Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Akuseru]

That being said, what do you think of Jguy's push, misconstruing the reasoning behind my push? Saying I don't have my own reasons?

He's welcome to his opinion/guess. I don't see it as misconstruing since i can't confirm your reasoning. From my pov its just your word against his.

[VeeGee]

That's the shortest RVS I've ever seen.

I'm leaning town on notscience.

VeeGee, do you have any mafia experience?

Not much, though I have played a couple of Marathon games.

[stoz]

but saying "hi" is the most innocuous, neutral thing a player can say.

I think that might be the point, that scum would say the most neutral thing possible.

For those truly new to the site, it took me until half way through my first game to figure out the links at the very bottom of the page. If you haven't seem them already, there is a "Subscribe Topic" button down the bottom left which will send you emails whenever there is a new post in the thread. In the middle under the "quick reply" box there isa dropdown that lets you view all post in the thread by a single user which people call ISO (isolation). Finally in the bottom right corner under the pagination buttons there is an "Activity Overview" link which shows you how recently each person has posted in the thread. Hopefully that helps someone.

[VeeGee]

but saying "hi" is the most innocuous, neutral thing a player can say.

I think that might be the point, that scum would say the most neutral thing possible.

Wouldn't a scum want to appear town, rather than neutral?

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1.2

MEAN TWEETS

VeeGee

(2): HenryCabotLodge, notscience

HenryCabotLodge

(1): VeeGee

notscience

(1): JoramvanVugt

Not Voting

(5): stoz, ellio140, StubbsKVM, Akuseru, Micc

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: July 19, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-07-18 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[HenryCabotLodge]

Let me answer your question with another-

How do you expect to get out of RVS with a bandwagon for the sake of getting RVS?

I'm serious about my vote. I know it's strange, but given how much we've had thus far, that is the avenue I believe scum is most likely found behind. Maybe it's overanalysis, I've been known to do it before, but I've also been right when overanalyzing before, so.

I expect bandwagoning for its own sake to work because there are different reactions to a bandwagon that we can work through as a town. We can see who hops on opportunistically, we can see who opposes it, we can see who posts a thesis on the legitimacy of the bandwagon, etc.- the point is that bandwagoning is a viable, and beneficial, way to get out of RVS. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to meticulously dissect the very first post by a player in the game that amounts to nothing more than a simple greeting.

but saying "hi" is the most innocuous, neutral thing a player can say.

I think that might be the point, that scum would say the most neutral thing possible.

Wouldn't a scum want to appear town, rather than neutral?

I think everybody has different views as to what "townie", "neutral", and "scummy" play is. I don't think it does much good to get bogged down in semantics and personal definitions. I think the only thing that works in a game like this is finding logical inconsistencies and examining voting patterns. You can do any amount of intellectual gymnastics to make any person's play seem townie or scummy.

[VeeGee]

UNVOTE: HCL

[Akuseru]

I'm not sure how beneficial it is to meticulously dissect the very first post by a player in the game

that amounts to nothing more than a simple greeting

.

Why does your vote remain?

[HenryCabotLodge]

I'm not sure how beneficial it is to meticulously dissect the very first post by a player in the game

that amounts to nothing more than a simple greeting

.

Why does your vote remain?

Because he's not in any real danger of being lynched and I don't think anybody else is worth voting for now that we're out of RVS. Also laziness/neglect- it didnt't even occur to me to unvote yet this early on.

[notscience]

I expect bandwagoning for its own sake to work because there are different reactions to a bandwagon that we can work through as a town. We can see who hops on opportunistically, we can see who opposes it, we can see who posts a thesis on the legitimacy of the bandwagon, etc.- the point is that bandwagoning is a viable, and beneficial, way to get out of RVS. I'm not sure how beneficial it is to meticulously dissect the very first post by a player in the game that amounts to nothing more than a simple greeting.

