Mini 1679: Baccano! Mafia - Game Over

[Varsoon]

Hey guys, I'm town, what's the beef?

[Varsoon]

Oh, well, I haven't caught up with this game yet, if that's anything for anything.
I can tell you that I'm town, though! I might even get a chance to prove it soon!!
So that's gotta be worth, i'unno, something.

[Varsoon]

Sorry for my low content so far/no catchup/whatevs~

It's been a busy week! But, I am here.
@Aristophanes: I don't know, I actually feel like BRO is one of the players who is good enough to control their play across games. I wouldn't let experience with him from other games equate to a false correlation/ideas about his alignment. Just judge based off of what he's doing in this game. BRO's also exceptional at reading aggro and avoiding it when he needs to (as both alignments). So, in this game? I'm critical of how he's riding things out here. I'd be happy with a BRO lynch, tbh.

Is there anything in particular I should pay attention to on reading through?

[Varsoon]

how much of the game had you read when you came to the determination that bro was a good lynch?

about 12 pages.
I'm actually really cool with a CooLDoG lynch here and I'll even claim

intent to hammer, give us a Claim, CooLDoG.

It bothers me that there's so many claims D1, but I'll be able to verify them pretty soon so it'll be okay.

[Varsoon]

UNVOTE:

Just noticed that Domino still had a vote parked on West for some reason.
I ain't about that.

[Varsoon]

Welp.
No flip from Johnny?
:l

[Varsoon]

So... are both TSQ and Johnny Bulletproof?
Or what?

[Varsoon]

Yeah, in the flavor, there are immortal beings--and they are the only ones who can kill other immortal beings.

[Varsoon]

Oh. I also thought my predecessor claimed this, but apparently not.
I'm hated. This means I take one less vote to lynch.
This goes away in LYLO.

[Varsoon]

Why claim it later?
I didn't realize it was unclaimed.
In my experience, Hated claims immediately so that they can avoid awkward lynch scenarios that might come up.
Now people know that if they wanna put me at L-1, its gonna be one vote earlier than normal.

[Varsoon]

Doubtful, there's just not much movement right now. Scum are keeping a low profile and rightfully so.
Can we lynch a person?

[Varsoon]

@Toast: I'm iffy on the slot. I like his engagement when he's engaged, but I can't get a genuine read one way or the other on him.

I like your 542 post.

[Varsoon]

Hey! It's Big The Cat!
I kinda don't know what do.

[Varsoon]

I'm town.
Just not incredibly motivated.

[Varsoon]

I think the general apathy in this game is bad news. We should drum up some movement so we're not so mired down.
I just don't know who to wagon, really.

[Varsoon]

I don't know why there's such a push to lynch Kalimar, actually. He doesn't seem that much worse from anyone else.
I'll join on anyway. Why not take the game somewhere, y'know?
VOTE: Kalimar

[Varsoon]

Ahah, knew it. <3

[Varsoon]

Also, the flavor of the show had plenty of antagonists that were both immortal and not.

[Varsoon]

I don't really understand all this positioning to vote against Big the Cat with no one actually doing it.
There's a lot of talk this game but little movement.

[Varsoon]

I think the best way to move this game forward is if everyone, and I mean everyone, provides a simple reads-list.

[Varsoon]

Putting it like Big, there.

Scum:

Kalimar
NQT
Hydrangea/West9 slot

Mainez
Toast
Johnny F

TSQ/Jazzmyn slot
Big the Cat
Aristophanes

Town:

I just don't really have much a grasp on this game. I'd like to see more flips, but I really wish I could work with the three we already have. I feel like there's something I'm missing but I don't know what it is.

[Varsoon]

To be honest, I don't have much confidence in any of my reads. Everyone feels really nebulous and all over the place.
It feels like people post but don't say anything that I can really latch onto. It's just all standoffish affirmations.

Here's a better plan.
Everyone submit a list of three players they would want to lynch.
Then we can vote in those lists?
I just want the game to move in some direction, because this stagnation will not stand.
1. Kalimar
2. Mainez
3. NQT

[Varsoon]

As much as I'm not a fan of NQT, I don't really like how that wagon is shaping up.

