Mini 1671 - Eclipse Mafia - Total Eclipse (Game Over)

[Green Crayons]

Oh man another game!

[Green Crayons]

Read through page 10.

Everyone recognizes that BBT is scum, right?

[Green Crayons]

Read through page 10.

Everyone recognizes that BBT is scum, right?

Because, as of Page 10:

D1: early on, pretty uninsightful play; not particularly alignment indicative, but certainly not town. then went AWOL

D2: comes back with a flash of bad or completely alignment neutral observations posing as activity to net town points

[Green Crayons]

I thought we were speaking in hypotheticals, pie in the blue sky type of conversation, fathoming random possibilities. Isn't scumhunting a bit like pulling the petals off a flower "he loves me", "he loves me madly", "he loves me not"...no? Then make a better case on me because my time is precious.

lol

ABR has the best turn of phrases.

clapclapclap

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: BBT

Get back on the good wagon, ABR.

[Green Crayons]

BBT Play:

1.

BBT is present for the first part of D1 (up to page 4 out of 9). Nothing really worthy of note. Disappears, allowing his vote to stay on Skold. Not particularly alignment indicative, but not the engaged and probing BBT-town we all know and love.

2.

BBT shows back up after D2 begins. Has a series of "catch up" posts.

A.

I've made this point before in other games, but excessive use of these types of posts are alignment indicative, and trend towards scum. It essentially permits scum to look more active and engaged than they actually are. These posts aren't helpful to the town, especially when there is a large quantity of posts being responded to. This tactic becomes more alignment indicative the more often it is used, as town will do the occasional "catch up" post covering a multitude of posts that they missed while away from the game for whatever reason.

B.

Specifically w/r/t BBT's use of these catch up posts, it is alignment indicative trending towards scum because a lot of BBT's points are read as forced, or are simply just not alignment indicative fluff observations.

C.

The fact that BBT keeps coming back to this well - he keeps finding a reason to make "catch up" posts where he responds to a bunch of posts with surface-level reactions or non-alignment indicative observations - is troubling for BBT's alignment.

3.

The BBT/ABR interaction looks bad for BBT. The BBT/Scarab interaction looks bad for BBT. BBT's points are bad, his focus is off, and he's trying to pick fights, which suggests that he's looking to find reasons to vote someone.

4.

Everything else just feels off. I don't like his on-and-off of the Skold wagon. I don't like his push against Scarab or my slot. I don't like any of his reads.

[Green Crayons]

BBT is scum.

[Green Crayons]

Negative ghost rider.

[Green Crayons]

Oh.

So you're just going to attack my alignment as a means of discrediting suspicions about your own scummy play.

Thanks for confirming that you are, in fact, scum.

[Green Crayons]

Normally,

I would accuse you of being bad at reading me

. But we both know why your 'read' is bad this game, amiright?

Wait. Is this a reference to META?

You are scum.

[Green Crayons]

Glad you responded to the joke. And not the real criticism.

[Green Crayons]

, scum.

[Green Crayons]

Zoronos

What do you think of BBT?

[Green Crayons]

Don't copy me!

[Green Crayons]

GC, did you actually just say you're scum reading me for the way I catch up?

Is that the bullshit you're actually trying to push right now?

*wiggles eyebrows*

Last two times someone reduced it to that, and then got indignant about it, they were scum.

Thanks for the birthday wishes.

[Green Crayons]

yeah, easy to find scum: BBT

I know I used the term "active lurking," but that's not really the idea I'm trying to get at with:

2. Her posting frequently/format resembles that of scum. She'll go inactive, come back with a massive quote/respond post, have a smattering of smaller posts, and then go inactive again for a few days. The inactive - sudden activity flurry - then inactive again allows her to not be in the center of thread consciousness. Her massive quote/respond posts make her look active, but most folks will probably only skim, and therefore she evades real scrutiny.

Clarification That I Made In Another Game: (<-- the links still work if you follow that)

I'm not saying her V/LA is fabricated. I'm saying that going absent and then coming back with a serious of catch up posts -- and this is her habitual play this game, not a one-time event -- is aligned with scum play.

Oldie Mafia 2. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was porochaz. He had a legitimate excuse for his V/LA (funeral and other bad IRL experiences), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 444, Post 596, Post 676.

