New York 185: Freshwater Frenzy!

[lalaladucks]

I'll do them in separate posts.

Top 3 Town

Boonskiies
dragonspawn
Egg

Boon & dragon are here because of the Best Friends claim. I believe it.
Egg is reasonable and it looks like he genuinely has town motivations for scumhunting, although (as has already been mentioned) everyone needs to scumhunt in this setup so it's not necessarily an indicator of being town.
If they make good points which I agree with I would want to follow them, although if they're adamant about a scumread or townread which I disagree with I wouldn't want to follow them solely based on thinking they're on my side, although I would consider compromising. Whereas, I wouldn't consider compromising for people I think are scum.

[Titus]

A couple more questions I will put in spoilers here, answer these last. When you're done, you should have enough to be engaged with and have others enquire about your gut.

Spoiler: Final Questions

Your biggest townreads are off the major wagons. What does that tell you?
You have a lot of conflicted reads on the Ozgin wagon yet no clear read on him. Gun to head, what's your read? Would your read on his wagon changed based on his flip? If so, what can you do to sort him?

The names are academic. The idea is to get critical thinking going.

[Varsoon]

Titus, I'm glad you're engaging laladucks. I'd be a bit bothered if you were solely committed to a tunnel on Ozgin.

@House: Why the Ozgin vote?

I'm really worn out and will probably be taking it easy the next few days.
But I'm glad with where I am and I'm looking forward to Prolapsed coming back with content or getting lynched for it.

[lalaladucks]

Top 3 Scum

SilverWolf
FA_Q2
Bookitty

SW ~ her early vote on me was alright. But something about her posts just makes me uneasy, I can't really explain it.
FA_Q2 ~ I ISO'd him and just realised I've missed quite a few of his posts. Well... His case on me actually isn't terrible, even though his conclusion that I'm scum is incorrect. But the thing is, based on my shitty play so far I'm an easy target for a mislynch. In all of my completed games, scum has used that strategy as well. He's capitalising on my scummy sounding posting. FYI, just cause I sound scummy doesn't mean I'm scum, alright.
Bookitty ~ rawr guilty? Actually, I'm doubting my read on her looking through her ISO. If scum, she's really good. But it was based on weird feelings and yeah. That credibility...

[lalaladucks]

A couple more questions I will put in spoilers here, answer these last. When you're done, you should have enough to be engaged with and have others enquire about your gut.

ty Titus

Your biggest townreads are off the major wagons. What does that tell you?

I'm a sheepduck? Guess it could be interpreted as 'playing it safe' and not wanting to make waves, but

it's Day 1, we have no flips and I never know what's happening on the first day

. Oh, that sounds like excuses so I spoilered it >:{
I don't like the wagon on Ozgin.

You have a lot of conflicted reads on the Ozgin wagon yet no clear read on him. Gun to head, what's your read? Would your read on his wagon changed based on his flip? If so, what can you do to sort him?

I have a townread on Ozgin. Was considering putting him in the "next top 3 town reads" section but I felt the others I put there are more likely town (even though I think Ozgin's town). If he actually flipped scum though, my reads would be vastly different. But atm I think the 'slip' wasn't particularly bad. Definitely not as egregious as that street racer one. What can I do to sort Ozgin? Well, I think I have him sorted and I've put him in the Citizen pile (lol), despite how obvscum you guys think he is. So, I don't really have any loose ends I want him to tie up as such.

[RadiantCowbells]

Lalaladuck's last post triggered my scumdar.

[Aneninen]

(3) But okay,

let's ignore the whole color topic

. You say that I have fair points – basically, you're making excuses for your posts. Then you say that I didn't have a town Role PM.

If you REALLY thought so, you should have voted for me, instead of finding excuses all the time. You're simply making up things.

Meh. Don't feel like I wanna lynch you right now, but it made me suspicious of you. Also, no one else would want to lynch you so it'd be a pretty pointless vote.

You dodged my point.
If you think I didn't get a town-PM, you should think I'm scum. That's not a "being suspicious" thing, that's a "he's scum" thing.

@Anen, I am not voting anyone based on role PM stuff. Cool your jets k.

Okay, but. Not only consists my case of colors. But also, for example, the thing above.
And those were strange words from a player who's been scumreading someone becasue of a word in the role PM.

