Star Trek Deep Space Nine Season 1 Mafia(game over!)

[Titus]

1798 just bitches IMO. I am not seeing clear conclusions.

Then you're not reading the fucking words, because I explained where I stand on every fucking player.

Most of it is gee no one is posting. That's not a stance but griping.

[Titus]

If I'm going to die immediately, I guess the main thing to take away from my reads is the following:

RIP is probably scum. People will say 'blerg generic lurker vote' but different people lurk differently. RIP's behaviour here shows disengagement and lack of self-confidence, which he doesn't lack as town. Jamierus is another whose lurking looks worse than other people's; he looks like scum who is wearied by keeping up an active facade and is taking advantage of the fact that nobody knows who he is to just hang around in the background.

In as much as I can ever read Titus, her treatment of me over the last few pages is pretty scummy. Trying to play down my reads as 'just bitching' and moving onto me at a time that looks very much like trying to make sure that a potentially useful protown voice is silenced before anyone realises that they're making a mistake.

Now the first part of this is starting to look like reads.
The second is shit. I unvoted to give more time to read your claim in case I am wrong. I could just have left my vote.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm sorry, did you expect a read on slots who don't post? Should I have anything to say about the ArcAngel slot other than 'what the actual fuck is this'? On every active player, I said where I stood. Sometimes that's not going to be a definitive 'scum/town' because reads don't work that way all the time, but

PEDIT OH, NOW THAT PART IS READS? That's EXACTLY what I said about RIP and Jamierus in that post you're writing off as 'waa waa all whining all the time'

[ChannelDelibird]

Like, if you only read the first three paragraphs of a 13-paragraph post, just say so, but you can't act as if I haven't been saying this sort of thing already.

[Titus]

Yelling that it's the same thing doesn't make it so.

[ChannelDelibird]

Kinda done with this for the time being until people other than Titus post, because either Titus is scum and she won't want to grok that I'm town or she's town and we have approximately zero history of understanding each other whatsoever.

It's not like I'd be sad about no longer being in this game, but :wincondition:

PEDIT: Go on, show the class how my opinion on RIP/Jamierus there is any different at all to when I said it in 1798. Go on.

[Titus]

What opinion?

[Titus]

From what I've read of RIP, I don't think that he has his town self-confidence here. All I see is a very poor excuse for why it's not here. He's probably scum.

^^ That is the closest thing resembling a read on RIP in 1798'. That's not good enough day 2 to be a read.

[ChannelDelibird]

You never learn. It's astonishing. Bye.

[davesaz]

CDB's reads are about the same strength as mine.
Too many idle slots. Before you try to say I'm part of it -- I'm always more a reader than a talker, except when I'm forced to be defensive.

I don't get why scum would shoot a claimed miller. That's why my vote is still on CDB. I'm getting pretty decent town vibes off his posting, though it could also be a fairly decent attempt at scum wiggling out. Not having a doc is certainly possible for balance, and it's certainly possible that there are flavor roles which don't have the corresponding abilities you'd expect.

[ChannelDelibird]

You realise that, if Max died because he targeted me, you'd still have to explain why scum shot Saint, right? Unless you think Max didn't hide behind anyone and got nightkilled. Then you have a Night 2 with only one death to explain.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also I'm not saying we don't have a Doctor, just that it's somebody else if we do. When I ran a DS9 game back in the day, Damar was the Doctor, so y'know, wouldn't rule anybody out.

[Narninian]

I can think of a couple characters that would make sense to be 'bulletproof'

[Senator]

ugh, I'm beginning to think Klingon is scum and expected a higher KPN to help her team.

what is KPN?

[Thor665]

CDB, reads please. Like full on wall reads. We are near deadline.

Klingon, You're willing to hammer before people read the claim?

So to clarify - you still think he's scum, but are worried people will derp hammer him too soon - yeah?

I just ... I need you to be sane in this game, Thor, because I think you're town and I have little-to-no faith in a huge chunk of this playerlist. Smurfing read what I'm writing, OK?

Dude - I asked if your list was still solid. I read it. Excuse me to all high hell for being of the opinion that reads can change within 3 pages - because they can. Stop the drama, it annoys me.

You realise that, if Max died because he targeted me, you'd still have to explain why scum shot Saint, right?

We have to "explain" that regardless of whether we think Max hid behind you - so it was either a Vig or an odd scum kill shot choice. That's what it is and it has *nothing* to do with clearing you.
Why are you acting like it does?

Unless you think Max didn't hide behind anyone and got nightkilled.

If he did this then I am offended by his play.
I don't think that happened though. Do you?

Then you have a Night 2 with only one death to explain.