Ultimately my issue is, if you know that there is a bandwagon on you for the sake of bandwagoning, it's hard to garner any real reaction out of it. While yes, we can see who joins and opposes it, what separates the "LOLBANDWAGON" from a scum hiding? What separates "I'm not feeling this wagon" from scum avoiding the wagon?

[fferyllt]

Thespio replaces ellio140. Please welcome him!

[Thespio]

Hey, Im reading over this and then I post reads.

[Thespio]

Ok, here are my reads for D1, So far:

VeeGee

Spoiler:

Is not Stressed under Random Lynch from first post. Soft claims Town…

HenryCabotLodge

Spoiler:

Immidate vote for no reason indicates town at this point but does not clear them as town.
#30 makes me think they are more scum leaning, so I will be ok if we lynch him.

notscience

Spoiler:

Bandwagons, then gets SUUUPER defencive when questioned: #11, #18
This makes me think they are scummy although they do back their behavior, so i place them on my watch list...

Akuseru

Spoiler:

If scum, so is veegee. He seems genuinely town and opposes D1 Random lynch. At this time they are leaning town.

JoramvanVugt

Spoiler:

Not a very supported vote, I want an reason. #10, but no reason to think they are scum.

StubbsKVM

Spoiler:

NEWB shines through this slot, marking hesitantly as town

Micc

Spoiler:

Too Calm, urks me, I would like more info on Micc.

So I will be voting:
VOTE: HenryCabotLodge

[Thespio]

Thoughts?

[Akuseru]

HenryCabotLodge

Immidate vote for no reason indicates town at this point but does not clear them as town.
#30 makes me think they are more scum leaning, so I will be ok if we lynch him.

Where exactly in his post makes you think he might be scum?

StubbsKVM

NEWB shines through this slot, marking hesitantly as town

What makes you think he's a one? Why would that make him more likely to be town?

Micc
Too Calm, urks me, I would like more info on Micc.[/spoiler]

How did you conclude they were "calm"? Why does it urk you?

[Thespio]

HenryCabotLodge

Immidate vote for no reason indicates town at this point but does not clear them as town.
#30 makes me think they are more scum leaning, so I will be ok if we lynch him.

Where exactly in his post makes you think he might be scum?

He is justifying his random vote, when in truth there is no justification because its random, at the same time he is claiming he is bandwagon while he is actually the one who started the bandwagon. I find this scummy.

StubbsKVM

NEWB shines through this slot, marking hesitantly as town

What makes you think he's a one? Why would that make him more likely to be town?

Honestly, his random chime in asking about experience is something I have only seen from a player who will attempt to justify a lynch. I hate when people try to make a claim based off. Its an annoying newbie thing to do, although he is kinda lurking so im watching him at this point.[/quote]

Micc
Too Calm, urks me, I would like more info on Micc.[/spoiler]

How did you conclude they were "calm"? Why does it urk you?

[/quote]
This is more of a gut feeling... its why i haven't given him town or scum assignment.

[Thespio]

@Akuseru, what are your scum reads so far?

[notscience]

Thespio-
Re: Veegee- Why would scum be stressed after 2 votes in RVS, the second of which everyone else jumps on? In fact, he had a very subdued 'yeah, what he said' comment after it. That looks rather stressed.

Re: Me- Sharing reasons for voting someone makes me scummy? And being defensive is null, it's a matter of playstyle. But, whatever.

re: Akuseru- Why do you keep calling it a random lynch? I've repeatedly stated my vote is serious. What about his play seems "genuinely town" and what makes you think hes only scum if veegee is scum?

Re Micc: "too calm?" He only has his generic IC intro and a promsie to catch up. I don't see how this can even be a thing.

[Thespio]

Thespio-
Re: Veegee- Why would scum be stressed after 2 votes in RVS, the second of which everyone else jumps on? In fact, he had a very subdued 'yeah, what he said' comment after it. That looks rather stressed.

Nah, he didnt freak out, so it wont strike against him.

Re: Me- Sharing reasons for voting someone makes me scummy? And being defensive is null, it's a matter of playstyle. But, whatever.

