Mini 1663: Rick and Morty Mafia (Game Over)

[Rainbowdash]

It's not a conspiracy for you to claim vague roles and work together. T looks like this will be decided tomorrow.

But we have already effectively proven that Aristo is exactly what he claims.

Again though, your argument is that I made up my claim day one as what you are saying is a scum bus driver (again - possibly one of the worst moves scum can make, its even bad in most situations for a miller to claim out the gate) and then tried to push hard for a massclaim which I knew my partner would claim what he was and then have him target me out the gate?

Really? It just doesn't make sense to do something so complex and commit to it so hard out the gate. Scum win games when scum has options. Scum lose games when they back themselves into a corner. The amount of extremely risky specific plans and claims and pushes not only doesn't line up with my style of play, but it doesn't line up with simple optimal play.

You still have not answered why you think Ari is scum.

I have said he is most likely scum with KJ and kthnx, although I do not for sure think he is scum. I would not vote him without those two being dead first.

Really can we just fast forward to the point where we lynch one of KJ/kthnx vs Aristo? Nothing else really can happen here today as all other players require another to be scum first or are town reads.

[Jingle]

If kthx is town, then kj is also town because kj scum means the scum bus driver did nothing and there is no explanation for why RBD is alive.[/b]

Unless scum made you target lufan, in which case kthx targeted you and they tried to kill you, which makes everything match.

@Jingle - Why are you ignoring the very likely scenario of kthnx simply having lied about his result?

I'm not. But the simple fact is that I was made vanilla, which means I CAN'T be the votethief. Unless someone else wants to change their claim, that means scum stole kthx's vote, and I really fucking doubt that they would've stolen one of their own's vote, especially if there was a chance this was LYLO.

It cant be me (Due to Aristo)

Aristo is a vanilla-izer, but if you were scum together, you weren't necessarily vanilla-ized. Hell, he might've only been one shot.

Also, if I am scum, Jingle and Pony must be scum for going along with the fakeclaim, yes?
Why, as scum, would I out my team if I fakeclaimed!?
That would be dumb as fuq

What? No, it's pretty obvious you're a vanilla-izer. That's an incredibly powerful role for scum. And I'm pretty sure Titus realizes that.

I'm still thinking KJ is probably scum, Titus. But I'm fine with lynching Aristo today to test the hypothesis.

[Titus]

@RBD, if you feel like further talking is useless, vote no lynch.

Tbh, I was hoping to get a scum bus here. Given kthx vote loss, getting 5 votes was impossible unless scum bussed. I don't see that happening so it's probably time to fill KJ's no lynch prescription here.

[killerjester]

ty 4 coming to your senses

VOTE: NL

[Antihero]

Mod: What happens if 2 bus drivers target the same target?
What happens if a redirector redirects an action to someone targeted by a bus driver?

i can't answer either of these.

[Antihero]

Vote Count 3.3

killerjester - 1 (Elbirin)
kthnxbye - 1 (Rainbowdash)

No Lynch - 1 (killerjester)

Not Voting: Aristophanes, Jingle, Kthxbye, lufan131, Titus

lufan131 has been prodded.

5 to lynch.
deadline is in (expired on 2015-06-20 13:02:52)

[lufan131]

VOTE: No lynch

[Titus]

Killer jester, I always intended to no but I could not get people to talk by advocating for it.

If a lynch got to l minus 1, I would have unvoted.

[killerjester]

I don't see the point of getting people to talk if your intention was to NL.

[Titus]

Because it pins people to a story and stops quickhammering in Lylo. If someone votes for someone who they claim is not scum yesterday, there better be one hell of a reason.

Plus town can look at the reads of the dead person.

On that note, Your reads list.

[Titus]

That being said, it is possible that my reads are wrong and NAR is misapplied by the mod.

[killerjester]

If everyone gives their full reads then scum will just kill the person most likely to help us make the right decision in LyLo. This is why you don't try to spark discussion when you secretly want to NL.

[Titus]

That generates wifom. They will kill that person anyway, so we might as well trap them.

[Elbirn]

Killerjester is scum titus, stop talking to him.

[Titus]

Unlike you, I am not certain. Yet if he refuses to give his reads, I would be more inclined to agree.

[Rainbowdash]

@RBD, if you feel like further talking is useless, vote no lynch.

Actually I think that there is a decent enough chance we actually end up with KJ lynched, and I would take that over a no lynch since the result of that is pretty likely.