Which will likely be easy to do as I am willing to bet there is at *least* one kill preventing role in the game.
Why are you acting like this would be difficult to believe?

[ChannelDelibird]

Thor, FFS, context. Davesaz specifically said that his vote stayed on me because he couldn't explain why scum shot Saint. I was pointing out that someone shot Saint and, until evidence otherwise is apparent (i.e. More than one non-hider death in a night), we ought to assume that it was scum, therefore Saint being shot is not a reason to maintain a vote on me because Saint got shot whether or not Max hid behind me. The 'didn't hide' thing was to show that implausible things have to be true for his reason to make sense.

[ChannelDelibird]

Forgive me for getting angry about the reads list thing, I suppose - an early start on little sleep and a lot of a cold plus gamestate equals cranky - but the fact that I spoke to a changing read on Titus should have made it clear that I'd say when reads change within three pages of a list.

[Thor665]

Thor, FFS, context. Davesaz specifically said that his vote stayed on me because he couldn't explain why scum shot Saint. I was pointing out that someone shot Saint and, until evidence otherwise is apparent (i.e. More than one non-hider death in a night), we ought to assume that it was scum, therefore Saint being shot is not a reason to maintain a vote on me because Saint got shot whether or not Max hid behind me. The 'didn't hide' thing was to show that implausible things have to be true for his reason to make sense.

His comment literally lacked any teeth at all as far as an attack on you - if I'd been you, and town, I'd have been asking why he was soft distancing from his read on me. Not debating a silly point that doesn't even suggest you're scum by arguing another silly point that doesn't suggest you're town.

But I am serious - do you think your raised issues remotely damage his stance if he thinks scum not killing a Miller somehow suggests you're scum? Because your defense does nothing to suggest your town, and it is a defense post, yeah?

Forgive me for getting angry about the reads list thing, I suppose - an early start on little sleep and a lot of a cold plus gamestate equals cranky - but the fact that I spoke to a changing read on Titus should have made it clear that I'd say when reads change within three pages of a list.

I will agree that you indicated a read had changed and that I, later, asked you if any of your reads had changed that you wanted to clarify prior to death.

You are slightly selling me on Titus.
Why do you have Peacebringer as town - is it due to scumreading RIP or is he town free of that interaction?

[ChannelDelibird]

I didn't take it as an attack on me so much as a really lame non-reason to keep me hovering too close to death than is appropriate. It just irked me because it was nonsense. I'll maybe concede that pushing him on soft distancing might have been a more productive line of enquiry but I've seen town make posts like that and I'm more interested in getting votes off me and onto an outright scumread in RIP than start mucking around with a fairly null read.

On ipad right now so no detailed quoting and slow typing but will go into peacebringer next

[ChannelDelibird]

Peacebringer townlean isn't about RIP vote. As previously mentioned I feel like there was some degree of genuine frustration in his back-and-forth with Senator. He was barking up that tree with quite a lot of gusto - not unfakeable but more likely to come from town who think they've caught scum, in my experience

[Titus]

VOTE: RIP

The actions by Thor and Klingon here are really bad. CDB looks scummy because of the claim but his response here reads like town that mistakenly thinks he is producing reads. Klingon wanting to fast hammer does not sit well with me. Thor is being sold on whatever's popular. He's treating CDB like he is town. Thor shouldn't be persuaded by anything CDB says if actually scumreading CDB.

I would love a Klingon fast wagon here but given the activity level, nope.

[Thor665]

So I agree with CDB that he is "slightly selling" me on you being scum and suddenly I'm being weird in how I'm interacting with him because I'm not calling everything he says a lie and that makes CDB less scummy to you?

Tell me more.

[Titus]

Pretty much. You have been all over popular decisions with no depth. You're not treating CDB like he's a scumread. You could get to me/CDB as buddies with the same posting (still wrong) but you're being far to friendly and open to someone you're scumreading.

[Titus]

What are your thoughts of Klingon wanting to hammer before the claim is reviewed?

[Thor665]

Pretty much. You have been all over popular decisions with no depth.

I don't think that's true. I've pressed two cases - CDB and PeaceBringer. I created the Peacebringer wagon. So...at worst you have me at 50% popular, yeah? Meanig I'm 50% non-popular, right?

You're not treating CDB like he's a scumread. You could get to me/CDB as buddies with the same posting (still wrong) but you're being far to friendly and open to someone you're scumreading.

How am I being "too friendly and open" exactly?
I agree that I'm discussing reads with him, and do not appear to be 100% convinced he's scum.
I fail to see how that makes me scum. Nor how, even if you think it does, why it translates to a RIP vote rather than a Thor vote.