Mini 1653: A Game of Pokes - game over

[massive]

I started to read FA's ISO and got pulled into a more detailed read. So I'm around and working.

[Wickedestjr]

Will try to get to this tonight.

[FA_Q2]

I'd like to hear what massive and fish's thoughts are.

FA....got claim?

Nope. Just hang me already.

I am basically being lynched for voting scum so I dont care to dance around such bullshit.

[Aristophanes]

I'd like to hear what massive and fish's thoughts are.

FA....got claim?

Nope. Just hang me already.

I am basically being lynched for voting scum so I dont care to dance around such bullshit.

Not by me, but okay.

I assume you have a non-informative role then?
Nothing special to tell us?

I don't see any reason not to claim here, so I'll just assume you're either VT or scum. Probably the latter.

[massive]

You can see where I'm at. I'm home sick so I'm going start-stoppy.

------

495: When vikingfan chooses his end-of-D1 wagon, he jumps on the smaller of the two (Monkeyman), saying he's not a fan of the people on the Oka wagon. He knows both wagons are on town, so the only thing that makes sense is that Oka's wagon is already loaded with the other scum (or one scum in on Oka, and the other is not on either wagon). MIGHT be a point for FA-town.

514: vikingfan defends havingfitz for the "quick" lynch vote. Fitz's vote isn't scummy in itself (we put him in the situation) but vikingfan jumping out to defend it gives me a little red flag. But he could have done it for the towncred in any case, potentially figuring fitz would get heat D2 for the "quickhammer." Dang that's winey.

548: Formerfish requests prods and then doesn't post his own thoughts, and so I thought to myself, how much HAS Formerfish done since replacing in? So I scanned his ISO. He avoided the vikingfan lynch and so far ONLY voted for the low-hanging fruit (Oka, Random, Kelbris/Kop) the entire game. Someone's going to need to look objectively at Formerfish at some point and I don't think it's me, since I still don't see how scum kill Slandaar N1 if Riblet/Fish is scum.

566:

Wickedest

: In this post, you criticize havingfitz for relying on strong townreads as one of the reasons he chose who he voted for at the end of D1. Considering your entire case today is centered around relying on strong townreads, and considering you've said that's the most common way you play the game, why would this strategy surprise you?

643: Don't like how easily Aristophanes abandons his Oka case.

646: If you weren't townreading wickedest yet, this is probably the post that breaks the camel's back. D2's wagons were on Oka and Random, both easy lynches at that point, and he pulls up and starts one on vikingfan. Interesting that Fishie soft-defends the start of a viking wagon in the next post.

675: vikingfan lists Fish and Random as throwaway names when talking about the Monkeyman wagon. Since we're trying to discuss who is scum there, it doesn't make sense for him to name his scumbuddies, and since we know Random is town, that's more proof in that direction. Town point for Fishie?

------

Unfortunately, NONE of this is helpful in the FA discussion.

[Wickedestjr]

For the sake of argument, why are two voters on the wagon of a now-confirmed scum more suspicious than two voters on the counterwagon to said scum?

I've already explained why I suspect you and FA. It has nothing to do with the fact that you both voted for vikingfan. You both could have voted for Kop yesterday and I'd still suspect you. Admittedly, I would suspect you

more

if you had voted Kop yesterday, but your vote for vikingfan doesn't help your image enough for me to townread you.

For reference: Does 1019 look like the work put forth by a scum bussing his buddy?

It doesn't seem particularly telling either way.

And the answer is, of course I bus buddies as scum. Everybody busses. Which is why it's a ridiculous question. The question you want, if it's a legitimate question, is "have I ever lynched a scumbuddy" and the answer to that is no. My games list is in my wiki entry.

What specifically do you mean when you say "lynched a scum buddy" ?

I mean "voted to lynch a scum buddy."

So you are claiming that you have bussed a scum buddy, but never voted for a scum buddy?

You should really be better about looking it up. Or maybe you've already seen 1029 and think it means something else?

Yeah I saw the post. Don't worry about me, I'm reading carefully.

It's a misrep because you're implying that FA voted viking solely for the fact that he was not a pr. But FA had other reasons, the belief that he was PR is simply all that was preventing him from voting viking initially.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm trying to keep up with activity, seeing he is the best vote, but finding it hard to make a thoughtful post to my thoughts on other bits as I am dealing with a family bereavement at the minute.

Sorry to hear that Kop.

