UK Meet 2015 Invitational (Game Over)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #450 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:48 am

Post by Ampersand »

In post 448, Shanba wrote:Closing thoughts: I don't think I played this game very well, but honestly I am distrustful of anyone who HAS reads this game. Like, still.

But what do you think we should be doing then? Just fumbling around random-voting?

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Post Post #451 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:58 am

Post by Porochaz »

:(
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
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Post Post #452 (ISO) » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:59 am

Post by Patrick »

Final Votecount

Shanba (4) -- Ampersand, Porochaz, ChannelDelibird, Nexus
ChannelDelibird (1) -- Elmo
Porochaz (1) -- Shanba

Not voting: Tammy
7 alive, 4 to lynch.

Shanba - Vanilla Townie - lynched day 2


Night 2 starts, with a 48 hour deadline. Will update stuff after skype games are finished.
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Post Post #453 (ISO) » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:10 am

Post by Patrick »

Day 3 dawns to some very sad news:

Porochaz - Tracker - killed night 2


With only 5 of you alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch. You have until July 28th.
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Post Post #454 (ISO) » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:15 am

Post by Ampersand »

Massclaim?

Nominate Tammy to start.

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Post Post #455 (ISO) » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:48 am

Post by Nexus »

I would prefer you to start, to be fair.
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Post Post #456 (ISO) » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:20 am

Post by Ampersand »

We'd prefer Tammy to go first, because our claim isn't going tochange no matter what she claims, but hers might change dependent on ours.

We'll claim first only if you all would rather lynch us otherwise. We should see what Tammy says too. She might be happy to go first.

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Post Post #457 (ISO) » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:21 am

Post by Nexus »

Fair enough.
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Post Post #458 (ISO) » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:13 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Tammy first is my preference as well.
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Post Post #459 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:18 am

Post by Ampersand »

:?

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Post Post #460 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:03 pm

Post by Elmo »

Tammy first is fine.
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Post Post #461 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:05 pm

Post by Tammy »

Okay first things first, apparently I was posting in the wrong thread while exhausted/tipsy...

Subject: Micro 488: Forest Fire - Endgame

Tammy wrote:Oh actually, Prozac is kinda reminding me of him when he was a tracker in team mafia.



I have no problem going first and can you please stop acting like you have something on me when we both know you don't. My claim wouldn't change no matter where I went in the lineup.

I'm a vanilla townie.

Also, I'm sorry that I disappeared. I knew that I had company coming on Friday, but thought they were leaving on Saturday, which meant I could catch up here. I didn't expect to get back home late Sunday night. I'm also sorry that I missed deadline. I suck at time zones. Murica!

I need to catch up on the end of day yesterday and I promise I will do that tonight. I'm in the midst of a kitchen project, but I will catch up before I go to bed. If you guys could not just default on old Tammy scum models and think me not being around means scum and not just I had company and couldn't mafia, and give me a chance then maybe we still have a chance to win this.
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Post Post #462 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:19 pm

Post by Tammy »

Oh if we're in the middle of a mass claim I should probably hold off on thoughts, huh?

Also, CDB can go next.
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Post Post #463 (ISO) » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:41 pm

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Not sure which way round his affects your thoughts but I was the tracker in TM.

I'm a VT.

Elmo is next.
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Post Post #464 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:53 am

Post by Elmo »

Vanilla townie, Nexus next.
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Post Post #465 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:22 am

Post by Ampersand »

Nexus has pretty explicitly claimed VT already, so we'll just skip that and go to our claim. I was expecting some sort of meaningful town power somewhere, so this is a bit disappointing but I guess at least with us going last, scum didn't get to take advantage of that.

We are a Tourist.

On N1 we targetted Porochaz and on N2 we targetted ChannelDelibird. Our thinking was that 1) we wanted to, basically, not get tracked to the nightkill and 2) try to hit scum in case they happened to be a Mafia Reflexive Doctor because that seems like the most obvious interaction to actually be in the game. (On N1 we just picked the most suspicious person; on N2 we picked between CDb and Nexus since they'd both done something to indicate they weren't PRs.)

Although Tourist is not the most obviously useful role, I still think that our role does clearly need to be town from a balance perspective - my guess for the set-up right now is Tracker+Tourist+Mason vs. Mafia Reflexive Doctor which is like a weaker Tracker-Doctor set-up with the addition of 2 roles that can be weakly confirmed (Tourist by the Tracker and Mason by being in a non-Werewolf set-up). I'd rather have had balance clear someone else instead, but this will have to do for now.

