Saki Achiga-hen episode of side-A Mafia [OK]

[pieguyn]

votecount 1.38

Voidedmafia (5) - St Constantine the Hermit, Xtoxm, Elbirn, Gin and Sonic, Chandra Nalaar

St Constantine the Hermit (3) - Benjamin Applebaum, singersigner, Voidedmafia
Varsoon (3) - InflatablePie, Profgessor Emotion, Kuro Matsumi
Chandra Nalaar (3) - Nachomamma8, Bins, Varsoon
Cabd (1) - lufan131
Gin and Sonic (1) - ZZZX
singersigner (1) - pidgey

Not voting (3) - Bitmap, Cabd, Jazzmyn

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is July 21, 13:00 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2015-07-21 13:00:00).

Profgessor Emotion, ZZZX, and InflatablePie are V/LA until July 19.

[Elbirn]

I've been prodded. I'll post tomorrow.

Bitmap you suck

Please post in love you

[Bins]

Bins vote basically just looks like paranoia to me. If she wants to give me some other reason, great, but it looked like basically paranoia.

Gut.

[Bitmap]

I've been prodded. I'll post tomorrow.

Bitmap you suck

Please post in love you

Out of all the wagons, St Const is probably best wagon right now but I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm not sober enough to find it
but if it you link it in will read it through and consider your wisdom

Either way honestly I'm scared that we can't build a new wagon from scratch and push it to lynch

Because I feel generous. Plus I was lynched D1 so there's not the entire game to read! (if you want that, read We Didn't Playtest This)

Either way honestly I'm scared that we can't build a new wagon from scratch and push it to lynch

Let's lynch Scum Varsoon then!

Varsoon isn't happening today, Kuro. It's me or Hermit. Or Chandra. (And I obviously don't want it to be me.)

I've read like 10 of Voided's posts on thst gamr and I already realize I'm an asshole

Fuck I'll vote chandra just lemme read voided again tomorrow, without my bias of thinking he's scum, to really cement it

Oh, you reached it. I'll still link it anyways cuz I feel lazy.

I'm glad Nacho's putting in more effort, though.

(it's 12:30, I'll post more later.)

[Kuro Matsumi]

Varsoon isn't happening today, Kuro. It's me or Hermit. Or Chandra. (And I obviously don't want it to be me.)

Maybe!

[Chandra Nalaar]

I hate to break it to you, but I am not actually scum. Sorry!

[Chandra Nalaar]

You probably shouldn't wagon me, by the way. That's not a great idea.

[Nachomamma8]

You probably shouldn't wagon me, by the way. That's not a great idea.

This is a lovely response.
Care to do something better?

[Gin and Sonic]

To be fair, it's been a year and a half since I've pulled scum. I could be rusty!

even though i was apathetic as fuck, i still remember catching you


also voided nightless was still one of my most memorable newbie games, be proud of that... although being a dick to me for a period of time after that game wasn't cool @.@


many walls incoming... will read

[Nachomamma8]

To be fair, it's been a year and a half since I've pulled scum. I could be rusty!

oh yeah I also don't really see this post coming from Voided-town.

[Gin and Sonic]

Xtoxm and Sonic are still scumposting, too.

baby you gotta get hammered to see that!

I wish I had fewer scumreads on this wagon. It is literally elbirn and scumreads. :X

now this is the definition of high

Spoiler: useless post

Threw this snippet to mastin, and I asked her if I was crazy. It was clear to me what he was trying to get out of the bargain and I couldn't/can't understand how someone couldn't see some town motivations in it unless they weren't looking past the surface.

What did you think the reason for doing this was?

I don't know. It's just incomprehensible to me that anyone would say "Hey, you do X and I'll step up my activity" because it almost seems like it's fishing for an excuse to not do so.

Besides, Mastin should know I can be really dense <_<.

So, if you ended up seeing someone who was tunneling another person while not really giving out thoughts on other people, or didn't really seem to have other scum-reads, you're saying you wouldn't mind them staying in that state and you're saying you wouldn't do anything to possibly get them to do other things in the game?

I think this self-imposed restriction he has is somewhat important to him, otherwise he wouldn't keep it and I think he's saying that Cabd taking a step back and looking at other options for scum is important enough for him to drop the restriction.

