Mini 1653: A Game of Pokes - game over

[massive]

But if you can't honestly say that, then I have no reason to trust that you wouldn't bus vikingfan here.

If you think I would bus vikingfan in this situation, do you also think I would present a comprehensive case on his scummy behavior during the Randomidget shooting fiasco? If you think I would bus vikingfan here, how do you feel about being the (arguably) person paying attention and having a legit reason to vote randomidget? If you want a busser, it's FA (see 1029) who is happily jumping on your bad argument.

And the answer is, of course I bus buddies as scum. Everybody busses. Which is why it's a ridiculous question. The question you want, if it's a legitimate question, is "have I ever lynched a scumbuddy" and the answer to that is no. My games list is in my wiki entry.

[Randomnamechange]

That isn't what he said though. He said it wasn't worth bussing for town credit. If a player on your team was guaranteed to be lynched and you couldn't save them it could still be acceptable to bus.

[FA_Q2]

But if you can't honestly say that, then I have no reason to trust that you wouldn't bus vikingfan here.

If you think I would bus vikingfan in this situation, do you also think I would present a comprehensive case on his scummy behavior during the Randomidget shooting fiasco? If you think I would bus vikingfan here, how do you feel about being the (arguably) person paying attention and having a legit reason to vote randomidget? If you want a busser, it's FA (see 1029) who is happily jumping on your bad argument.

And the answer is, of course I bus buddies as scum. Everybody busses. Which is why it's a ridiculous question. The question you want, if it's a legitimate question, is "have I ever lynched a scumbuddy" and the answer to that is no. My games list is in my wiki entry.

Nice attempt to deflect this to me. That is about as scummy as it gets and reminds me of something that my scum mate in my very first newb game (the one and only game I have drawn scum on this site) here told me to do. He stated to answer any arguments that I was scum with exactly what you just did: no I am not scummy but this guy over here…

And it is a lie at that; I didn’t jump on his reasons. I had my own and I stated why. The ONLY reason that I had not scum read Viking this game was because his play was very close to another game I played with him where he was a PR and I thought that he had crumbed that role. Then that proved a misstep and he was the best lynch candidate.

[massive]

"Not a PR" is not a reason to vote someone.

[Aristophanes]

"Not a PR" is not a reason to vote someone.

IIRC he had other reasons. May be wrong though, have to read back. Will have a full post soon.

[Aristophanes]

@Fitz
How is your opening post unhelpful?
Well, it spins extraneous theory on a non-event. Nothing happened, which means a protection/block of sorts, or that scum nokilled. That's all we know from the night.
The whole thing about Random not using his shot does not help in the least since he had no shot and announced so. We all assumed he had no shot anyway, no? I did, because that's not sitemeta and he assumed from an offsite game that is merely similar to Mafia. Why would you assume he had his shot still?

You filled it with "Ifs" and "probables" which shows me you didn't want to commit to a Random townread despite everything pointing to such right now.

Basically, I read it as noncommital wine based on other wine that has already been addressed as a nonthing (Random having a shot still).

Speaking of which....that is what I was doing when I read through viking. I looked at each of his posts and gave my initial reaction to them (if one was warranted). Having not been on my radar the entire game...he deserved a closer look. And I did find some questionable things in his posting but not enough to overcome what I was seeing from random.

Speaking of which....my post on random was not a line by line ISO read like I did on viking. It was an ISO read on myself trying to summarize the things I had found suspect towards random. And having spent most of the 1st two days trying to get random lynched...I did not feel the need to do a read through similar to the one I did on viking because I was more in tune with my opinion of random's play. So my viking readthrough and my random summary WOULD look completely different. I said I would be summarizing...you call it cherrypicking. Nice negative spin where none is deserved.

So, you reviewed Viking to see if he warranted a change in your reads, but you reviewed Random to push your case on him rather than to see if he warranted a change in reads?
Meaning you were pushing your read rather than actually reviewing him.
Meaning you missed his post about the shot because you were only looking for scummy things from him.
Tell me when I start to stray from the truth, because this is what I'm seeing. Why were you so against possibly changing your read on him?