[Varsoon]

Not a huge fan of his responses--I've generally liked his wagon and disliked the proposed counterwagons.

[Varsoon]

Not a huge fan of his responses--I've generally liked his wagon and disliked the proposed counterwagons.

other than nqt, who is your second-strongest scumread, where are the other proposed counterwagon

s

?

given you're anti-NQT wagon because of me and west on it, what counterwagon(s)

would

you endorse?

the similarity of your reads list with BTC's is frankly eerie.

Mainez, honestly, but that's more a gut read than anything.
I'd be -really- happy with a Mainez lynch. Just feels right to me.
I think BTC and I did the same sort of VCA.

[Varsoon]

Looked at the CooLDoG wagon all the way up to lynch, then considered voteflow otherwise and in regards to the NK.
I'm operating on the basis that scum was on the wagon, given the flip.

[Varsoon]

You've seen my reads and the people I want lynched.
Given the info and the interactions there, this is the point I've arrived at.

Mainez, who do you want to lynch? Why?

[Varsoon]

Logically, you're not my highest scum-read. That's why when asked to make a reads-list, you fall more towards the middle.
You are the first on the CooLDoG wagon at time of lynch (generally considered a town place to be even on a mislynch) and your play has mostly been engaged with people who engage you.

But when it comes down to people that I want to lynch and writing up people that I wanted to lynch, I had you higher. I just feel like you're scum. I feel like you got in early on the CooLDoG wagon and didn't budge on it and it ended up in a mislynch where you came out looking better for it. I don't like your reaction to people that much. Everyone's really dispassionate this game, but you feel like you're walking on eggshells especially. Why should I worry that you're feeling uneasy about me? You can just come out be direct that my desire to vote you despite not highly scumreading you is pinging and that you're leaning me scum for it.

VOTE: Mainez
Maybe if I vote for you, the game will actually move.
I can't stand this stagnation.

[Varsoon]

Well, that's good, but it doesn't do much to diffuse me.

[Varsoon]

Wagon's gross. Maybe I'll check the ISO again?

[Varsoon]

Nah, I actually like NQT a whole bunch after looking at the ISO. There's nice consistency and style. There's a lot of work where scum wouldn't need to be thinking things out either.
I mean, I hate-hate-hate the late jump onto CooLDoG, but that's that.
I wanna sort him out tonight, if I get the chance. :33333

[Varsoon]

Yeah, holey moley, can we get a lynch on Mainez tho?

[Varsoon]

It's not like I don't understand NQT's push against Big--it's mostly the remnant of a push against BROseidon.

I just like my vote where it is, finally.

I think we're all going to have to concede to a wagon soon. Deadline's approaching fast.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Kalimar

Then I'm fine here.

[Varsoon]

Most asses do have cheeks, Johnny.

[Varsoon]

I would lynch Big over a no lynch, yes.
I'd rather Kalimar though.

[Varsoon]

<3

[Varsoon]

Big's town, by the way.

[Varsoon]

I'm never lynching Big.

[Varsoon]

Two more for Kalimar is all we need.
Do it to it.

[Varsoon]

That's what the baddies want!

[Varsoon]

[Varsoon]

Looks like Jazzy J wasn't as bulletproof as the slot claimed.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: NQT

I hope this isn't LYLO of some sort.

[Varsoon]

actually
VOTE: Johnny

I actually really like you in this game, NQT.
I'm paranoid about Big. He directly crumbed something to me that makes me want to never lynch him, but I know for a fact that when we've hydra'd in the past we've made use of crumbs as both scum and town. I feel like he could be trying to appeal to me unfairly, but I really don't want to lynch Big, against what is maybe better judgment?

[Varsoon]

Ummm, NQT, I think Immortals flipped so far were town-alligned.