No worries wrt activity, real life comes first.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedest

: In this post, you criticize havingfitz for relying on strong townreads as one of the reasons he chose who he voted for at the end of D1. Considering your entire case today is centered around relying on strong townreads, and considering you've said that's the most common way you play the game, why would this strategy surprise you?

The context is completely different. havingfitz didn't vote MonkeyMan for POE, he voted MonkeyMan because he was following his strong town reads.

[Wickedestjr]

Still feeling comfortable with my vote...

[Randomnamechange]

Hammertime?

[havingfitz]

If no one beats me to it I will hammer at 4pm est. Barring a reason/request not to.

[Aristophanes]

Sounds alright to me.
I'd loke to hear from Fish but I guess he is occupied elsewhere.

[massive]

I've already explained why I suspect you and FA. It has nothing to do with the fact that you both voted for vikingfan. You both could have voted for Kop yesterday and I'd still suspect you. Admittedly, I would suspect you more if you had voted Kop yesterday, but your vote for vikingfan doesn't help your image enough for me to townread you.

You've already stated that FA and I are scum simply via the power of POE. Why would I have an image problem that needs improving? Have you ever stated what you think IS my image problem?

massive wrote:
For reference: Does 1019 look like the work put forth by a scum bussing his buddy?

It doesn't seem particularly telling either way.

For my sanity, would you compare the strengths of my 1019 versus the unnamed things that have you townreading fitz / Fishie?

So you are claiming that you have bussed a scum buddy, but never voted for a scum buddy?

I am claiming I have never voted to lynch a scum buddy, which is exactly what you quoted. Misrep pot, meet misrep kettle.

It's a misrep because you're implying that FA voted viking solely for the fact that he was not a pr. But FA had other reasons, the belief that he was PR is simply all that was preventing him from voting viking initially.

Is that true? Then why didn't you point it out to Aristophanes during your careful reading?

I was incorrect. FA, you had townreads on Viking throughout the game and stated dislike for his wagon. Was the townread solely based on thinking he'd crumbed a PR? You barely addressed him at all the whole game.
In the reread, 475 stuck out to me. It reads as "He's scummy, but he was like that last time as town too, so it's cool."
Iso FA and search "Viking".
Looks a lot more like scumbuddying than I had previously realized and like he had to vote him having built up the potential fakeclaim too much.
1005 almost looks like he tried to remind Viking he'd missed his chance to fakeclaim his crumbed role. The VT claim was tacked on to the end of the post in question, making it easily missed. I think this could be a slip of sorts.

Iso FA and search "Viking".

And so I did and there is no evidence of your statement. AND YET I don't even see why it would be material. Why are you defending him since you are certain he is scum?

[havingfitz]

VOTE: FA

[FA_Q2]

ohhh, look - he finally went and did it.

And guess what - I am fucking town.

Goodbye - it dies not look good for us.

[havingfitz]

If you are town then why not offer opinion on who's scum?

[FA_Q2]

I have and I am not going to bother anymore. Town is not going to win this one because they really do not deserve to win it.


The last several days have been annoying as hell. You already have my opinions - restating them here is a waste of time and effort nor is anyone going to listen to them more after my town flip.

[havingfitz]

I have and I am not going to bother anymore.

You haven't today.

You think I'm scum for invalid rationale (ergo in part your lynch) and you insinuate suspicions towards massive. And perhaps Kop? I think you think random is town. What about Fish and Aristo. Whether you flip town or scum your opinion would be nice. And I assume you have wicked town as do I.

hmmmmmmmmmm?

[Iknal]

FA_Q2, vanilla town has been lynched.
Night 4 begins now. Ends on 9/6/15 at 1230 UTC +10.

More to come when I'm at a computer.

[Iknal]

Randomidget, Town 1-shot vigilante, has been slain overnight.

Day 5 begins now.

Day 5
Deadline is 23/06/2015 1930 UTC +10
(expired on 2015-06-23 19:30:00)

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting(6): massive, havingfitz, Wickedestjr, Aristophanes, Kop, Formerfish
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[Aristophanes]

So, this is lylo right?
Special reminder to keep votes close to your chest.
Two town on a wagon and scum can quicklynch to victory.

Massclaim time?
I think it is appropriate.

[massive]

I was like, didn't the mini open back up? Where is it on my "View Your Posts" page? Oh, nice, no one's posted in it.

Time to go back and reread yesterday. Wickedest's POE is now officially 0 for 2.

