Star Trek Deep Space Nine Season 1 Mafia(game over!)

[zabing12]

Cool, welcome back zabing! What do you think of the peeps on your wagon?

And yeah, figures as much. I guess there was a way for Monkey to answer LQ effectively after all.

I think they have a perfectly wrong reason to suspect me other than jumping on a bandwagon.

Why do you think that I'm scum, peacebringer, rip, and Nero?

Can you guys please answer me?

[ChannelDelibird]

Vigs should by all means feel free to off LQ Tonight, but I'd rather aim to lynch scum Today.

Channel

, why has your viewpoint on this changed?

That was before he claimed. His claim necessitates his lynch.

[PeregrineV]

At the top of page 35, but it seems that Lickety has claimed Beloved Prince as Gene "The Rod" Rodenberry? And people want to lynch him for this?

For something else?

I would like to find it in the next 10 pages.....

[PeaceBringer]

PeaceBringer was also scum, on my team, in that game I linked to.

I'm seeing many similarities. What's up with that, PeeBee?

interaction level is not tied to role in most case for me...
but currently at a saturation level of games and nothing has got me into this game...
If I get run up for lack of antagonstic engagement or poking for reaction, well, it would be what it is...

[PeaceBringer]

zabing for me you were a counter wagon for someone I thought was clearly town, nothing more, nothing less...

[Hostile Intent]

No that's basically it, Per5.

Fair shout, PeeBee. We shall incite riots on the morrow.

[PeregrineV]

No that's basically it, Per5.

Fair shout, PeeBee. We shall incite riots on the morrow.

Then that's dumb.

1. Death by lynch gives scum 2 extra nightkills.
2. Death by NK only give them 1 extra NK.
3. He's got 250+ posts. If I go back, am I going to find a REALLY high fluff/content ratio? I doubt it.


But, I'll keep reading, but preliminary on Liquety lynch is

NO BUENO

.

[Sinsun1]

1. Death by lynch gives scum 2 extra nightkills.
2. Death by NK only give them 1 extra NK.
3. He's got 250+ posts. If I go back, am I going to find a REALLY high fluff/content ratio? I doubt it.

1. So does hoping a vig does it and if vig does not exist, refuses to or somehow cannot kill LQ then they get those two extra night kills with MORE information on who our PRs are.
2. Again, if he is town BP, they'd leave him for a while until they wanted two quick night kills. Probably JUST before we reach LYLO.
3. I'd say 9:1 fluff:content ratio. That's being generous.

But since you just admitted to skipping most of Day 1, do you really want Day 2 to be the same with him in it? If so, I question your motives for wanting it to be filled with posts by LQ. Also for skipping most of Day 1 by admitting to not reading all of it (by not knowing the fluff:content ratio results) I would say your opinion on this lynch is invalid. Read the full day before throwing out garbage like this and read the reasons people have given for lynching LQ to be beneficial either way he flips.

[Hostile Intent]

Your doubts are bad and you should feel bad, Per5.

Zoibderg.jpg

[Narninian]

No that's basically it, Per5.

Fair shout, PeeBee. We shall incite riots on the morrow.

Then that's dumb.

1. Death by lynch gives scum 2 extra nightkills.
2. Death by NK only give them 1 extra NK.
3. He's got 250+ posts. If I go back, am I going to find a REALLY high fluff/content ratio? I doubt it.


But, I'll keep reading, but preliminary on Liquety lynch is

NO BUENO

.

Its not it;
We (well I at least, and some others) also believe he is scum. The gene roddenberry claim is just not something I can buy.
Post count should not be a lynch save.

I don't agree with your "2" extra nightkills vs 1 extra nightkill logic. His death (whether its at night or day) will give them 1 extra night kill

*IF*

he is town.
Sure they don't have to kill him, which means they can kill somebody else - but thats not an extra nightkill, its still the lynch that killed him.

[davesaz]

It took about an hour of reading to catch up, over 2 days time.

I think Senator is making too much of Titus's entry. But I'm definitely not assuming Titus is town given the circumstances of the replace along with Jeanne's meta.

Thanks for the link to the Matrix14 game. I knew I'd seen HI's play recently but had not linked that one in my wiki. I see a fairly good chance that HI rolled scum again.

Senator rubs me the wrong way at times, but seems town motivated here.
I always have trouble with reading Nero, have to say null requires re-read.
I never did like the wagon on zabing, tend to think coming back is a very weak lean town which will need to be weighed against future posting.
RIP's posting is a mixture of misguided and scummy but the motivation seems town.
UNVOTE: RIP

Back up a little on the LQ claim. Scum could make this claim in hopes that (a) discussing it will distract town from real scumhunting and (b) town will be afraid to lynch the role and give the player more nights to work with. A scum making this claim will also divert doc saves from actual town PRs. But LQ made it after the discussion of the miller claim, and says he did so in direct response to a comment that negative town roles should be outed early.