Also, I just got finished with a game where this happened again. Mini 1609. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was massive. Once again, a legitimate reason (no weeked access), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 2434, 2497, and Post 3336.

Once again, it's not so much that someone has V/LA, and then decides to make catch up posts. It's the heavy emphasis of using catch up posts, as it allows a person to look like they are providing the town with a lot of activity, but it isn't really all that substantive and useful for the town.

Of course, being V/LA was the predicate for farside relying heavily on her catch up posts, but it's the catch up posts and not her V/LA that is the suspicious part of her play for purposes of that line of suspicion. And as I pointed out when Riddle wanted me to do the work for farside, farside could have jumped in and made a (what would have been a pretty convincing) meta defense: that she has been doing similar catch up posts in all of her games.

For the record, farside was scum in that game, too.

It's an easy crutch to use if you're scum, and that's why I think it is more likely to come from scum than town. And while I don't think it's a sure fire tell, for me it helps solidify the good aspects of the case I've seen Hero make against slimer.

[Green Crayons]

It's alignment indicative, you did it, you're scum.

[Green Crayons]

Also:

1.

BBT is present for the first part of D1 (up to page 4 out of 9). Nothing really worthy of note. Disappears, allowing his vote to stay on Skold. Not particularly alignment indicative, but not the engaged and probing BBT-town we all know and love.

3.

The BBT/ABR interaction looks bad for BBT. The BBT/Scarab interaction looks bad for BBT. BBT's points are bad, his focus is off, and he's trying to pick fights, which suggests that he's looking to find reasons to vote someone.

4.

Everything else just feels off. I don't like his on-and-off of the Skold wagon. I don't like his push against Scarab or my slot. I don't like any of his reads.

[Green Crayons]

1) Answer:

1.

BBT is present for the first part of D1 (up to page 4 out of 9). Nothing really worthy of note. Disappears, allowing his vote to stay on Skold. Not particularly alignment indicative,

but not the engaged and probing BBT-town we all know and love.

2) Answer:

3.

The BBT/ABR interaction looks bad for BBT. The BBT/Scarab interaction looks bad for BBT.

BBT's points are bad, his focus is off, and he's trying to pick fights, which suggests that he's looking to find reasons to vote someone.

3) Answer:

4.

Everything else just feels off. I don't like his on-and-off of the Skold wagon. I don't like his push against Scarab or my slot. I don't like any of his reads.

[/quote]
Your play is bad, and you are not a bad player. You toyed with the Skold wagon while it was advantageous to do so. You have made bad cases against Scarab and my slot.

[Green Crayons]

You're not a bad player in the sense that you make good cases.

[Green Crayons]

When you're town.

[Green Crayons]

I don't feel like going through your ISO and handholding everyone. Effort.

They can ISO your interactions with ABR and Scarab, or recall from memory, and agree or disagree with me.

[Green Crayons]

I was probably wrong about slotting Zoronos as a scum after a reread. Good to know.

[Green Crayons]

Nah, I'm good.

[Green Crayons]

Nobody would read a big wall ole text anyways, BBT. Stop trying to bait me into doing one.

[Green Crayons]

(More than I have already done.)

[Green Crayons]

I grow weary of such things.

META!

[Green Crayons]

The only thing I'm being obvious about.

Is being certain that you are scum.

Nothing scummy about that.

Make a case other than "obvious scum," brotha.

[Green Crayons]

Have you given a Peace-scum case, yet? I thought Peace has been p town this game.

[Green Crayons]

Apart from your 694.

[Green Crayons]

ABR, who is the scum team?

[Green Crayons]

Vote Count 3.1

BlueBloodedToffee

(3): Green Crayons, pisskop, PeaceBringer

pisskop

(3): Juls, Albert B. Rampage, BlueBloodedToffee

PeaceBringer

(1): Zoronos

Not Voting

(3): Sotty7, Equinox

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-06-14 18:15:00)

If scum is on BBT-wagon, then it is PK.

[Green Crayons]

mmmm

Well, I say that, because I'm a bit iffy on reading PK.

But I was reading Scarab as strong town.

I guess that shuffles out to medium town.