I'm not. But the simple fact is that I was made vanilla, which means I CAN'T be the votethief. Unless someone else wants to change their claim, that means scum stole kthx's vote, and I really fucking doubt that they would've stolen one of their own's vote, especially if there was a chance this was LYLO.

Who says that's the order of actions? Also there is a hole in that one. Lets look at it this way

Elbrin is clear - Not him
Lufan is vig - Not him
Eliminate you from your stance
Titus is what happened to that kill - Not her
kthnx is role cop - Not him
Aristo is VTizer - Not him

So unless you are trying to say that I am the vote thief with Aristo as scum and eliminated out partners vote who is really a bus driver... yeah... it makes far more sense that Aristo action just resolves last in all of this and you did that to KJ. I don't think it works any other way due to what is being said about a driver going on.

It cant be me (Due to Aristo)

Aristo is a vanilla-izer, but if you were scum together, you weren't necessarily vanilla-ized. Hell, he might've only been one shot.

Same response to Titus though on that one. Apart from it being horrible play for scum to play the way I did it cant be me without Aristo being confirmed as scum first. Really though, how is it remotely sound play to have played day one like that? Wouldn't it have been better to not even bother with trying to push out a massclaim and just have Aristo try and use his power to give the finishing blow to a lynch bait player?

Out of curiosity though for you... if you are calling me scum with Aristo... who is the other scum? Elbrin is still clear, lufan isn't scum... if you are assuming you aren't it means one of Titus/kthnx/KJ would be scum. Why is it bad for KJ to be lynched? You seem to openly think that he is scum and that would pretty much wreck scum since it would all but confirm you and Titus as town.

[Aristophanes]

Okay, so I'm thinking about what happened and stuff and trying to find a good conclusion.

I can see No Lynching today.
We will have a better chance tomorrow at doing something productive (finding scum) than we will today, based on numbers. We will just need to be careful with our votes.

It's obvious that D3X switched with Titus, and was killed. Since we have been told the vig shot did not go in that direction, I can believe that Titus is town.
If anything happens other than the kill tonight, it is because of KJ. Everyone else has expended their powers ot is now vanilla A-la-Ari. This also means that if we NoLynch today, we have to have a perfect game from here out.
KThnx and Elbrin can't be on a scumteam together because then they would have three chances at finding Morty. I also don't see how a Morty Cop would be helpful to Scum unless Morty is a recruitable/traitor. One of these two could easily be scum though.
Lufan seems legit, though the missing kill perplexes me. I don't see why scum would need a bogyguard/vig though since the only one with a kill other than them is the vig. Possible solution: Scum redirector. I don't like it, but the thought is growing on me. As said, it explains Heartless' death and the lack of vig kill (either redirected back at Lufan or at KJ).
This line of thinking gives me a clear on both Lufan and KJ (If the latter, which makes more sense to me).

This would leave me with RBD, Jingle, and either Kthnx or Elbrin as scum.
It would explain the redirection of the shot off of RBD.
I assume my power is activating after the night is done, so Jingle could have vote-stolen Kthnx.
If Jingle votestole Kthnx, Elbrin must be the last scum with them.

I hate trying to solve games and am probably echoing what has been said, bit I block out half of this thread's conversation because Night Action Speculation is dumb and not how I like to play. I am doing so now because it is where we are at.

Anyway though, I will vote one of Elbrin, Jingle, or RBD today, as I now believe they must be the scum team, or I will vote NL.

My only issue with all this is that it would mean the redirector is either Jingle or Elbrin. If Elbrin, why come back with a Rick read on Titus? Unless that was planned as the night kill and prefigured out (not impossible, and not really that bad a plan). I have a hard time seeing it as Jingle. They would have to have switched KJ and Lufan, making KJ free and Lufan's kill nulled by being jailkept. KJ would then have to votesteal Kthnx. I feel like that is a bit much.
So scum redirector would make the most sense as Elbrin.

[Aristophanes]

Actually, one sec. I may not get an immediate answer, but Imma ask about the NAR of my action.

[Rainbowdash]

@Aristo - Try again. Remember that Flames tracked RIP to Elbrin N1. Unless you are claiming that RIP was actually directly targeted by scum (he was lynchbait), that confirms Elbrin as town. Also where did the lufan kill go to? It got blocked somehow unless both scum and lufan and d3x targeted me.

We can also play the same game as I just did with Jingle. Who is the bus driver that must exist in your scenario?