Top of Page 42. Silverwolf is trying too hard to defend Ozgin. Remember she was avoiding his wagon earlier. I'm going to take a hard look at Silverwolf if Ozgin flips scum.
Anyone voting Prolapsed for meta, have you also seen his town game?

Good point, the first one.
As for Prolapsed, no I haven't. What should I know about it?

Yeah, that's his spin. Yet that making him feel lonely in this game is absurdity. Lonely enough to claim citizen, hell no. I have never once seen someone go, gee I am not scum here, so I am lonely and claim VT. That's because it is retconned reasoning.

Actually claiming VT without reasons is never a good thing. (I don't know whether it's essentially scummy, I've seen VT-claiming VT's without good reasons before.) VT is actually the coolest thing you can have.

I am staying that Ozgin was trying to create a narrative and blundering badly as scum.
That 102 makes zero sense from town. His justification in 1116 strongly implies he knew about hoods. He is trying to use 180 as window dressing.

Where did he post it in 1116?
The being lonely is a thing I don't like at all. Why did he bring it up again, especially for you who's not in any Neighbourhood either?
Buuuuuuuuut, wait-oh, am I right? Did he just claim VT there?

The point was not that she does not have the time – I think that is an obvious fact due to her posting. She is, however, using that time in a VERY opportunistic manner. THAT is not something that I would think town would do or is good for town. She is coming up with scum reads, as far as I can tell, based entirely off the fact that a few others in the last few pages fingered them as scum. No reasoning, no comments as to why and not even stating it is a sheeping read. Notice that lala has entirely avoided explaining her scum reads as well. She is very focused on the color thing. Why? Not to defend herself – there is but one single player focused on that line of thought and it is not attracting more votes – but instead it is easy to do without creating associative tells or being inconsistent. Those reads and the avoidance of scum hunting are scum tells – not the fact that she has no time. The lack of time I was referring to is simply what corners her into revealing it while trying to look like she is town (and failing to do so).

Yeah, FA_Q2 sees the light!

Prolapsed, do you have day talk?

I do not, nor do I have night talk with anyone.

Pigeon poop.
It's in the Setup that scums have Daytalk. This answer makes zero sense.

Hmm. Prolapsed included night talk in his answer to me. Sounds like someone who doesn't realize the game has day talk. That's actually a town response.

It's easy to fake a response like that.

Don't blame you. His recent actions of defending Ozgin at all costs for no reason irk me. I had him marked in as my first candidate for Ozgin's partner.

This, and the previous posts about Varsoon/Ozgin.
Varsoon told that he would confirm Ozgin in either way. This, obviously, may or may not be true.
But I simply don't think they're partners. If they were, it would have been much better strategy for their scumteam to leave Ozgin alone, launch a Chainsaw or whatever.
In other words: if Varsoon is faking and telling that Ozgin's town... do you think they'll be still here at LyLo? It's Multiball. Even if we spare them, the other team/the SK can still Nightkill any of them. And if it happens, their whole story turns into pigeon poop after a scumflip from either of them.
(And before you ask: I don't like Ozgin at all. I simply think that he's not the best lynch Today.)

When there's trouble, you call DW. Welcome to the meat grinder, I'm going to run a jihad on all the scum here. Going to read the thread and report back.

Hi there!
Do you need a pigeon?

Sigh, Titus. Your push is bad, and it's not worthwhile fighting it anymore. I'm gonna work towards actual progress.
VOTE: ProlapsedBrain

Haven't caught up fully yet but I believe Ozgin is town. He feels very genuine guys, so I won't be participating in his lynch.
VOTE: Prolapsed
Probs scum.

And NOW I have problems with the Prolapsed wagon.

(Going on soon, stopped at after Page49.)

[Aneninen]

Sigh, Titus. Your push is bad, and it's not worthwhile fighting it anymore. I'm gonna work towards actual progress.
VOTE: ProlapsedBrain

My push is fine. Your ISO is full of contradictions, discredits and misrepresentations and you slipped. You are just pissed I caught you.
Oh lalala's wagon is dead, so you hitch onto Prolapsed. Not a surprise. There's not an original push in there.