This 'Playstyle' is anti-town, and also unproductive, so more scum then town.

re: Akuseru- Why do you keep calling it a random lynch? I've repeatedly stated my vote is serious. What about his play seems "genuinely town" and what makes you think hes only scum if veegee is scum?

I said if he is scum so is veegee, not the other way around, he jumped to veegee's safety immediately, he is also more cautious which is pro town.

Re Micc: "too calm?" He only has his generic IC intro and a promsie to catch up. I don't see how this can even be a thing.

Are you vouching for him? because i didnt call him scum, but his posts make me nervous, more gut feeling than anything, as I stated.

If you arent opposed to HenryCabotLodge then lynching him shouldnt be an issue.

[StubbsKVM]

Thoughts?

I'm not a newbie.

Does green mean "town" and is yellow "null"? On your read of Joram, you say: no reason to think scum. However, you give no reason for reading him town.

Other than that, I am amazed at how fast you develop reads.

[StubbsKVM]

StubbsKVM

NEWB shines through this slot, marking hesitantly as town

What makes you think he's a one? Why would that make him more likely to be town?

Honestly, his random chime in asking about experience is something I have only seen from a player who will attempt to justify a lynch. I hate when people try to make a claim based off. Its an annoying newbie thing to do, although he is kinda lurking so im watching him at this point.

I asked about his experience because I wanted to relate it to notscience's criticism about the "Hello" post.
Most people just come in and Random vote. So NS is right about the "nervous" entrance.
However, as he admitted being new, this probably means nothing.

[StubbsKVM]

Thespio-
Re: Veegee- Why would scum be stressed after 2 votes in RVS, the second of which everyone else jumps on? In fact, he had a very subdued 'yeah, what he said' comment after it. That looks rather stressed.

Nah, he didnt freak out, so it wont strike against him.

Re: Me- Sharing reasons for voting someone makes me scummy? And being defensive is null, it's a matter of playstyle. But, whatever.

This 'Playstyle' is anti-town, and also unproductive, so more scum then town.

re: Akuseru- Why do you keep calling it a random lynch? I've repeatedly stated my vote is serious. What about his play seems "genuinely town" and what makes you think hes only scum if veegee is scum?

I said if he is scum so is veegee, not the other way around, he jumped to veegee's safety immediately, he is also more cautious which is pro town.

Re Micc: "too calm?" He only has his generic IC intro and a promsie to catch up. I don't see how this can even be a thing.

Are you vouching for him? because i didnt call him scum, but his posts make me nervous, more gut feeling than anything, as I stated.

If you arent opposed to HenryCabotLodge then lynching him shouldnt be an issue.

more cautious is pro town? Doesn't scum tend to be more afraid of being lynched, and therefore more cautious?

[notscience]

Nah, he didnt freak out, so it wont strike against him.

Would you freak out as scum at two votes, one that everyone else is questioning?

I wouldn't.

This 'Playstyle' is anti-town, and also unproductive, so more scum then town.

Nah.

I said if he is scum so is veegee, not the other way around, he jumped to veegee's safety immediately, he is also more cautious which is pro town.

Pro-town=/=town

Hell, the defending speaks more of aku's alignment. Interactions go two ways- you can't just say "oh well he defended him from 2 votes" Well can scum not defend town?

Are you vouching for him? because i didnt call him scum, but his posts make me nervous, more gut feeling than anything, as I stated.

If you arent opposed to HenryCabotLodge then lynching him shouldnt be an issue.

I've already expressed a townread on him. And I'm saying his posts making you nervous is bullshit, because he has post NOTHING of any relevance to the game at all. It's like saying you're scumreading teh mod for her rules posts. So no.

[notscience]

That being said, what do you think of Jguy's push, misconstruing the reasoning behind my push? Saying I don't have my own reasons?

He's welcome to his opinion/guess. I don't see it as misconstruing since i can't confirm your reasoning. From my pov its just your word against his.

But then again, irrational fear of the IC is usually a towntell.

So you're probably town.

[notscience]

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