(I might be biased in favour of Mafia Reflexive Doctors, admittedly; a Werewolf Gravedigger would also work as some extra town power but that set-up would really rely on the Tracker. If there is a Mafia Reflexive Doctor, that implicates Channel slightly for convoluted reasons but I think I'm the only one that will care about that so we'll just take that and the Tracker innocent and pretend neither exist and just look purely at behaviour.)

Now, let's find some scum. Personally I'm currently thinking Tammy > CDb > Elmo > Nexus but since we do need to find both scum, I think my first order of business will to read back and see which of {Tammy-CDb, Tammy-Elmo, CDb-Elmo} I find the most plausible scum team.
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Post Post #466 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:35 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

I believe the Tourist claim fairly unequivocally for balance reasons unless Nexus has a surprise coming.

Those reasons for your role implicating me reeeeeally would have to be supremely convoluted, but the tracker result on me also means nothing anyway so I guess it's a wash.

What did you expect from Tammy? Why is Nexus so town to you that he's not in your plausible scumteams? My first instinct coming into Today was to doubt my biggest reads, though Tammy/Elmo is necessarily my most likely pair now, especially after your claim.
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Post Post #467 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:48 am

Post by Nexus »

Yeah, VT.

Still concerned about Ampersand.
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Post Post #468 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:28 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

If Fences are lying, our town power is Tracker and a lone Mason. Not completely implausible, but I think it likely that there'd be at least something other than the nightkill for the tracker to track, and that other thing potentially being a scum power doesn't really seem to solve that satisfyingly. Tourist is low-powered enough to stop this game feeling like anything particularly madcap, could create doubt for the tracker, and has nice synergy with a reflexive doctor, which strikes as a good scum power for such a game.

I was ready to come into Today to seriously revisit Ampersand in case I was wrong on them but the claim really just makes me think that I was right.

I think it's Tammy and Elmo, basically.
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Post Post #469 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:41 am

Post by Nexus »

Why do we think we have a reflexive doctor again? I must've missed something.
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Post Post #470 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:43 am

Post by Ampersand »

In post 466, ChannelDelibird wrote:What did you expect from Tammy?

You and Nexus had both claimed VT or non-active roles. Tammy is perhaps the least familiar with the Greater Idea deck and with Patrick as a mod. She seemed like the best to push to go first as we figured Tammy-scum might be most likely to either claim something weird (that wouldn't fit well in the game) in anticipation of having to counter us, or to react in some way to the added pressure; or conversely, that Tammy-town making a claim that fitted really well would be a lot more believable. I also expected her to respond a bit more quickly than Elmo would (she was posting elsewhere on site), but that turned out to be wrong.

The fact that she was confident that we 'didn't have anything on her' made me think she's slightly more likely town, although CES is wondering if that is really the way she would respond if she is town. He thinks that her assumption that that's what we were doing could be more likely to come from a scum mindset. I'm still considering.

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Post Post #471 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:47 am

Post by Ampersand »

Other somewhat irrelevant facts about our role:

My inevitable thought upon first drawing this was that maybe it meant there was a Black Goo in the game, but then I realised that would be madness in a 9 player closed. We talked about crumbing at the start of D1 but I thought any direct mentions of Black Goos or PGO-cops would be too obvious. Wester suggesting something about our having 'four-eyes' between us, a reference to Twoflower, the Discworld character who wears glasses and is a tourist, but I a) thought this was too stretchy to be worthwhile, and b) never actually found the right opportunity to say it. (There was one point on D1 I remember lying in bed and thinking of the post I could write that it would fit into, but it didn't seem worth getting up to do it, and by next morning the moment had passed.)

Since the start of Day 2, I've had to hide the fact that I was half-hoping we'd be the one to die Night 1, which I thought was reasonably likely given that so many people had a purported town-read on us throughout D1. I didn't read the game overnight in part because this seemed so likely. I also felt bad for actually half-wanting to die in this game, because I've been struggling so much to get firm reads on people. I guess that's how it goes; you don't die when you are struggling and wouldn't mind no longer having an influence in the game; whereas when you have the game figured out and strong suspicions on who the scum are, they will kill you and then you have no way to control over the win.