[Varsoon]

Big makes explicit reference to Xiao Long and On Another Level in two of his posts so far.
In a game that I ran,

Varsoon Mafia

, On Another Level was a lie-detector role that was able to function sort of like a cop, but had a post restriction. This role was played by Xiao Long, who actually had role-related info condemning half of the scum team. Town never listened to him and the game ended in a scum-win. Being 'On Another Level' also refers to my own (essentially absurd) 'levels' theory, where I postulate that players play on different 'levels' of WIFOM engagement.

Varsoon. Don't vote Mainez, she's not scum. I can sort her pretty well anyway. Trust me on this.

NQT highly scum. Kalimar too. Gut scumreading Kalimar, but objectively NQT is more likely to be scum. I'm On Another Level.

-Sonic

@all, really
What do you think about Kalimar lying?

I wouldn't be very surprised a-yup~

Like how Sonic would appear at my house whenever I'm cooking Xiao Long Buns and Chili Dogs a-yup~ They'd disappear yup~

Nothing new!!~

~Big

<3

Big's town, by the way.

I'm never lynching Big.

[Varsoon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6607588

In that game, Xiao Long had explicit role-info that let him know that Cheetory had been recruited by the cult.

I'm assuming by the way that Big has been hard-defending Mainez and hard-pushing NQT, he's maybe got an innocent/guilty.
I don't know.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: NQT

Basically, I may be stupid, but, hey, I'll follow Big to my stupid death.

[Varsoon]

ok i clicked the link and that is one really weird role...

Pretty much every role that game was really weird/bastard. That was the point.
Essentially, he was a lie-detector for WIFOM with the post restriction that he had to post in a way that made him essentially impossible to understand.
He was able to use this as an investigative role, though, by simply having players post 'I am town' and investigating that post.

[Varsoon]

What it boils down to is that I think, based on the crumb, Big is also a lie detector or investigative role of some sort.

I also think, maybe, this should indicate that I'm not scum, since I didn't fuckin' kill Big despite clearly knowing this.

[Varsoon]

CooLDoG, BROseidon, and Cheetory were all in there. I can't recall off the top of my head if anyone else in this game was.

Plenty of people watched that game, too. On top of that, I kinda made it clear that based on those crumbs I knew Big was town, which might've been a flag for whoever blocked him?

I'm actually a deflecting role, myself. I've been deflecting any ability that targets me so that it would target Jazzmyn's slot instead. Why? Jazzmyn claimed to be bulletproof. I was kinda hoping this could prevent a Night Kill. I've done this action every night so far.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: unvote
I, too, want to see Big's claim laid out.
I've chosen to believe him so far because of the specificity of his crumb in regards to me, explicitly. It was very much a means of indicating only to me that he had a potentially investigative role.

I also follow you on flavor. I mentioned the same thing earlier--there is very likely an immortal player capable of killing other immortals.
We have yet to see any flips from other 'villains' of the series, though. There very likely may be a scum team yet?

PEDIT: Oh, makes sense. Rolecop.
VOTE: NQT
I'll follow on this.

[Varsoon]

I'm leaning towards voting NQT here.
His flip informs further lynches really well given claims now.

[Varsoon]

Why are you fearmongering over this being LYLO?
:l
You know who can crumb things too? Scum.
:l

[Varsoon]

In literally every themed game I've played, scum have been given fake-claims that are flavor-fitting and that can be claimed without counterclaim.

I can see you AND Big being town.
I think maybe we should just hunt elsewhere than you two.

[Varsoon]

So, there's scum within Mainez and Aristophanes
And then there's likely two scum between West9, Toast, JohnnyFarrar

You guys figure it out.
I promise you that I'm town.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, mostly because of who was on the lynches.
I'm pretty sure I unvoted you, but for good measure;
VOTE: UNVOTE
UNVOTE:

[Varsoon]

Basically, I redirect all abilities away from myself and onto other people.
I'm not gonna claim if I'm immortal or not, because, y'know, that's important shit to keep secret, I feel.
So don't claim your character if you can avoid it.

[Varsoon]

Rolecop seems like it could honestly be a scum role and tends to be involved in role madness/theme games a lot.

[Varsoon]

inb4 that's a slip from Aristo or something.