Cant be me because you target me N1
Cant be Jingle due to his action being confirmed
Elbrin is "confirmed" town
Lufan is town
Titus is probably town here due to missing kill
Remove yourself

Again its KJ or kthnx from your perspective. At least one of them is required to be scum from your perspective if you are town here given what happened. So which one is it?

More confident on it being Aristo with kthnx and KJ now at least. That was a horrible post.

[Aristophanes]

Actually, read it all. I addressed where the shot went.
How does the fact that RIP targeted Elbrin make him town? Because you believe the shot was at Elbrin?
While it was something I had forgotten (games on this site take so long I legit forget the past days) perhaps RIP did end up the direct target.
It adds plausible doubt to the scenario, but I don't think it nullifies my theory.

I would argue the following for the Scum Busdriver:
Not you (Obviously).
Not Jingle as I've said.
Not Lufan, despite missing shot.
Not Titus due to townread.
Remove myself.

Not KJ because KJ would have to self target and switch out with Lufan to block the kill. First problem is whether he can selftarget or not.
If KJ can self target and switched Lufan to being blocked by Titus, it would make you and he scummates because why else would he save you like that? Explains the missing kill.
Did Titus/Maniez say they were going to jail kj prior to the night phase? I don't recall. If not, I find this scenario unlikely.

The other options are Kthnx or Elbrin. This then brings me back to the above post.

If it is kthnx, it would change the team, yes.
It would take away Jingle and Elbrin and bring in who?
KJ, Titus, or Lufan. Knock out Titus and Lufan, because fairly sure they are town.
That leaves KJ. So the team would be You, KJ, and Kthnx.
Either way I seem to find you as scum so why would any of this conversation hold water? You'd be trying to sway me to think town are scum.

So yeah, much happier with my deductions from the previous post.

[Titus]

@Ari,

I subbed in during nightfall. No one knew my jailing action. I selected based on similar thinkings to kthx's post in the thread. Prior to my/kthx claim, scum would be under the supposition that D3x subbed with their target. If kthx is scum, that's still the supposition.

@All, I have hammer whatever decision we make. I want to put forth a VCA analysis regarding the flip, or if we no lynch a general VCA state.

[Aristophanes]

Neat.
So I can't see KJ being scum busdriver then.

Titus, you mean you will do such as you hammer/prior to, but assuming its presence correct?
I like it.

Is anyone down for an RBD lynch?
Pony is scum is any scenario I can think of that makes sense.
VOTE: RBD

[Rainbowdash]

Oh wow it really is KJ, kthnx and Aristo. That's awesome.

His argument seriously just was "Bus Driver is Elbrin or kthnx, I think kthnx is scum and to avoid voting him here is a conspiracy theory where scum directly targeted RIP who most of the game thought was scum I am voting elsewhere". I mean... you not only managed to just float a theory that has me and kthnx on the same team but ALSO floated a theory where kthnx is a bus driver role cop and used that logic to vote me. You also are missing the somewhat obvious way of having stopped a kill if I was scum. Bus drive lufan and me.

Really?

What part of his justification of him voting me after saying "kthnx is the scum role cop/bus driver" makes ANY sense? Even MORE given that apparently im scum with kthnx who I have been saying is scum since D2.

Its those three. That massive reach by Aristo basically confirms it where he does some impressive tricks before ending up on the convenient vote. Ironically he ended up on the vote that most of the game actually needs him to be scum before I actually work. He should have just bussed KJ, got lynched D4 and then hoped for my lylo lynch.

@Aristo - Do you really think kthnx has two roles or is he just lying about being a role cop?

[Elbirn]

I really wish I were on a computer so rainbow dash and I could adequately discuss how stupid everything aristophanes just said was. At least she got it with dat last post.

Like, shit ari, you're telling me team scum told you to vanillaize 2 of them, and then the last scum is a bus driver role cop, and it's me or kthx because *insert fart noise here*

And then you go from wanting to no lynch, to wanting to vote me or kthx, to then voting rainbowdash because *insert louder fart noise*

You and Kj are ignored until game is over and I take my game face off and we all become friends and smile and eat internet cake and have happy good times together because I love you all regards me.

[Aristophanes]

Lying in this scenario.

You do realize I don't really agree with the latter scenario, I was merely trying out your way of thinking, right?

You/Elbrin/Jingle is still where I would lay my votes down.

Nice overreaction though!

Also, in saying his action may have gotten directed back at him, I did say that you would be scum.
I just don't see that as a scenario which is as likely to take place.
Did you miss that in my post (the first of this series) or what?