But I didn't want to say that I'd been hoping we'd die because that basically confirms that we don't have a useful role. I don't know if I am ever as aware of this as a VT, but as a (useless) power role I've been constantly aware of trying not to make it obvious that we are useless.

My one crumb was the mention of 'reflexive doctor' in . I had originally added two other passive/negative roles in here (ninja, godfather) but I took them out to deliberately focus on the reflexive doctor, which had been our 'holy grail quest' in our night actions.

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Post Post #472 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:51 am

Post by Ampersand »

Thoughts from around Poro's claim:

One of the reasons I jumped to assuming Poro's claim was Town is because Town Tracker + Tourist just felt like a natural and likely combination to me. Then Wester pointed out that a Mafia Tracker and Tourist also worked well because if the tracker followed the tourist they might mistake them for a real power role and kill them, thus giving the tourist some actual value. I initially thought this was weird and a bit swingy (relies on a specific interaction), but I came around and it was one factor that influenced my conclusions from re-read at the end of Day 1, that Poro might still be scum.

After Poro got killed and flipped Town I was really expecting there to be some other town power role in the game, and am still a bit surprised that there isn't.

My 'plan' in was pretty much entirely:
a) try and look like a protective role who would prevent a kill on Poro, and thus get killed and not have to worry about the game any more;
b) boost morale, avoid looking hopeless;
c) exciting thoughts about our night actions in relation to the tracker, as follows:

At first we thought we would Visit Poro again on Night 2. This seemed quite neat, because the only way he would get a result on us targeting him is if he had't die, which would pretty much confirm us as town to him as best as I could tell (no scum role would have reason to target a claimed Tracker and have them still get a result). And even if he was a scum Tracker, we would know he had the Tracker action at least. (And if he wasn't a Tracker, yet claimed to have targeted us, we would find out he was lying!)

Later we came up with two flaws in this plan:
a) the possibility of there being two Town Trackers in the game;
b) the possibility of a bodyguard protection on Poro, whereby he would still see us target either him or the kill.

Hence we settled on CDB in the end instead.

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Post Post #473 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:00 am

Post by Ampersand »

In post 466, ChannelDelibird wrote:Why is Nexus so town to you that he's not in your plausible scumteams?

Personally, I haven't ruled out any teams yet. At lunchtime Today we were still expecting that Elmo might claim a role that would confirm him as town. CES decided if that were so then a Nexus-Tammy scumteam didn't make sense because then he believes that CDB-town would not be so wildly wrong as to have a super strong-town-read on scum-Nexus. I reminded him that you had a fairly strong town-read on Titus in the recent Team Mafia game. CES said that was different as you don't have as much experience with Titus as with Nexus.

I'm still pretty unsure who the scum are now, I was hoping massclaim would clear someone, and now I'm going to have to do some pros and cons analysis I think.

Oh yeah, my other (pointless) reaction that I've had to hold in until after massclaim: I'm sorry we incorrectly lynched Shanba yesterday, but hey, at least we didn't lynch Poro instead.

I'm also a little glad that Poro is dead and thus confirmed so that I didn't have to try and work out if his crappy case on us Yesterday was coming from misguided town or actual scum.

Nexus - since you still seem skeptical about us, please can I ask that you tell me why, if you can come up with reasons? Yesterday Poro pointed out that our thought trajectory on AVox on Day 1 was not clear. If anyone had ever asked us about this, I would have been happy to go into more detail, but nobody did so I'm not especially aware of what is or isn't missing from my posts. I feel this is potentially even more of an issue in a hydra, where we talk about the game a lot, which makes it harder for me to remember what I have mentioned in the thread, and what I have simply discussed with CES.

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Post Post #474 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:07 am

Post by Ampersand »

In post 469, Nexus wrote:Why do we think we have a reflexive doctor again? I must've missed something.

Because [Tracker + Mason + Tourist] in a 9 player game seems like not enough town power. Tracker is the only clearly useful role, the other two are a bit ambiguous and situation dependent. CES points out that the Tracker + Doctor newbie setup has a town-winrate of less than 50%.

If there is also a Mafia Reflexive Doctor, that interact with both the Tracker and the Tourist to give the town some additional power, and a mafia scumteam makes the solo Mason a more useful role.
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