I think the ability is compulsive. I guess I could just not submit an action and I'd just be affected normally?
So I was leaning scum on my read of the jazzmyn slot for some reason so I was hoping an investigate would hit me and then transfer to Jazzmyn so I could be sure.
But really, I ultimately decided on Jazzmyn for each night so far because Jazzmyn claimed Bulletproof (which I thought was definitely -not- immortal but actual BP) and so I figured, "Why not make us both BP?"

[Varsoon]

Just checked, it's not compulsive. But, yeah, every night I can redirect anything that would target me onto another player.
I've been hoping to either get a lying scum jazzmyn killed/targeted or prevent an NK by redirecting to a truthful town BP jazzmyn.
So, like, y'know.

[Varsoon]

Well, Aristophanes, my ability would likely -also- fail to target you.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, I think a massclaim is prudent.
I'm Claire, the Rail Tracer.
Due to flavor, I thought I would almost certainly be a third party, but I'm aligned with town.
I'm hated. This goes away in LYLO. For those who don't know, it means it takes one less vote than normal to lynch me.
I can also redirect any actions performed on me to another player each night.
My night action has been targeting the Jazzmyn slot consistently due to their BP claim and because I was unsure of their alignment.

[Varsoon]

So, Dallas actually becomes an immortal at one point in the series (to be fair, A LOT of characters do). He's also a real prick and gets into fights all the time.
But then he gets given cement shoes and cast into the bottom of a river or something. One character's entire arc revolves around trying to find him because they are siblings. They finally find him and he's still alive, despite the torture of constantly drowning.
So the perma-commuter thing could be a reference to how he's literally hidden underwater for a lot of the show and no one can find him.

[Varsoon]

So, there's this potion that people brewed to become immortal. I imagine that the immortals in this game are all the 'original' immortals, people who were among the first to drink the potion.
Over the course of the show, however, someone manages to brew another potion, and several characters end up drinking it, most of them without even realizing that it isn't just regular alcohol.
Dallas is one of those characters. He beats up the guy who made the potion and drinks some (thinking its just wine or booze), and soon after is kidnapped by a rival gang and given cement shoes.
It isn't until the end of the show that they finally fish him up out of the water.

[Varsoon]

Well, how else are you going to kill a guy if you're in the mafia?

[Varsoon]

Basically, because they killed him exactly in that fashion, that's why he was stuck at the bottom of the river/lake or wherever they dumped him.
If they would've just shot him, he would've recovered from the wounds.
The people that dumped him thought he wad dead though--they weren't aware he was immortal.

[Varsoon]

I think it gets revealed in Episode 13.
He gets put into a big oil barrel and cemented inside or something like that.
The show's opening actually kinda references this when he's shown, as he turns and smiles and then looks like he's drowning.

Honestly, the show is really fun and good--the first episode is way different than a lot of the other ones, though. It's kind of a meta-commentary by two characters on how the story of the show should be told, because there are three different plot lines that happen.

[Varsoon]

I'd say to go for it! Like I said, the first episode (and maybe even first few) can be confusing. Just try to remember there's four different plots;
1. The Past where everyone is on a boat in 1711
2. The mafia gangwars and resurgence of the immortality elixir of 1930
3. The events on the Flying Pussyfoot train in 1931
4. Dallas' sister is trying to find Dallas in 1932

It's

really

obvious when they flashback to the stuff on the boat, and the stuff on the train tends to be a bit clear once you figure out they're on a train. However, it can be a bit easy to mix up the events that happen with the gangs and immortals before and after the train stuff.

[Varsoon]

Waiting on it.
I just took a dump, myself.
You know that really satisfied feeling you get when you're done?
I love that feeling.

[Varsoon]

I think that after we are all done fullclaiming, you should confirm the amount of immortals left in the game.
You should also try to make people immortal to save them from the night kill, if possible.
I honestly don't know how much I care for the whole roping in the third party thing, because it could be very possible that you're just scum or something.
Still /shrug.

[Varsoon]

Yeah! Charts!

[Varsoon]

Yeah, Big really, really worries me.