Peace is also a medium town read.

So... I don't know. I guess either, if there must be scum on your wagon. But I'm not inclined to think that there must be scum on your wagon.

[Green Crayons]

Really, BBT?

[Green Crayons]

Like.

Shit.

I'm not even sure how to respond to the really horrible proposition of "these three players are voting BBT, therefore 1 must be scum"!

[Green Crayons]

I don't believe you honestly think that, if you are town, the mere fact that you are town and 3 players are voting you, means that 1 of those players is scum.

Like. Shit. Town vote town all the time.

I'm sure there's a proper fallacy title that goes along with that flawed reasoning, but I don't know what it is.

Your counter-wagon argument has at least some game-specific reason for you - if you are actually town - to think that scum is on your wagon. But, from my position, I don't see any reason why people agreeing with my suspicions is more likely to come from scum than like-minded town.

[Green Crayons]

hats can't copulate

you'll never be able to find a fucking hat to eat

empty promises

[Green Crayons]

GC, PK, PB

town, medium town, medium town

[Green Crayons]

IF you're town

THEN I'll certainly look your lynch voters over

[Green Crayons]

So

I'm scum because I have bad town reads

PK is scum because whatever reasons you had against Scarab

PB is scum because he's on your wagon

BAM BAM BAM we're all scum all on your wagon

Really?

[Green Crayons]

I think scum are very likely in Scarab/Skold/SNS/Peace. Game is won if we lynch these four people.

[Green Crayons]

Juls is not a bad scum suspect.

Make a case.

[Green Crayons]

/lazy

[Green Crayons]

I feel like these two VC's paint a pretty telling picture.

Those two VCs do not look good for Juls.

Then again, they appear to be random VCs - 1.3 and 1.4.

Why those two?

[Green Crayons]

I generally only look at lynch VCs. Give me context as to why those VCs are important. That's what I'm asking for.

lol @ your pants, because they are all shitty now

[Green Crayons]

Well now I have to go and read (that part of) the thread again.

JEEZE, BBT. Makin' me work.

I'll get to it today.

[Green Crayons]

@Zoro:

Green Crayons - You kind of ignored me when I asked you why you thought Peace was town. Any chance you can enlighten me?

I was waiting for Peace to respond to your case instead of preemptively defending Peace by way of my reactions. And then, once you were like "oh, I guess that's a semi-town response," I basically back-burnered it.

Work got busy, so I'll have input later.

[Green Crayons]

Spoiler: thoughts on Peace, all for Zoro

In my chat with him on D1 about his attack on Clusk (who was then SNS, who was then... you?), he deflected and demurred, then town read me with a hedge. An unprompted town read of an accuser is scummy, imo.

I don't see how Peace deflected and demurred. Peace's interaction with Clusk wasn't exactly what I would call productive, but certainly matches up with what Peace explains he was trying to do (gauge Clusk's reaction to aggressive commentary).

Peace's town read of you in Post 157 is alignment neutral. I agree that a sudden town read of an accuser is scummy, but I don't know if I would consider your Post 148, Post 150, and Post 155 of the quality to label you as an "accuser." You were certainly probing Peace's play, which Peace-scum might have been overly sensitive about, to be sure. But an equally plausible reading is that Peace-town just did to you what he did with Clusk.

mmm, maybe Peace's immediate followup of self-meta in Post 158 is a bit much, but I've gotten burned by suspecting people who self-meta, so (shrug)

He didn't do much to scum hunt D2; no questions, no case advancement. The closest was his engagement with Skold, calling Skold's reasoning dumb. He was right, Skold's reasoning was dumb, but that engagement wasn't alignment indicating, imo, since he didn't seem to lead to an updating of the read.

I agree that a lot of Peace's D2 is not alignment indicative.

His deadline handwringing in 554 felt scummy; his vote was already on Skold while he lamented there was no time to go elsewhere.

(shrug) I don't see it.

Especially when he jumped from skold over to SNS immediately after in Post 561 upon BBT's rallying. We know that skold wasn't scum, so this action appears to bolster the notion that 554 was true, that Peace didn't particularly care for the skold vote, but he didn't know what else to do in light of the deadline.