>

Implying that I was on the lala wagon before I unvoted anyways

Yeah, you keep misrepping my votes. That'll get you far.

And that makes the things even worse. See one of my previous posts!

@Bookitty: Im not going to claim any more of my role until I get results.
I'll be able to clear Ozgin unless there's some block or something.

How about clearing someone else?

I slept for 24 hours. I might be depressed or something? I don't know, man.

General insomnia or certain chemicals might result the same too.

I'd rather avoid mislynching town if possible.
If it weren't for my soft, Ozgin would've already likely been lynched today.

Why is it superior for you to clear him instead of lynching him and clearing someone else?

I think Silver is scum based on what I think are the motivations behind her posts. I can't explain it well without going back and commenting on stuff but there's way too many posts and not enough time. Sorry, this reasoning sounds extemely sucky and I don't blame you if you don't get what I'm trying to say :/

Wow!
Hey, everyone! I've already seen the Yeti! I'd eagerly show the pictures of him I made but it would take too much time to search for them.

Top 3 Town

Boonskiies
dragonspawn
Egg

Top 3 Scum

SilverWolf
FA_Q2
Bookitty

Next 3 Town

House
Titus
Aneninen

Next 3 Scum

Taly
Kitz
Varsoon
Obviously I expect my town reads to be more accurate than the scumreads since there are twice as many town as scum.

Wait, what?
In 1110 you was suspicious of me and you just posted that I'm amonst your "Next 3 Town" reads?! How the f-ck was that possible?
BETWEEN THOSE TWO POSTS I WAS WRITING NOTHING AT ALL! YOU HAD ZERO REASON FOR CHANGING YOUR READS ON ME!

I'm REALLY sad that this lynch doesn't seem to happen.

By the way, the other reads... Boonie and DragonSpawn are Best Friends, therefore shall never get close to lynch at all, House outed a town-PR, Titus and Egg would never be wagoned. None of your scumreads were and are explained thoroughly, FA_Q2 is also an OMGUS, even if you said the opposite. The Taly-Kitz-Varsoon is a trio which is worth to shadow, many players have FoS-es on them.
1279 is crow poop. Including the spoiler. Exuses, appeases, things like those.

Lalaladuck's last post triggered my scumdar.

Good.

________

I'm really sad that Lalala is still not wagoned.

But, here's another question and sorry if I missed the answer for it during reading the last pages. Has Ozgin claimed VT or hard-hinted it?

[lalaladucks]

Wait, what?
In 1110 you was suspicious of me and you just posted that I'm amonst your "Next 3 Town" reads?! How the f-ck was that possible?
BETWEEN THOSE TWO POSTS I WAS WRITING NOTHING AT ALL! YOU HAD ZERO REASON FOR CHANGING YOUR READS ON ME!

It happened because I reflected on what you said. Saying that your role PM had a green border made me think you're a

different kind of town

. But I can stop town reading you of course, that reason doesn't really make too much sense.
Aneninen, either you don't know how to read me or you're scum.

By the way, the other reads... Boonie and DragonSpawn are Best Friends, therefore shall never get close to lynch at all, House outed a town-PR, Titus and Egg would never be wagoned. None of your scumreads were and are explained thoroughly, FA_Q2 is also an OMGUS, even if you said the opposite. The Taly-Kitz-Varsoon is a trio which is worth to shadow, many players have FoS-es on them.
1279 is crow poop. Including the spoiler. Exuses, appeases, things like those.

ffs, this game...

But, here's another question and sorry if I missed the answer for it during reading the last pages. Has Ozgin claimed VT or hard-hinted it?

He literally claimed plain Citizen and said he was lonely. Are you reading the thread?

[lalaladucks]

Happy Birthday angry pigeon poop person

[Varsoon]

@Anen: Has to be Ozgin because of reasons that I'm sure are already really obvious.
Hint: It's the Citizen Claim.
Another Hint: He did claim VT/Citizen.

[Bookitty]

I don't have a scumread on you, Varsoon. I don't know just why you'd think so. (Hint: if you can point to what makes you think so, I'd be grateful.)

Also, if you're soft claiming what I think you're soft claiming, it doesn't clear him. Think about it.

