Mini 1679: Baccano! Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:15 am

Post by Kalimar »

In post 517, Mainez wrote:
In post 506, Kalimar wrote:
vote: west9


if there is a vig, it claims today or i will not believe in it subsequently

are you saying that the vig made the second kill? why can a vig kill an immortal?


... why not the first kill fypov?
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:35 am

Post by Varsoon »

Yeah, in the flavor, there are immortal beings--and they are the only ones who can kill other immortal beings.
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:37 am

Post by Varsoon »

Oh. I also thought my predecessor claimed this, but apparently not.
I'm hated. This means I take one less vote to lynch.
This goes away in LYLO.
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:41 pm

Post by Mainez »

In post 525, Kalimar wrote:
In post 517, Mainez wrote:
In post 506, Kalimar wrote:
vote: west9


if there is a vig, it claims today or i will not believe in it subsequently

are you saying that the vig made the second kill? why can a vig kill an immortal?


... why not the first kill fypov?

because i always assume that scum gets a kill - the first kill. and the 2nd happens for other reasons. i don't have much experience so i'm asking you if that's what you're saying/implying.
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:19 pm

Post by Jazzmyn »

I have never seen a town role called "Dealer" before, nor a town role called "Conditional Distraction" so I am not sure what those entail but a bit of googling makes me wonder if the "Dealer" might be something akin to an "Arms Dealer" who can receive a list of the number and types of weapons in use or, perhaps, akin to a "Merchandizer" type of role who deals in wares, and makes me wonder if the "Distraction" role might be akin to an "Escort" role who can distract a player at night to block their target from using their role's night ability (aka Town Roleblocker).

It may not matter all that much now since they have been NK'd but it may at least be useful to consider the nature of their roles in terms of assessing game balance in an effort to suss out possible scum roles and numbers.
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:15 pm

Post by ToastyToast »

Alright so, idk if any of you have ever seen my scum theory thingy, but I generally see scum as fitting one of 3 categories. More likely than not, there is one of each. The potential of a third party complicates this somewhat, but bear with me. Note that I'm putting everyone into groups. This is how I narrow down potential lynches (granted, I'm usually not so transparent on this, but I figure it could get conversation going again).

The Outspoken leader: at least one scum will feel like they NEED to talk a great deal in order to establish town cred. The people currently in this category are slim, thanks to the slow day one. Nonetheless, there are people who are pushing more than others.

-JohnnyFarrar, Jazzmyn/tsq, notquitehere, ToastyToast

The Sheep/Background Player: Tends to either be someone who always goes with the majority, or just pop in and out of conversations. Not one to force cases, but the first to agree. Scum in this category tend to buddy more than town players. I consider this different from active lurking

-BROseidon, Mainez, Varsoon/Domino,

The Lurker/LynchBait: This person goes WAY into the background OR gets used as an easy lynch that'll probably happen anyway. Scum will join this wagon in order to gain towncred. Can be very powerful in a situation with a lot of lurkers, as it is hard to point suspicion at any one person.

-West9/Hydrangea, Aristophanes (he was active at first, but I'd consider him a lurker at this point), Kalimar,

Also, I would almost guarantee that scum have at least one bulletproof fake claim, since we already know there are multiples (that can be killed).

Other things:
-Varsoon's claim makes me thing he's town. How often are scum given hated status? I've never seen it. If hated Scummie is a really rare occurrence, then that would leave BRO and Mainez alone in the sheep category
-Jazzmyn is making me feel slightly more comfortable with that slot, but I still would put them at the top of the "outspoken leader" grouping
-The people in the lurker group need to step up if they are town, and all need to get pushed.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac

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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:42 am

Post by JohnnyFarrar »

Guys I love you and everything and I haven't forgot you, but I'm sort of living and breathing e3 right now. Will be here to play later on in the week.
Phone posting. Low effort, big fun.
"In my heart, Johnny will always be scum" - Not_Mafia
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:16 am

Post by Aristophanes »

I hate having to proddodge, yet here I am...
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:43 am

Post by West9 »

In post 531, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Guys I love you and everything and I haven't forgot you, but I'm sort of living and breathing e3 right now. Will be here to play later on in the week.

+1
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:42 pm

Post by ToastyToast »

well, good turnout you all!
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac

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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:36 pm

Post by notquitethere »

Finally get a chance to post and I'm disappointed by the lack of content.

I'm going to follow up my D1 suspicions on...

VOTE: Broseidon

I'm still stuck on my phone, up in the hills; I'll be back for a proper read through later in the week.

--

Varsoom, why claim that now?

Toast, interesting theory. How well has it held out in previous games?
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:29 am

Post by Varsoon »

Why claim it later?
I didn't realize it was unclaimed.
In my experience, Hated claims immediately so that they can avoid awkward lynch scenarios that might come up.
Now people know that if they wanna put me at L-1, its gonna be one vote earlier than normal.
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:56 am

Post by Mainez »

tomorrow, apologies
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:09 am

Post by Kalimar »

mm ditto.
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:21 pm

Post by Jazzmyn »

In post 529, Jazzmyn wrote:I have never seen a town role called "Dealer" before, nor a town role called "Conditional Distraction" so I am not sure what those entail but a bit of googling makes me wonder if the "Dealer" might be something akin to an "Arms Dealer" who can receive a list of the number and types of weapons in use or, perhaps, akin to a "Merchandizer" type of role who deals in wares, and makes me wonder if the "Distraction" role might be akin to an "Escort" role who can distract a player at night to block their target from using their role's night ability (aka Town Roleblocker).