I've had a hard time following the logic in Peace's posting, and my conclusion is that he's doing a lot of smokescreening / non-content-posting. His end-of-day discussions with Juls at el typify this; lots of talking about how to mafia, little actually find-the-scum. He hasn't been actively sorting town from scum.

I mean, Peace's logic isn't hard to follow?

He isn't the most active content poster, but that isn't alignment indicative.

The D2 discussion with Juls is Juls and Peace getting drawn into a lengthy conversation that only they really care about (w/r/t Juls's suspicions of Peace). Happens all the time between town/town and scum/town. I haven't figured out how to distinguish. FWIW, Juls brought up play in Post 578, which took them down that road, if you really hate that line of conversation.

What's the town side of it; what's the towny aspect that I'm missing?

- Peace's early D1 play (especially w/r/t skold & Juls) looks natural and easy. Not too forced, not too calculated.
- I might call Peace's intentional aggravation of Clusk scum-motivated if Peace didn't then essentially say "welp townreading Clusk."
- His contradictory stance regarding Sotty (pointed out by BBT's Post 251) is just something really easy for a scum to avoid, and there was no fear of Sotty being lynched when Peace unvoted in Post 241 requiring him to voice such a position ripe for being suspected.
- There's danger of ATE, but I liked Peace's response to Sotty in Post 590 and Post 593.

[Green Crayons]

oh
lol
BBT is at L-1?

[Green Crayons]

Claim, son.

[Green Crayons]

Lynch counts:

Vote Count 1.5

Prolapsed Brain

(7): Albert B. Rampage, Scarab,

Clusk92

, PeaceBringer, Juls,

Jeanne11, Garmr

Juls (2):

Ankamius, Prolapsed Brain

PeaceBringer (1):

Skold

Zoronos (1):

Sotty7

Skold (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (1): Zoronos

Skold (6): Sotty7

, Albert B. Rampage,

Green Crayons

, PeaceBringer,

BlueBloodedToffee

, pisskop

snscompt1 (1): Skold

pisskop (1):

RedCoyote

PeaceBringer (1): Juls

Not Voting (2):

Equinox

, Zoronos

BlueBloodedToffee (5): Green Crayons

, pisskop, PeaceBringer, Juls, Albert B. Rampage
pisskop (2):

Sotty7, BlueBloodedToffee

PeaceBringer (1): Zoronos

Not Voting (1):

Equinox

I'm thinking Pisskop, Juls + Zoro:

- Pisskop, ABR and Peace have been on every lynching wagon.

- The pisskop slot ends day two and three with only confirmed townies voting him.

- Looks like at least two scum on the back of the BBT wagon.

- Zoro is looking prob scum. No vote on both day one and day two. Ends day three on a going nowhere wagon.

- Zoro has been itching at me the last day or so, with how he latched onto Sotty after their initial disagreement. As soon as Sotty came out day two calling Zoro town suddenly Sotty is a strong town read of his.

- Juls picking on Zoro's voting record could easily be bussing.


Alternative theory of the crime - Juls/ABR/Zoro

- Juls defending ABR from an early RVS wagon + her flimsy push on Zoro.

[Green Crayons]

Most interested in Equinox's thoughts, hope he shows up and plays. <3

[Green Crayons]

I don't know if my heart can stand any more broken promises, ABR.

[Green Crayons]

Alrighty, so ABR wants to vote PK.

Which I appreciate, in the sense that ABR actually gave a proto-vote, as opposed to a useless 3-person mafia spec.

@PK:

who do you want to vote?

@Zoro:

who do you want to vote?

@Peace:

who do you want to vote?

@Juls:

who do you want to vote?

One name only.

[Green Crayons]

Sotty thoughts:

Juls, (PK or ABR), (Zoro or PB)

Sotty harbored Scarab/PK suspicions the longest. But she wanted a Juls lynch the most right before night concluded.



I think it's interesting that Juls showed up on everyone's list of 3 scum, but nobody wants to lynch her. I dunno if that's worth anything, though.


I'm inclined to vote Juls unless if Equinox has some mind shattering insight. Which he might! So I'll wait.