I wouldn't want them to stay in that state, no. I guess in that light it's more of "I'll step up if you step up". Which still feels icky because that kind of step-up shouldn't be there at all (hah <_<), but it makes more sense.

Important or not, I don't get what it's meant to do.

So you think he's inexperienced scum who doesn't know what he's doing? (Despite having been a player for a while). I also disagree with this sentiment, but he could be scum for other reasons.

To be fair, it's been a year and a half since I've pulled scum. I could be rusty!

In more seriousness, though, Elbirn, do you think I'm quoting everything for the purpose of obfuscation? I feel like I've tried to explain myself when I should and elaborated on my reads either on my own or when asked. I'm not going to say that everything I quote is going to lead somewhere because it's not. If I manage to point out something or ask a question that gets heads to turn a look more closely, I consider my job done. Maybe it'll lead to a full push, maybe it'll lead to it dropping off either because the person in question took too long to answer or because I lose track of my push as the days go by. It just depends.

you are like mastina. you can post a wall with 0 content in it

Spoiler: groot wall

Voided's wagon is absolutely terrible.

Hermit's vote doesn't really have any reasoning for Voided that I can understand.

Xtoxm has given a "maybe, mild gut" read which doesn't impress me much.

He's talking a lot
But he's not saying anything.

He reminds me of my first scum game where I didn't know what to do, so I responded to every. Fucking. Thing. With walls of comments and weak ass questions that didn't actually matter or go anywhere. He's doing the exact same thing. It's like he wants to look like he's helping, but he's not actually helping.

This vote is weak because it shows a complete lack of familiarity with Voided's play, and it's also focusing on something that's a play style and not actually something that's more likely to come from scum than town except in really specific instances. I'd also argue that Voided is saying plenty; sure, there's a lot of stuff in his quote walls that could be cut out, but this really really isn't alignment indicative in any way whatsoever and I can't say that enough.

These votes/unvotes are in succession.
How is voided so out of sync that he changes his vote to nacho, and then forgets that he changed his vote a few posts later and tries to unvote kuro again? To me it says that his vote on Nacho wasn't genuine in the first place.

Thoughts? Am I crazy or is this a thing I've found?

Forgetting where your vote is isn't a scum tell, just a sign of bad memory. His push on me wasn't strong enough for it to be stored in the "intense emotional moment" part of the memory banks, so it's not unreasonable or unlikely for him to forget that he was voting me as town.

I don't know why he unvoted me necessarily, but I don't think that this looks so much like he forgot he was voting me (nor that it's likely that he forgot he was voting me, regardless of alignment).

This is the full case Elbirn has for Voided.

I really don't like how he came out of the woodwork to push the Marquis wagon once The Hermit replaced in.
In my experience, when someone replaces in, usually wagons on that person dissipate--it seemed like an attempt to keep that from happening.
Before that, Voided was voting Nacho, but Nacho's been pretty transparent about their play and I don't really understand Voided's vote there either. Felt like part of a sensationalist kind of wagon that cropped up on Nacho--at the time, the Nacho wagon was at 5 with Xtoxm, Bitmap, Profgessor Emotion, Kuro Matsumi, farside22

Voided voting for play he doesn't understand as opposed to deeper level votes doesn't concern me much. I do agree that the opportunistic playing is a point against him, but I think the rest of his play overshadows that pretty heavily.

VOTE: Voided

This is Gin and Sonic's reasoning for their Voided vote.

My opinion of Voidedmafia is "he makes a lot of posts and I have never been moved to have an opinion about him."

That's not great, but I don't want to lynch it when there are so many players in this game I actively want to lynch.

And this is Chandra Nalaar's reasoning (with a little extra of sheeping Elbirn's case on Voided, which really, really isn't good).

The wagon is utter shit.

groot-man why are you discrediting the voided wagon?? do you have a towncase on him?

I AM GROOT

Nacho, i'm waiting for you to lead the congregation.

Right now you're just a gnarly old tree.

We like red clothing man better plz tia.

2nd

Good vote!
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Xtoxm is going to get very far in this game at all, and Chandra has a tendency to bus buddies just before it looks like they're going down. The vote is also based on meta from waaaaaay back when that no one else is even kind of familiar with, meaning it's not a vote that's likely to attract more votes at all. I also find it kind of dumb to base votes on old meta when someone hasn't been on the site for 4 years, but maybe that's just me?

bad vote, amigo

I'm torn.
Nacho, can we just lynch Voided today and sort Chandra tomorrow?