I did not think you were buddying me, which I think connotes scum; I thought you were reaching out to me based on past experience, which is alignment-neutral.

I'm good with a Lala lynch but I'm sticking with my Ozgin suspicions.

I have some pretty strong townreads but I'm not interested in sharing them right now because I prefer cross-kills if at all possible.

[Wake1]

VC this afternoon.

[Taly]

I like that Titus engaged with Lala a bit more efficiently than me and 80% other people here have. X_x

Similar to Lala, my reads would change quite a bit seeing Ozgins flip. I keep going back and forth on my read on Ozgin and it really isn't beneficial at this point.

Looking at the VC in 1272

As much as I'm not really townreading Lala, either. Looking at the Prolapsed and Ozgin wagons.

Prolapsed

- I've said this before and I stand by it, this guy looks like mislynch bait. He may not have done any shit so far but the idea that he is at L-5 is a bit concerning - especially since people call him scum before his catch-up post.

I'm not really happy with Prolapsed either, and seeing his flip either way means nothing to me, wouldn't change reads, or current thought-process. He hasn't contributed much if any content. Lynching him D1 would just be PL.

If anything, if he doesn't start actually playing the game before we lynch someone today, or D2 - then I might start seeing why people are voting him. But right now? No.

Ozgin

- A lot of why I don't like the wagon is how it actually formed, and who all jumped on it. But that's not something to keep me from voting or thinking Ozgins actions haven't been at least somewhat scummy. However, the idea that Titus and other people seem to be tunneling him for this long makes me want to see Ozgins flip more.

But, I can't take Varsoons softcrumb over checking Ozgin tonight to be 100% true... There's been way too many claims this D1.

I keep going back and forth on my Ozgin read as well, so seeing his flip would bring good clarity and info.

Ozgin has been through hell this game, so his behavior is understandable... But if I look at it from face-value... It's pretty anti-town.

Gun to my head, with no emotions involved?

VOTE: Ozgin

1)

Seeing his flip would be much more fruitful for us to see.

2)

It'd give me a better clue on my town and scum reads. Since I'm vaguely uncertain on most of them.

3)

Ozgin has not done much other than defending himself and talking about the people who has pushed him.

4)

This lynch would actually change this game state I mean... This game hasn't evolved much from about 20 pages ago.

5)

Really not in favor of Ozgins attitude.

Ozgin, if you're town - then I'm sincerely sorry.

Titus, I'm going to have a few issues with you if Ozgin flips town. :/

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Please take note of my V/LA until the 23rd.

I'm going to come back later and read and post because otherwise I'm going to get way too far behind with the speed of this game right now. I won't be able to do much for awhile but I'll see about putting in an hour's worth or so later today or this evening.

[SilverWolf]

@lala-Please explain why you are voting for Prolapsed and say he's probs scum but he's not in any of your scumreads in your latest reads list.

[House]

Note for Taly:

You are right, I do have 4 abilities. Ask yourself what you think my 4th is, and why I may have been unwilling to share it.

Now wait a minute. Stop reading right now. Go back to the last light and let it marinate in your cranium.

...

......

.........

............

No. Keep thinking on it.

...

......

.........

............

COGITATE MOAR BRAH

...

......

.........

............

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once you've chewed on that for a bit, here's another question:

What is the pro-town motivation in pointing out the unorthodox number of abilities in my claim?

[House]

light = line


fucking sigh

[House]

Hints for the pro-rolefishers to make things interesting:

1) I had to resist the urge to use it on dragonspawn (and now Taly)
2) It does not involve weapons of any kind.

[Aneninen]

Wait, what?
In 1110 you was suspicious of me and you just posted that I'm amonst your "Next 3 Town" reads?! How the f-ck was that possible?
BETWEEN THOSE TWO POSTS I WAS WRITING NOTHING AT ALL! YOU HAD ZERO REASON FOR CHANGING YOUR READS ON ME!

It happened because I reflected on what you said. Saying that your role PM had a green border made me think you're a

different kind of town

. But I can stop town reading you of course, that reason doesn't really make too much sense.
Aneninen, either you don't know how to read me or you're scum.

But I wasn't talking about color snow. I was talking about your read progression which had made no sense.
The last sentence makes zero sense in this Setup.