Gene as flavor is certainly possible, if unlikely, looking at a "flavor first" approach. If you're a fan, you know that "based on Star Trek created by Gene Roddenberry" appeared for years afterwards. The name is definitely there. But he's not a

character

.

If you take the approach of "if I had a Beloved role what flavor would I give it", then Gene does make sense. But someone said they are DS9, the station itself. Narn in 17. Wouldn't that also make sense for a BP?

Might it have inspired a fake claim

?

Regarding the video: A mod posting a video to influence the outcome would be IMO grounds for stopping the game and perhaps even bannable -- so I have to assume this is not the reason. Maybe he meant to put a VC there and didn't follow through.

Spoiler: Beloved theory details

Regarding the BP role in a vacuum, I have not encountered one before and don't have any idea if this role has a reputation or what the meta is on using it. From a pure mathematics point of view, both town PR and scum get a 2nd night. Triggering that early maximizes the number of alive PRs to do something, and minimizes the information. But N1 shots are always blind anyway, aside from the D1 reads. What matters is the effect on N2 shots. Town get info from their N1 actions to guide their N2, but don't have info from other town to guide them. Scum are deprived of both the town/town interaction and trying to run someone up to a claim D2 so they get less information from the skipped day.

I'm fairly certain that early game is the best time to trigger BP for town assuming major PR's aren't already outed, later game is best for scum. I'm not going to go to the trouble of simulating outcomes to get actual percentages. I'm a software architect by trade and have an extremely good feel for this type of thing.

OK, having worked that all out (and taken close to an hour to write this post) I've come to the conclusion that it's best to lynch LQ. Either the claim is fake and we get scum, or it's real and it's still better math for town because town PR's get consecutive nights too.
VOTE: LQ

[LicketyQuickety]

3. I'd say 9:1 fluff:content ratio. That's being generous.

Yeah, no.

[LicketyQuickety]

Its clear to me that Sinsun1 has no idea what they are doing when they spit out those 'numbers'. Just stop with the numbers shit man, you're terrible at it. Its not even accurate. Now if you actually have calculated anything that's another story... but you haven't.

[PeregrineV]

No that's basically it, Per5.

Fair shout, PeeBee. We shall incite riots on the morrow.

Then that's dumb.

1. Death by lynch gives scum 2 extra nightkills.
2. Death by NK only give them 1 extra NK.
3. He's got 250+ posts. If I go back, am I going to find a REALLY high fluff/content ratio? I doubt it.


But, I'll keep reading, but preliminary on Liquety lynch is

NO BUENO

.

Its not it;
We (well I at least, and some others) also believe he is scum. The gene roddenberry claim is just not something I can buy.
Post count should not be a lynch save.

I don't agree with your "2" extra nightkills vs 1 extra nightkill logic. His death (whether its at night or day) will give them 1 extra night kill

*IF*

he is town.
Sure they don't have to kill him, which means they can kill somebody else - but thats not an extra nightkill, its still the lynch that killed him.

If he is town and Beloved Prince, and lynched, scum will kill at night 2 town players. (2 NKs on town that are not Lickety)
If he is town and Beloved Prince, and killed at night by scum, scum will gain an extra night to kill another town player. (1 NK on town that is not Lickety)
I clarified it, so tell me again how you do not agree with this logic. And specifically what part.

[davesaz]

Lynch town. Scum NK Lickety and one other player. Or worse, scum NK one other town and leave Lickety alive, which gives a higher probability of hitting a PR later.
Lynch Lickety as town. Scum NK two other players.
3 town either way.

If we could be certain of lynching scum, then another lynch is better.
If we try to lynch someone else and it turns out to be a PR, we get a claim and then have to switch. The claim is good for scum.

[Senator]

So you're going to settle for lynching toen because you're afraid to hunt scum?

[PeregrineV]

1. Death by lynch gives scum 2 extra nightkills.
2. Death by NK only give them 1 extra NK.
3. He's got 250+ posts. If I go back, am I going to find a REALLY high fluff/content ratio? I doubt it.

1. So does hoping a vig does it and if vig does not exist, refuses to or somehow cannot kill LQ then they get those two extra night kills with MORE information on who our PRs are.
2. Again, if he is town BP, they'd leave him for a while until they wanted two quick night kills. Probably JUST before we reach LYLO.
3. I'd say 9:1 fluff:content ratio. That's being generous.