[Green Crayons]

Juls, (PK or ABR), (Zoro or PB)

Interestingly, PK/ABR and Zoro/PB have sort of set themselves up for 1v1s. So Sotty did a good job pairing off!

That leaves Juls as the lone scum without a pairing.

[Green Crayons]

So I am on everyone's scum list and that makes me scum? Why wouldn't it be the other way around? Only 1 of the people saying that is ACTUALLY town you realize?

Sotty + Me + 1 other town + who knows what Equinox thinks of you > 1 person

Also, it's not just that you're on everyone's list. It's that you're on everyone's list but nobody said that they want to vote you. It's the best of both worlds for scum.

[Green Crayons]

(This is a little rough, so please bear with me. The underlying idea is sound, I think.)

From my seat, the lynch that is least likely to lose the game outright is Peace. It would require an ABR / Juls / Pisskop scum team. Which means 2/3 of the scum team is bussing, and Pisskop is on a 50/50. They might all be waiting for me to wrongvote Peace, but if that's the case we're already hosed since Peace and I cross-suspect each other.

Before ABR's post, I thought the scum team were going direct and trying for the mislynch today. That meant it was a coin flip between Juls and Piss for the town slot. (Either Piss is wrong and scum will follow on his vote, or Juls is wrong and scum will follow on the PK vote). The reason ABR was scum in the direct case is that ABR-town would require a Peace / PK / Juls scum team. That would mean Juls was busing her entire team on D2 and is busing again now, which if scum are going direct can't be the case. After doing a full re-read I was leaning towards Juls as the town slot in this scenario.

ABR's post against PK wrong-footed that. Unless there are only two scum, there's no way that both Juls and ABR are town. That means it's two coin flips; [Juls | ABR] vs PK and if PK flips scum Juls vs ABR. If PK isn't town, at least one scum must be busing right now, but I don't have a good feel for if it's ABR or Juls. If he is town, then ABR and Juls are going direct (which just puts me back into the earlier PK vs Juls case), with Peace as the follow on. But in none of those scenarios is Peace town.

I think the right vote here is Peace.

If it's Zoro v. PB, I assure you I'm not voting PB.

[Green Crayons]

It would require an ABR / Juls / Pisskop scum team.

ABR & Juls want to vote PK.

I don't see an ABR/Juls/PK team, I agree.

I do think you have a good chance at being scum, though.

[Green Crayons]

Well then don't make it Zoro v. PB.

[Green Crayons]

I'm curious, though; what did she say that led to her wanting to lynch Juls the most?

I'll just give you the full rundown.

D1 convo:

- Sotty: Sotty has played a lot with Juls, and although she forgets Juls's scumgame, Juls's questioning/probing looks town

D2 convo:

- Sotty: Juls is suspicious because (1) was on Skold flash wagon, (2) pushed Gamr for attacking Juls, (3) voted PB with little/no justification

- Sotty later included Juls in a 3-scum group

- Sotty then started to lean town a bit on Juls, but that began to wither because Sotty was voting Juls at that time to try to force Juls to commit and vote someone, which Juls just wasn't doing

- Sotty, later still, was open to a Juls lynch; said Juls had a fishy record, but Juls replacing out could come from town or scum

- Sotty, later still x2, puts Juls as weak town in full reads list

D3 convo:

- Sotty keeps Juls as weak town in full reads list, but notes she has two scum reads, and so offers Juls as a possible third scum

- Sotty: Juls/PK/BBT are scum because she doesn't see how her town reads could be scum

- Sotty thought BBT v. Juls was scum bickering (tbf, so did I)

N3 convo:

- Thinks 2 scum out of PK, PB, Juls, ABR, because they were on Skold and BBT wagon

- Me: I suspect Juls the most

- Sotty in response to my comment:
+ Sotty agreed, but with some qualifying langauge
+ Sotty thought that Juls might be the best lynch to generate info because connections to both Zoro and ABR
+ Sotty voiced some conerns about a meta thing about whether Juls would replace back into a scum role, but said she was ignoring that because she could just go around and around in circiles

[Green Crayons]

mmmm

I was thinking that today was LYLO

but 3 scum v. 3 confirmed towns but no protective role isn't as balanced

so, wouldn't be surprised if 2 scum (but still operating as if LYLO)

also, Zoro and ABR pointed out 2 scum first, so eh oh el

[Green Crayons]

oh.

lol

NM my bad

[Green Crayons]

keepin me on the straight and narrow


I kinda just want Equi's super awesome analysis.