Could you give your cases for the 3 scumspects you have? (Myself, Kop, and FA)

I suspect them because they haven't said or done anything that I'd expect them not to say or do as scum.

This is a horrible argument.
From what I gather, everyone else is a townread then, and they are Null, thus the closest to a scumread you have?

I'm not satisfied with that. If Formerfish was town that wanted Kop lynched instead of vikingfan, how would you have expected him to react differently?

I'd expect less annoyance and more inquisitiveness. This was not the case.

"Not a PR" is not a reason to vote someone.

IIRC he had other reasons. May be wrong though, have to read back. Will have a full post soon.

I was incorrect. FA, you had townreads on Viking throughout the game and stated dislike for his wagon. Was the townread solely based on thinking he'd crumbed a PR? You barely addressed him at all the whole game.
In the reread, 475 stuck out to me. It reads as "He's scummy, but he was like that last time as town too, so it's cool."
Iso FA and search "Viking".
Looks a lot more like scumbuddying than I had previously realized and like he had to vote him having built up the potential fakeclaim too much.
1005 almost looks like he tried to remind Viking he'd missed his chance to fakeclaim his crumbed role. The VT claim was tacked on to the end of the post in question, making it easily missed. I think this could be a slip of sorts.

So, I think I've talked myself into this.
VOTE: FAQ

[Aristophanes]

Also, I believe that's L-2

[FA_Q2]

Also, I believe that's L-2

Yes, that is L-2 and I am fucking town. Have not done anything that would make me scummy this game but what the hell – lynch me and regret it. This game is getting annoying.

[FA_Q2]

At least go after fits when I flip town - his push was scummy as hell and no one is even looking at it.

[Wickedestjr]

If you think I would bus vikingfan in this situation, do you also think I would present a comprehensive case on his scummy behavior during the Randomidget shooting fiasco?

Yes, that would not surprise me. Following the crowd, alone, would serve no benefit to you.

If you think I would bus vikingfan here, how do you feel about being the (arguably) person paying attention and having a legit reason to vote randomidget?

I'm sorry, I don't know what you're asking here...

If you want a busser, it's FA (see 1029) who is happily jumping on your bad argument.

Sounds good (but that doesn't make you town), you should vote for him.

And the answer is, of course I bus buddies as scum. Everybody busses. Which is why it's a ridiculous question. The question you want, if it's a legitimate question, is "have I ever lynched a scumbuddy" and the answer to that is no. My games list is in my wiki entry.

What specifically do you mean when you say "lynched a scum buddy" ?

[Wickedestjr]

"Not a PR" is not a reason to vote someone.

This seems like a misrep.

[Wickedestjr]

I suspect them because they haven't said or done anything that I'd expect them not to say or do as scum.

This is a horrible argument.
From what I gather, everyone else is a townread then, and they are Null, thus the closest to a scumread you have?

Pretty much - they've flown under the radar for most of this game and I think there's a reason why. I'm much better at finding townies than I am at catching scum. So I rely on the first to accomplish the latter.

[massive]

If you think I would bus vikingfan in this situation, do you also think I would present a comprehensive case on his scummy behavior during the Randomidget shooting fiasco?

Yes, that would not surprise me. Following the crowd, alone, would serve no benefit to you.

For the sake of argument, why are two voters on the wagon of a now-confirmed scum more suspicious than two voters on the counterwagon to said scum?

If you think I would bus vikingfan here, how do you feel about being the (arguably) person paying attention and having a legit reason to vote randomidget?

I'm sorry, I don't know what you're asking here...

Confused idgets. Should say "legit reason to vote vikingfan." For reference: Does 1019 look like the work put forth by a scum bussing his buddy?

If you want a busser, it's FA (see 1029) who is happily jumping on your bad argument.

Sounds good (but that doesn't make you town), you should vote for him.