But since you just admitted to skipping most of Day 1, do you really want Day 2 to be the same with him in it? If so, I question your motives for wanting it to be filled with posts by LQ. Also for skipping most of Day 1 by admitting to not reading all of it (by not knowing the fluff:content ratio results) I would say your opinion on this lynch is invalid. Read the full day before throwing out garbage like this and read the reasons people have given for lynching LQ to be beneficial either way he flips.

Have no fear, I'll read forward and backward, but initial indication is that Lickety is not a good lynch for today.

[Narninian]

IF he is town and Beloved prince and they kill him. They will get 2 night kills, LQ + 1 other town.
If he is town and beloved prince and we lynch him. They will get 2 nights kills (2 other town members).

The extra kill you're referring to is our lynch, not a nightkill.
So in summary we if we lynch a town person, a town person dies. This is not an extra nightkill for scum, its just a myslynch. Obviously we want to avoid mislynches, but if I was convinced LQ was town, I would be more willing to entertain holding off on his lynch. I *still* think its better he dies earlier than later if he's town though.

This is admittedly a silly argument and semantics but you brought up 'extra nightkill' which isn't a thing that is going to happen from lynching vs death at night.

[LicketyQuickety]

So far I see nothing talking about 3p in this game and how that works with my lynch and that is a little bit scary.

[PeregrineV]

If Monkeyman posted a video of the credits as a way to remind us about Roddenberry then I'm replacing out because

fuck that

.

However, I'm still calling bullshit on Roddenberry as a character in this game, on LQ as actually being a BP, and on any time other than now being the correct time to get rid of such an awkward claim and distracting player.

No one said roles have to be a character in the show. Look at the sample PM, it's the actual station.

Plus, we just finished a game with a town Beloved Prince, whom you rode to victory because he was an easy mislynch. It doesn't seem like Lickety will go down that easy, so you look to be pushing even harder on him.

[davesaz]

@Senator
No. If we hit scum it would clearly be better. If I had a

strong

scum read, I'd definitely pursue it.

If he's a BP he must be eliminated before LYLO-1. If he's alive the night before LYLO, scum win. Scum will only kill him if they know they have a tactical advantage in doing so at that time, because later in the game is better for them. We want our PRs to get their actions before scum pick them off. Mathematically it's better to get it over with earlier. I know that you know that I'm very good at that aspect of things. And this isn't at all like the previous game where my analysis required rational actions by scum. There is only one optimum way to proceed for each side, it depends on whether we have the guts to do the right thing.

I also happen to believe there is a fair chance the claim is fake.

Pedit: The same argument goes for 3p -- it is also better for 3p if the BP dayskip comes later.

[Sinsun1]

This is admittedly a silly argument and semantics but you brought up 'extra nightkill' which isn't a thing that is going to happen from lynching vs death at night.

Here's another thing as well. Our cop gets an "extra" investigation. Our Doc gets an "extra" save. Our Bodyguard or whomever else gets an "extra" of their actions. So the logic they keep trying to push is so flawed. Right now they can use that "extra" use without worrying about being READ as town PR or being OUTED as town PR to scum.

[PeregrineV]

IF he is town and Beloved prince and they kill him. They will get 2 night kills, LQ + 1 other town.
If he is town and beloved prince and we lynch him. They will get 2 nights kills (2 other town members).

In the first sentence, a total of 2 town players are dead.

In the second sentence, a total of 3 town players are dead.

The extra kill you're referring to is our lynch, not a nightkill.
So in summary we if we lynch a town person, a town person dies. This is not an extra nightkill for scum, its just a myslynch. Obviously we want to avoid mislynches, but if I was convinced LQ was town, I would be more willing to entertain holding off on his lynch. I *still* think its better he dies earlier than later if he's town though.

This is admittedly a silly argument and semantics but you brought up 'extra nightkill' which isn't a thing that is going to happen from lynching vs death at night.

Our lynch is the only thing that *could* hit scum, but you are arguing that we should waste it on town.
I think that if scum want him dead that bad, let them do it, which minimizes the ADDITIONAL KILL they would get from the extra night.

[davesaz]

No one said roles have to be a character in the show. Look at the sample PM, it's the actual station.

Traditionally, the sample PM is a role which

cannot

be in the game. If it were plausible for the game, it might give unintended clues to mechanic.
This actually bolsters the idea that roles are characters, not things. For example I would not expect the wormhole or Bajor or the shuttlecraft to be a role either.

Pedit: Sinsun gets my point.

Pedit2: You're assuming the lynch is the only thing that can hit scum. What about 2 chances to cop someone? What about vigs? Town has PRs which get an extra shot too.

[davesaz]

EBWOP -- not calling Gene a "thing". But he's still not a character.