[Wickedestjr]

I acknowledge that I screwed up yesterday, no excuses for that mislynch. Sorry FA, you really did nothing wrong.

[Wickedestjr]

Wickedest's POE is now officially 0 for 2.

Actually my POE is 1 for 2. I was wrong about FA, but right about you.

When I called you scum, you tried using your vote for vikingfan as a defense. I made it clear that I wasn't going to let bussing fool me, but you mentioned that you don't vote for your scum buddies. At the end of our conversation, you said:

I am claiming I have never voted to lynch a scum buddy

If massive is telling the truth about this, then his vote for vikingfan is basically proof that he is town in this game. So of course, I had to check his past games.

There are two things I noticed when looking through massive's games. First, is that he draws scum A LOT (lucky!) - enough that if there were a game where he bussed, it would be easy to miss. The second thing I noticed is that massive

has

voted to lynch a scum buddy. Even though he said he has

never

done that. Hmm.

Take a look at this game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=59089

The scum team in this game was Boonskiies, Anatole Kuragin, and massive. I will provide some quotes from that game:

Spoiler: massive bussing

I forgot about Boonskiies's nonsense. 93 isn't "overanalyzing" despite what Boon says in 101; it's so much WIFOM I considered photoshopping his name on a box of Franzia. And on top of that, he actually stole that L-1 Autohammer from bjc in 1582 as a Playstyle Methodology? I say let's let the neighbors sort themselves out tomorrow.

vote Boonskiies

That vote stayed there until post 698.

GreenCrayons: In addition to the two posts I linked earlier which have my early thoughts, this is what I see from Boon up to my wanting to start a new train:

750 - Continuing to feed the "neighbors are both scum" conspiracy nonsense.
752 - His BBT vote is based solely on town-reading Csareo. That read is in 352 and is caused by one Csareo post.
831 - Backs Csareo's misunderstanding of English. Hard to imagine both of them miscomprehending that.
843 - Claims that BBT's scum case has many points, but doesn't enumerate them, or really seem to have deviated from "BBT is scum because Csareo is town" (since it also defends Csareo); also buddies nicely up to Jagged who has just arrived.
847 - Somehow becomes the main proponent for correctly understanding BBT, 16 posts later.

Add to that:

1235 - Continues to be the only person hunting an SK.

And this:

I have stated multiple reasons, and any competent person would understand why I'm voting BBT.

Talk to us like we're five and incompetent. Besides what I've mentioned above (the fact that you town-read Csareo) give us the ESPN Highlight Reel of why you are voting BBT.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Boonskiies

That vote stayed there until the end of the day. Next he voted for his other scum partner;

You seemed unsure on that read TTH, what's changed?

You want complete honesty on that answer? (Well, you're getting it, so too bad if you don't.)

The reason for my initial doubts was that I thought Anatole was hinting at bulletproof. He talked about it being an "all-passive" game, which leads me to believe that he has one. Regardless of how rational or irrational, that thought has taken hold and I really don't want to be lynched to be rewarded with shooting a bulletproof.

Now he's trying to slam the breaks on my lynch while projecting the "don't shoot me" attitude onto Boonskiies in case I get the couple more votes. So I'm back to thinking he's scum now.

So this case is very good and I would happily sheep this buuuuuuuuuut since you seem insistent on voting for yourself, I'll start the train.

VOTE: Anatole Kuragin

That vote stayed until the end of day 2.

massive, you don't remember voting for BOTH of your scum buddies? This game was just nine months ago. There is no way you forgot about that game. It is much much more likely that you are scum trying to earn town credit, hoping that nobody would actually check your meta.

Now is a great time to mass claim, and I think massive-scum should start us off.

[massive]

Jesus Christ not this again. You continue to spin this "never voted a scumbuddy" thing to however it fits your argument when clearly what we have been talking about FROM THE START (and what's relevant to this game!) is whether or not I have ever placed the lynching vote on a scumbuddy. Whether or not I have voted to lynch. Whether or not I have voted, in the vernacular, to hammer a scumbuddy.

IN THIS GAME, IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR ME TO HAMMER VIKINGFAN IF HE IS MY SCUMBUDDY.

I HAVE NEVER HAMMERED A SCUMBUDDY.

Being wrong about FA should have triggered a rethink of your POE and yet you continue to stand and needle on about this nonsensical meta non-tell, still with empty hands for an actual case against me, and it's getting embarrassing.