Voided is town.
Chandra is scum.

Plus, why not vote Chandra over Voided in this scenario when your reasons for voting them are so similar?
Both have been opportunistic, but the main difference is Voided is willing to push players like me despite reputation but Chandra isn't because he knows the vote will be criticized and he knows there's no way in hell I'm letting myself get lynched for lurking.

this is hot baby

I hate to break it to you, but I am not actually scum. Sorry!

i hate to break it to you, but that's not what you say when you're town

To be fair, it's been a year and a half since I've pulled scum. I could be rusty!

oh yeah I also don't really see this post coming from Voided-town.

oh nasty. then shall we continue voting voided then?

[Gin and Sonic]

oh mamma

what will i do without you

[Nachomamma8]

Voided-scum*****

[Nachomamma8]

Please stop voting Voided. Please don't do it.

[Gin and Sonic]

VOTE: Chandra

[Chandra Nalaar]

It would really be ideal if you could just vote better. This game just isn't what I want to spend my time on right now.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I have thought about replacing out, but with so many other replacements, it seemed rude.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Forgetting where your vote is isn't a scum tell, just a sign of bad memory. His push on me wasn't strong enough for it to be stored in the "intense emotional moment" part of the memory banks, so it's not unreasonable or unlikely for him to forget that he was voting me as town.

I don't know why he unvoted me necessarily, but I don't think that this looks so much like he forgot he was voting me (nor that it's likely that he forgot he was voting me, regardless of alignment).

This is the full case Elbirn has for Voided.

The problem is the part where Voided steadfastly denies that he forgot.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Would, not will.

My interpretation of Voided's vote here is that it doesn't really make sense at all coming from scum; after he made this vote, I gave him every reason to continue voting me (I didn't address the lurking suspicion, I didn't produce content) meaning that I was a very easy place for him to park his vote. But he didn't keep his vote there because he recognized that specific point. It seems even more genuine when you bring into focus his mindset at the time; Voided was just looking for a place to vote, votes a lurker for lurking, soon realizes that's a pretty dumb vote to make.

I don't think Voided fakes this sort of town tell as scum because it's pretty subtle and I don't think that Voided (or most players, really) waste their time doing things like this, but they are strong hints of a town mindset.

This point is apparently so subtle that I don't understand it whatsoever.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm torn.
Nacho, can we just lynch Voided today and sort Chandra tomorrow?

Voided is town.
Chandra is scum.

Plus, why not vote Chandra over Voided in this scenario when your reasons for voting them are so similar?
Both have been opportunistic, but the main difference is Voided is willing to push players like me despite reputation but Chandra isn't because he knows the vote will be criticized and he knows there's no way in hell I'm letting myself get lynched for lurking.

Actually, I just don't think you're scum

[Chandra Nalaar]

On Chandra Nalaar and why Chandra Nalaar should die:

because his posts are both eager and genuine. 31 is a good post and I think he'd be more likely to effort harder if he were scum rather than accepting that he will be different from what's expected of him. 90 makes my gut happy.

i do recognize that varsoon is being atypical also, but i'm still allowing for the possibility that it's because he's being different on purpose. he always sounds awkward to me.

My major concern is how Chandra treated two null openings completely differently and that the differences in how he read them make sense for him as scum.

Both openings, if you look at their content and nothing else, are both proposed playstyle changes that are either beneficial or necessary regardless of alignment. Varsoon says he wants to play better so he's understood more and lynched less; this is a null desire. Cabd says he's moving away from his old playstyle which was very very high-effort because he has less time on his hands than before; this is a necessary move.

Cabd, while playing well, is a harder lynch than Varsoon is. Varsoon doesn't dwell in the meta circles Cabd dwells in, Cabd does less crazy shit than Varsoon does, etc. The only only thing that Cabd's opening said that was relevant in any game is that he was excited for the game and had plans of playing well in that particular game; Chandra choosing to townread his opening while "meh"ing Varsoon's felt like an easy townread he was picking up since he expected he would be forced to hold that townread down the road. I think Chandra knows better. The other possibility is bias (Chandra just wants to read Cabd as town because they haven't played together in a while where Cabd was engaged), but it's still a small red flag nonetheless.