[Green Crayons]

hunh.

[Green Crayons]

lolwat

[Green Crayons]

You know that's not how it works, ABR. PK voting ABR without ABR being lynched means only that at least one of PK and ABR is scum, not that one of them definitely is scum.

[Green Crayons]

Oh for fuck's sake. Why does nobody give a shit about Peacebringer.

He doesn't look scummy, and your case hasn't been convincing, and your insistence on focusing only on PB looks scummy in and of itself because it has allowed you to not be on any of the active wagons.

[Green Crayons]

As much as I love the emotional rollercoasters that are LYLO situations, I'm now going home to a house full of inlaws, so y'all keep it real and don't lose the game please. tia

<3

[Green Crayons]

Reread D1 + BBT's case on Juls (lol who pays attention to the dead?).

Happy with this.

VOTE: Juls

[Green Crayons]

Sup.

[Green Crayons]

What do you want to talk about?

[Green Crayons]

The way I see it

1 of <PB OR Zoro> + 2 of <PK, ABR, Juls>

[Green Crayons]

PK + ABR team?

mmmmm, good show I guess, what with that voting of each other?

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: Juls

Won't kill me.

[Green Crayons]

Alrighty, I'm in no rush I guess.

WoOOWOOWOwooow See y'all after Equi and Juls lay down some knowledge.

[Green Crayons]

Ain't no thing. Tomorrow is Friday. Please do something fun after work.

[Green Crayons]

I'm a 30 year old dad of two cats.

Fun is all we have left. /solidarity

[Green Crayons]

I'm uncertain about ABR. so was Sotty. We both had a town read early game, but it sort of diminished.

[Green Crayons]

PK, you want to lynch ABR or Juls?

[Green Crayons]

Pick one.

[Green Crayons]

The way he has been subtly undermining me Today bugged me, but I couldn't put a name to the behavior until literally 5 minutes ago when I remembered that he did this to Sakura Hana in Paradise Lost.

Can you point out the posts you're referring to?

[Green Crayons]

@Equi:

sorry for the mealy-mouthed response w/r/t ABR earlier. I just finished rereading D2, and I think ABR is likely town. I'll let you know if this read changes as I get through D3.

Thoughts:

D2 was really difficult to reread. I dunno why. The first time I was reading through, I thought RC was possible scum, so I actually gave RC's posts credence this time around. His longer posts are slow going, but there's some really good material in them.

I keep coming back to Post 375.

RC strong townreads: sotty, ABR, BBT
RC weak townreads: Zoro, me
RC weak scumreads: PB, Juls
RC strong scumreads: scarab

RC was killed before Equi (confirmed IC) and Sotty (semi-confirmed PR). Porque?

(1) RC was correct about scarab/PK scum, and scum wanted to nip that in the bud.

Possible scenario, definitely.


(2) RC was wrong about scarab/PK scum, and scum wanted to push that narrative for a mislynch of scarab/PK.

Unlikely. I originally thought that this was the case, but the folks who first floated this idea were town (BBT).


(3) RC was more right than wrong in his reads - that is, he was (say) 2/3rds right on PB/Juls/Scarab being scum, and only only 1 wrong about a townread.

This would probably be the biggest motivator for scum to get rid of RC, moreso than RC just simply being right about 1 single scum player.


ALSO, sidenote, if I was ABR-scum, why would I want to kill one of my strongest defenders? I know ABR is an unconventional player, but I don't see why he would want to play this game on HARD MODE vis-a-vis killing RC. This is a huge hiccup in scumreading ABR for me, but I guess it's not insurmountable.


ALSO ALSO, I think it's worth nothing that scum might have thought RC was PR hint-dropping: "The first big thing is I have a strong townread on Sotty. 202, 269 and 371 are really noteworthy. This is someone that is actively asking the right questions and drawing the same conclusions as I am for the most part.

She's officially my mason this game and I don't see how anything short of a cop report will get me to change my mind.