It may not matter all that much now since they have been NK'd but it may at least be useful to consider the nature of their roles in terms of assessing game balance in an effort to suss out possible scum roles and numbers.

Any comments? Anyone?

In post 530, ToastyToast wrote:Alright so, idk if any of you have ever seen my scum theory thingy, but I generally see scum as fitting one of 3 categories. More likely than not, there is one of each.

I've seen worse theories. That said, the "scum theory thingy" you've described appears equally applicable to townies, so I am not sure how much utility it has beyond simply characterizing players as either being active, following others, or deliberately lurking. If you intended it to mean more than that, then please elaborate.
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:55 pm

Post by Jazzmyn »

In post 531, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Guys I love you and everything and I haven't forgot you, but I'm sort of living and breathing e3 right now. Will be here to play later on in the week.


In post 532, Aristophanes wrote:I hate having to proddodge, yet here I am...


In post 533, West9 wrote:
+1


In post 537, Mainez wrote:tomorrow, apologies


In post 538, Kalimar wrote:mm ditto.


With this level of non-participation, the game appears destined to die of apathy. Which would be sad.
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:11 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Doubtful, there's just not much movement right now. Scum are keeping a low profile and rightfully so.
Can we lynch a person?
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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:16 pm

Post by ToastyToast »

In post 535, notquitethere wrote:Toast, interesting theory. How well has it held out in previous games?

Well I'm rarely this transparent about it so it could turn out differently, but I tend to figure out 2/3rds of a given scum team? Which is why I think the model works way better after getting at least one scum lynch. Before that, there is too much specualtion.

In post 539, Jazzmyn wrote:I've seen worse theories. That said, the "scum theory thingy" you've described appears equally applicable to townies, so I am not sure how much utility it has beyond simply characterizing players as either being active, following others, or deliberately lurking. If you intended it to mean more than that, then please elaborate.


It is equally applicable townies, but it is a theory about group dynamics. So I separated the players into 3 groups. A scum team will never have 3 active, agenda setting players. They will never all treat one another as easy lynches to gain town cred, and they will never all sheep.

Why?

Well, having three people on a team going balls to the wall in a game will lead them to conflict when they should be working together. Consequently, such a strategy would make risk outweigh reward.
Generally, when leadership is established within a group, others will fill in to supportive roles rather than attempt to challenge that leadership.

You can't have any followers or sheep without a leader. Additionally, having three from this team means scum would never be able to force an agenda. That gives way too much power to the town. So, someone is bound to step up (but followers also have the ability to "lead" in much more stealthy ways).

And if you have 3 scum lurking, the game will stagnate. The only way it works is if nearly everyone is a lurker (unfortunately, this game does give me those vibes sometimes). At some point, a lurker will get targeted, and if they flip scum, you have to look at the reactions and interactions with that lynch. Scum are going to be more than willing to get someone in this category lynched because they contribute little to the team anyway, and towncred will become more important than somehow keeping that member alive.

In conclusion:

JohnnyFarrar, Jazzmyn/tsq, notquitehere is definitely not the scum team
Neither is BROseidon, Mainez, Varsoon/Domino
-West9/Hydrangea, Aristophanes, Kalimar would be a very dysfunctional scum team if it exists.

Even though it is risky thanks to lack of information, I think it would be best to figure out who within the lurkers is the scummiest. This is mostly because they are killing this game anyway.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac

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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:17 pm

Post by ToastyToast »

@Varsoon: What are your thoughts on Kalimar?
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac

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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:13 pm

Post by Varsoon »

@Toast: I'm iffy on the slot. I like his engagement when he's engaged, but I can't get a genuine read one way or the other on him.

I like your 542 post.
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:18 pm

Post by Jazzmyn »

In post 542, ToastyToast wrote:
In post 539, Jazzmyn wrote:I've seen worse theories. That said, the "scum theory thingy" you've described appears equally applicable to townies, so I am not sure how much utility it has beyond simply characterizing players as either being active, following others, or deliberately lurking. If you intended it to mean more than that, then please elaborate.


It is equally applicable townies, but it is a theory about group dynamics. So I separated the players into 3 groups.
...

(snipped for brevity of quoting, but the content is good)
That makes sense to me.

In post 543, ToastyToast wrote:@Varsoon: What are your thoughts on Kalimar?

This wasn't directed to me but I will respond nonetheless as there appears to be little else going on in this game. Kalimar is on my top three list for lynching today.
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:01 pm

Post by Kalimar »

In post 528, Mainez wrote:
In post 525, Kalimar wrote:
In post 517, Mainez wrote:
In post 506, Kalimar wrote:
vote: west9


if there is a vig, it claims today or i will not believe in it subsequently

are you saying that the vig made the second kill? why can a vig kill an immortal?


... why not the first kill fypov?

because i always assume that scum gets a kill - the first kill. and the 2nd happens for other reasons. i don't have much experience so i'm asking you if that's what you're saying/implying.


no, i'm saying i don't think those are town-generated kills
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:02 pm

Post by Kalimar »

i'm moving house, i'll be limited access for a few days.
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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:04 pm

Post by Kalimar »

role spec isn't interesting.

i recommend everyone either puts their vote down, says if they don't have any suspects, or at least voices their suspects if they're the type to hold their vote
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:31 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

Apologies. I am rereading right now. Post soonish.
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