And I will. There's no reason to hurry through today when we still need to find his buddy.

And the answer is, of course I bus buddies as scum. Everybody busses. Which is why it's a ridiculous question. The question you want, if it's a legitimate question, is "have I ever lynched a scumbuddy" and the answer to that is no. My games list is in my wiki entry.

What specifically do you mean when you say "lynched a scum buddy" ?

I mean "voted to lynch a scum buddy." What other interpretation is there?

"Not a PR" is not a reason to vote someone.

This seems like a misrep.

You should really be better about looking it up. Or maybe you've already seen 1029 and think it means something else?

[Formerfish]

Prod received. Sorry guys lot of shit came up in a very short time. I should be here tonight.

[Iknal]

Vote Count 4.2

FA_Q2(3): randomidget, Wickedestjr, Aristophanes
Formerfish(1):Kop
havingfitz(1): FA_Q2

Not Voting(3): Formerfish, havingfitz, massive

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 11/06/2015 1930 UTC +10
(expired on 2015-06-11 19:30:00)

[Randomnamechange]

I thibk we should lymch fa today, fitz tomorrow if he is town, and then FF or aristo if he is scum.

[massive]

Random

: Can you talk to me a little about your Wickedest townread? I'm not saying I disagree, I just would like a sanity check.

[Kop]

VOTE: Fa

Time to claim me thinks.

[Kop]

L1

[Randomnamechange]

Random

: Can you talk to me a little about your Wickedest townread? I'm not saying I disagree, I just would like a sanity check.

Lot of content early on, I don't see scum bussing that hard at that point in the game (day 2/3).

[havingfitz]

I am so pissed...I had this long post put together Monday afternoon
and wasn't done yet so I emailed it to myself and low and behold when
I went to finish and post it this morning....the intertubes had ate
it.  Here is a slightly rushed take two:

It was/is a closer look at FA from my pov starting at his Post 1109
and working backwards.

In Post 1109 FA claims to have explained his
accusations that my case suspicions towards random were "contrived as
hell." yesterday (D3).

Looking bad at D3 I do not see this explanation.  He also says my
suspicions towards random "made a bit of sense" before viking flipped
scum and that it looks like I was pushing an alternative wagon.  So as
scum, why stay as the lone push on the random wagon when I could have
brought Kop to L-1 or just bussed viking for cred.  And if I was scum
going solo on random....ergo random is telling the truth and is
probably a vig as he has claimed...why wouldn't I have killed him N3
since I stated previously that I seriously doubted viking and random
were the same alignment?  Hmmmmm?

In Post 1099 FA casts suspicions towards Kop.
Insinuating viking might have been bussing. (noted)

In Post 1099 FA still thinks I am scum for my
"contrived a hell" case on random.  Which when asked to clarify he
claims later (see above) to have done so D3.

A long D3 summary of my earlier random suspicions.

In Post 1051 FA says my position towards viking
"Makes sense."  Nice to see he understand where I'm coming from (until
D4 at least)

In Post 984 I ask FA why is ignoring my
clarifications on my case on random.  And why radom is a town read.
He doesn't ever respond to this post.

I will say this....part of FA's suspicions towards me have/were based
on the fact I suspected random and that since viking and random were
most likely NOT scum buddies...that I should have been defending
viking more strongly.  This is part of the bit I explained that he
later said made sense.  HOWEVER...if FA suscribes to this logic...i.e.
uses it againt me...

how does FA explain

the fact that until
viking claimed vanilla town in Post 1004...he was under the impression
viking was town (for the perceived tracker claim) and therefore should
have been more open to other's suspicions of random...or at the very
least not giving other people crap for suspecting random.

In Post 980 FA says he has no issue with me pushing
random...which I do not think is accurate....rather he says I am
pushing a PL on rando and provides this quote, 'don't want him around
in LYLO.' along with saying I am ignoring random's actual alignment.