Happy Birthday angry pigeon poop person

Thanks a lot!
I'm not angry, by the way. I'm just scumreading you.

@Anen: Has to be Ozgin because of reasons that I'm sure are already really obvious.
Hint: It's the Citizen Claim.
Another Hint: He did claim VT/Citizen.

Call me dumb but I can't see a scenario in which your

only

usefulness is that you could confirm only Ozgin and noone else.
(Why did I ask about the VT-claim? Easy: I was misreading something earlier. I thought you had posted that Ozgin might have a town-PR. My fault.)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ozgin

But I'm still sad that there's no Lalala-wagon. Should there be, I'd join immediately.

________

House.
You don't have to talk about your abilities at all. Or at least, I'm buying it.
However, you may think about whether you need some protection or not. If so, I have an idea and I'll post it later. (Before anyone starts speculating: I simply hope that we've got something protective among the 14 townies.)

[dragonspawn]

Top 3 Town

Boonskiies
dragonspawn
Egg

Top 3 Scum

SilverWolf
FA_Q2
Bookitty

Next 3 Town

House
Titus
Aneninen

Next 3 Scum

Taly
Kitz
Varsoon

Obviously I expect my town reads to be more accurate than the scumreads since there are twice as many town as scum.

how come prolapsed isn't on your scum list when you are voting for him?

[Titus]

Oh don't get me wrong, I am still 100 percent committed to voting Ozgin. That doesn't mean I have to be antitown as fuck about it.

House, here's to hoping what I think your saying is what I think you are. If so, thank you.

Taly, I think you know I am town regardless but Ozgin's scum so yeah.

[dragonspawn]

@lala-Please explain why you are voting for Prolapsed and say he's probs scum but he's not in any of your scumreads in your latest reads list.

looks like we had similar thoughts

[Ozgin]

I doubt you missed anything - you said they were voting him for meta. I think that is rather weak considering that there is no content in his posts. They might not be stating they are voting him as a PL but that is the way

I

see those votes.

Bit of Both. Prolapsed is a lurker. That's the policy.
Prolapsed has a history of lurking as scum. That's a meta argument.

Still it sucks when we have someone who claimed scum in thread and scum are flailing to get any sort of counterwagon going.

I'm not scum though, and I never claimed such.

1) Seeing his flip would be much more fruitful for us to see.
2) It'd give me a better clue on my town and scum reads. Since I'm vaguely uncertain on most of them.
3) Ozgin has not done much other than defending himself and talking about the people who has pushed him.
4) This lynch would actually change this game state I mean... This game hasn't evolved much from about 20 pages ago.
5) Really not in favor of Ozgins attitude.

Ozgin, if you're town - then I'm sincerely sorry.

Titus, I'm going to have a few issues with you if Ozgin flips town. :/

1) Fair enough.
2) Pretty much the same as 1, but still fair enough.
3) I strongly disagree, I've provided some reads. I'll post a full readslist before I'm lynched, if it comes to that.
4) I think any lynch would change the gamestate, because if I survive I'll be cleared tomorrow and a townbloc can form pretty easily around me.
5) I can understand not being in favor of my attitude in the early pages of this game, but I don't think my attitude is that bad at this point.

I accept your apology in advance.

Don't have issues with Titus when I flip Citizen

because I flip Citizen

. Heres why:

1 - People make mistakes, Titus is making a big one right now.
2 - Titus is playing with strong conviction, and it can be a powerful scumhunting tool when not used on a Citizen.
3 - There are a few people who are a little more scummy (see Bookitty, Kitz, etc.)

Also, let me ask you - If you understand my bahavior...

Ozgin has been through hell this game, so his behavior is understandable... But if I look at it from face-value... It's pretty anti-town.

Then don't let that be a reason to advocate my lynch (as per point 5 in your list of reasons).

I'm gonna work on building my final readslist for the day, as at this point I've conceded that my death is fairly probable, and in any event I don't want to fuck town any more than I have by making this game a stagnant argument over my citizen claim and dying, thus lowering the townpool. In other words, I'm gonna try to actually be useful this day, as opposed to what I've been doing up to this point.

[Ozgin]

Welp, I apparently am bad at impromptu quoting mechanisms. Sorry Taly, lol.