[Varsoon]

Rolecop seems like a perfect scum role to have given the town-sided priming ability and the SK who can only eat immortals.
In some insane world, I'd even wager that Johnny and Big are scum partners, with Big's role allowing Johnny to get info that enables him to kill immortals.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, honestly, I think we should lynch Johnny and move from there.
Town's already shot themselves in the foot enough.

Weigh the pros and cons:
Even if we get really lucky and lynch a mafia member today, there's still likely another one out there that can deliver a kill.
If we don't lynch Johnny, there's potential of two kills this night phase. That's not cool.
Lynching Johnny gives us really useful mod-confirmed info.

I can understand the scum thought of 'shit we need to get rid of this guy who could kill us', but he can also kill town, and that's more worrisome, imo.

[Varsoon]

What anime character is most like a lift?
Kira, 'cus he's an L-evader.

[Varsoon]

Unless he's, like, strongman or some shit. :l
I'd like to lynch out of Toast and Mainez.
I like NQT, West, and Aristo's posting too much, I guess?
I'm hesitant to really lynch out of Big/Johnny if we can avoid it.

[Varsoon]

Yessss chartssss
Thank you, though, seriously. :3

[Varsoon]

Yeah, seriously, it's FAR TOO RISKY to just assume that Johnny will be able to eat Big tonight.
I say we lynch someone outside those two, but /shrug?

[Varsoon]

I'm worried with how other people have situated their opinions on who should be voted/killed in the last 3 pages.
I'd be okay with a big lynch, but I also really worry that loses us the game too.

[Varsoon]

Hm.
Been thinking long and hard about it and the highest payout play we can make is lynching Johnny. It's the lowest risk play, period.
That said, we may be in a situation where only high risk play lets town win.
So, eh, fuggit.
VOTE: Johnny

[Varsoon]

That's if you're telling the whole truth.

[Varsoon]

Also, eeeeeh
VOTE: TSQ

[Varsoon]

While I really like TSQ's play, the 'enabler' thing and the claim bother me a lot.
Whereas I actually feel paranoid about Big's claim and role, his play and crumbs to me make me believe him a bit more.

[Varsoon]

So, assuming we have no lying coming from Johnny,
we lynch NQT. On a townflip, we let Johnny eat Big
On a scumflip, we roleblock Johnny.
That'd cover our bases?

[Varsoon]

I'm trying to think this through, Toast.
We essentially have to figure out a handful of things;

Is Johnny lying? If so, we absolutely must lynch him or we lose.
If he's not lying, then;
Who is scum? Big and NQT both make sense for scum, but so do a handful of other players.

I'm not sure what we should do. I think we're honestly screwed, given the circumstances, and we should just gamble on a lynch outside of Johnny.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: NotQuiteThere
Silly shortenings.

[Varsoon]

I just tripped out thinking this was my SU game and you just sniped a VC from me. I was gonna have to wave a fist at ya, cheetory.

[Varsoon]

Doin' it.

[Varsoon]

Both your abilities make sense for scum, by the by.

[Varsoon]

We've played together. I've seen how he's crumbed and claimed abilities as scum and as town. As much as people give Metal Sonic a hard time, the dude's really perceptive and capable when it comes to the game. Yeah, he could be faking and playing me like a card, but his claim feels genius.
Besides, literally no one else claimed they had an 'enabled' power.
Also, guys, aren't LITERALLY ALL of the kills thanks to vengeful and the so-called SK?
Why are we even assuming there's a scumteam?
We should just lynch johnny. Dude's lying.

[Varsoon]

You could also enable a scum power.
Whatever, it really doesn't matter what I say in this game. I've tried pushing what I think plenty and no one gives a damn.
It sucks, because I really feel like even if I do figure things out, no one will follow me onto a lynch. Everyone's being super clingy with their votes when chances are we need like all of town to vote for scum in order to win anyway.

[Varsoon]

It was was too obvious big was town.
We should've lynched NQT. :/

Dat swinginess. Ah well. Cool roles.
Mainez obv-scum, too.

Fun stuff.

[Varsoon]

It's cool, MS. I got too paranoid and should've had your back more.
We both needed to be less sketchy, I think.