I never mention policy lynching anyone.  AND...I never make the quote
'don't want him around in LYLO.'  FYI FA, quoting is when you use what
was actually said by another person.  Concocting a quote and using it
to strengthen your position on someone is scummy as hell.  Also...is
this the D3 contrived as hell explanation you were referring to FA?
Because I see nothing else D3 that explains your comments towards me?

In Post 972 FA claims I am going after random
"(without consideration as to weather or not he is actually
town)"...this is not true as I explicitly point out to him earlier in
Post 959.

In Post 947 FA says he has no issue with me pushing
random...which I do not think is accurate....rather he says I am
pushing a PL on rando and provides this quote, 'don't want her around
in LYLO.' along with saying I am ignoring random's actual alignment.

As I said earlier in this post...I never mention policy lynching
anyone.  AND...I never make the quote 'don't want her around in LYLO.'
Concocting a quote and using it to strengthen your position on
someone is scummy as hell.  Also...is this the D3 contrived as hell
explanation you were referring to FA?  Because I still see nothing
else D3 that explains your comments towards me?  And I answer this
accusation in Post 959. which FA seems to dismiss.

Also in Post 947 FA says he has no idea what
alignment random is and that random is an enigma.  If FA has no strong
sense that random is town (despite random's claim)....and if he thinks
viking is a claimed tracker at this point (which he does)...why does
he have issue with others suspecting random and WHY does FA no defend
viking more vehemently (aka at all)?  If he thinks viking is a claimed
tracker and he is not sure what alignment random is...he should be
fighting against viking getting to L-1 and be open to suspicions
towards random.  The extent of his defense of viking on D3 is to say
he doesn't like the viking wagon when it gets to L-2. Way to commit.

In Post 938 FA exhibits the first suspicions towards
me in response to me asking the mod to prod him.  This is the first
mention from FA of my "lack of case on random" despite

In Post 842 (near end of D2) FA says to random, "This
is bad – very bad. I really do not trust a damn thing you say.  You
come up with the worst excuses for things."  This does not sound like
a comment from someone who would opposes suspcions towards random.

In Post 759 FA casts suspicions towards Kop. This
combined with the later suspicions towards Kop seem odd given he has
never placed a vote on Kop once in this game.

********************************************

Long tr/dr:

FA consistently ignores points I made towards random and attributed my
suspcions of him solely on the basis of not wanting him in
LYLO...which is not the case at all.  And my suspicions are clearly
not contrived as denounced by FA.

His suspicions of me based on playing my independent thoughts towards
random and viking against each other while at the same time not doing
the same thing wrt his suspicions towards viking and random do not add
up.

VCA points to him being a strong candidate as scum.   Only three
players were on the D1 mislynch and the D2 mislynch.  Me, FA and
wicked.  I have wicked as town and I know I am so fmpov if there were
two scum on the Monkey/Oka combo...FA is it.

I'm behind a page or two as I finish this up offline so I will catch
up and put a vote down by tomorrow at the latest (due to very busy RL
schedule tonight).

[Aristophanes]

Yup, definitely time for a claim FA.

Fitz, nice wall.

Kop, would you mind saying something other than just a vote?
Your activity level is eerily low.

Also wouldn't mind hearing Fish's take on all this before we hammer, so can we hold off for now?

[Iknal]

Vote Count 4.3

FA_Q2(4): randomidget, Wickedestjr, Aristophanes, Kop
havingfitz(1): FA_Q2

Not Voting(3): Formerfish, havingfitz, massive

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 11/06/2015 1930 UTC +10
(expired on 2015-06-11 19:30:00)

[Kop]

Yup, definitely time for a claim FA.

Fitz, nice wall.

Kop, would you mind saying something other than just a vote?
Your activity level is eerily low.

Also wouldn't mind hearing Fish's take on all this before we hammer, so can we hold off for now?

I'm trying to keep up with activity, seeing he is the best vote, but finding it hard to make a thoughtful post to my thoughts on other bits as I am dealing with a family bereavement at the minute.

[havingfitz]

I'd like to hear what massive and fish's thoughts are.

FA....got claim?