"

MAYBE. I don't know. That's a stretch, because wtf would RC have dropped such a hint in his first substantive replace-in post? dumb, dumb, dumb.

That said, even if scumteam thought RC was PR dropping (investigative role or mason role), if I were ABR-scum, I wouldn't have killed RC. If RC was mason, there's no benefit in getting rid of that 1/2 of the masonhood. If RC was an investigative role, you know who RC probably wouldn't be investigating? One of his strongest townreads, based off of RC's immediately prior experience with the scum version: ABR. In contrast, you know who RC probably would be investigating? One of the trio of suspected scumreads.


Ultimately, RC's town read of ABR held throughout D2. Even in Post 616, when RC is critical of ABR, RC is still calling ABR town. I don't think ABR-scum would have killed RC on N2.

[Green Crayons]

Alright, day-drinking and inlaws incoming, so who knows when I'll hit up D3.

[Green Crayons]

Alright, finished D3. (Inlaws can't keep up with day drinking, so... just stuck here drinking and reading mafiascum, oh boy.)

(A)

Juls still looks like the best lynch out of <ABR, PK, Juls>.

(B)

The only thing giving me pause on a Juls lynch is if ABR & PK are buddies. The D2 VCs are probably the best support for this scenario, but... it's really a stretch. I think it's Juls + PK or Juls + ABR. Luckily, I don't have to pick out of PK/ABR at the moment.

(C)

What about the last remaining scum out of <Zoro + PB>? I'm calling past-GC stupid and say that it's PB after all.

(1)

I think there's strong evidence of a associative connection between Juls/PB.

(2)

I think Zoro is actually town. The problems I have had with his play (minimal voting) I think are attributable to play style, and not alignment.

Moreover, I really liked our conversation about PB - it looks like Zoro is really thinking through his read, and I think the thought process behind it is genuine.

Also, (I caught this originally, and put it aside until RC mentioned it again), I really think Post 284 is a fairly solid townslip in thinking mafia directly targeted Garmr.

Finally, his nearly singular focus on PB strikes me more as town tunnel than scum attempting to look like a town tunnel. I don't know why, it just does. In the same light, Post 986 reads pretty town.

(3)

I think there's evidence that PB is scum. There's the aforementioned connection to Juls. There's also RC's Post 541 which I think is the strongest collection of problems with PB's play found in one place.

[Green Crayons]

So basically I'm down to Juls or PB.

I'm pretty certain that both are scum. The fact that PK has voted Juls and she has not been run up is a strong indicator that (at least one of) Juls/PK is scum - though it's only been a few hours, and not everyone checks MS very often.

I'm holding off of voting because I was obligated to give the game another read, and because I promised Juls the end of the weekend.

[Green Crayons]

@Zoro:

besides me, has anyone else given your PB suspicions the time of day?

[Green Crayons]

Comical third option!

VOTE: PB

[Green Crayons]

lol all 3 of you?

Was never going to get through that. I figured PK was scum, but couldn't figure out if it was Juls or ABR bussing, so I wanted to at least get one scum in the bag.

[Green Crayons]

Well gg.

[Green Crayons]

Mason PT release is fine by me.

FWIW, I hardread Zoro as town after the reread, and with so little folks paying attention to the PB case + PB appearing to recognize that Zoro was town in a tunnel but still pushing for a Zoro lynch = turned my opinion around on PB. I just really didn't think it was 3/3 in <PK, Juls, ABR>.

ALAS ALACK ALAY.

Sorry BBT for my bad read.

[Green Crayons]

Dammit! That's why I went for what I thought was the 3rd obvscum. I wanted to get kicked off the island via a NK so I wouldn't have to untangle to the PK/ABR/Juls knot.

Nice modding, btw, Kalimar. I think the setup was fine, balance wise, even if it did have the potential to be an uphill climb for scum - but scum always have an uphill climb in low-power PR games and an early scum flip.

[Green Crayons]

My hemhawing weakness is bad.

[Green Crayons]

Zoro, apart from your tunnel, I'd say you did pretty good.

At some point you gotta look elsewhere. Also, be more obnoxious about people ignoring you.

And if you think you're super right? Like, you gotta be

really obnoxious

.

It's pretty clutch when you're actually right about scum.