Your MAJOR concern is that I treated two openings differently? I'm sorry if you thought they were null, obviously, at the time, I did not. I wasn't analyzing just their desires and changes; I was talking about specific posts and wordings that I liked or did not like.

It's not like I declared Cabd super duper town forever.

Elbirn is a townread.

Nacho is an "I don't care about cluttering the thread, be present" read.

After these most recent pages I like Nacho more, Bitmap managed to make a favorable impression with 3 posts. Nacho's argument for Cabdscum resonated with me, but I'm not pursuing that right now. Voided is going to be a difficult read.

Secondly, I don't really like Chandra's interactions with me in particular. For one, the "oh Nacho should post more" is a throwaway and doesn't actually focus on why I was lurking, which seems strange to me: every other player in the game has had something to say about my intentional lurking that is more than "please post more", and I find the townread on me strange considering I don't think that pair of posts would be something particularly difficult for me to come up with as scum and I think in general, Chandra is more concerned about me when I'm low content than when I'm active and engaged. I think that Chandra as scum wouldn't be very inclined to push me even if I looked like an easy push because he knows it's usually a slog to mislynch me because of my general behavior under pressure.

As far as pushes from the slot go...

My interactions with you barely exist, so I don't know what there is to not like about them. If you want to play differently, you can play differently. That didn't raise my hackles at all. I wanted you to post more regardless of your reason not because of suspicion but because I feel your posts are useful. What townread on you? I have one now, but I don't recall having one at that time. Just because I like someone's point does not mean I am townreading them.

You are right, of course, that I would not be likely to try to mislynch you early if I were scum, but that is really neither here nor there.

Jumpy?

Defensive?

Buzzwords??

VOTE: Bins

Garbage.
Feeding into the possibility of giving the singer-Bins fight momentum. Seems especially disingenuous considering almost every other player in the game regarded the fight as town v town.

You know full well that I don't intentionally feed fires. That's not my style. I was jumping in where I saw something I didn't like in the hopes of getting a better read. What about everyone else thinking it was town v town makes it disingenuous? If anything, you are supposed to like it when I go against the grain.

I don't find your alleged confusion genuine. Obviously, bussing exists, and chances are not all of your reads are going to be right all the time. No one is this cocky.

VOTE: Kuro.

Garbage.
Especially when playing on an alt that occasionally artificially ramps up cockiness.

This absolutely cannot be the first time you've seen me say something like this. I was aware of the irony, but it stems from a double standard. I am doing it on purpose, but everyone else presumably is not.

VOTE: Xtoxm

Good vote!
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Xtoxm is going to get very far in this game at all, and Chandra has a tendency to bus buddies just before it looks like they're going down. The vote is also based on meta from waaaaaay back when that no one else is even kind of familiar with, meaning it's not a vote that's likely to attract more votes at all. I also find it kind of dumb to base votes on old meta when someone hasn't been on the site for 4 years, but maybe that's just me?

This isn't a moment at which it looks like he's going down immediately. Granted, I would definitely be bussing Xtoxm if I were on his scumteam right now, but he is scum without me.

That is just you. When I am ready to rally votes, I'll rally votes, but I want to be certain first, and until then posting my honest thought processes should suffice.

I have a number of scumreads in the wings right now, but Marquis is scum. Sonic is also scum.

VOTE: Marquis

The issues I have with this are that
1) it is based on absolutely nothing, and 2) this is the first wagon that actually looked like it had the potential to be followed through to a lynch.

Chandra was also townreading Marquis earlier, why the change of reads?

It is not based on absolutely nothing. I mentioned how much I disliked Marquis' white knight of Bins, which did not seem in character. I also found his posting quite ATE-y, which mirrors his scum play in Signs and Void. I believe I also found his opinions convenient or useless. I cannot remember why I was townreading Marquis, but presumably, he started being scummy.

I believe that Elbirn has caught Voidedmafia.

<snip>

VOTE: Voidedmafia

This vote is also opportunistic and terrible.

So, in short, interactions with a couple of key players are convenient and advantageous for Chandra-scum. Positions on other likely scum are convenient and perfectly fitting with Chandra-scum's meta. Pushes are either A) blatantly terrible (Kuro push, Bins push), or B) on likely mislynches of the day.

It might not be a great vote, you can have that one. I am regretting it already.

Lynches of the day are lynches of the day for a reason.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I believe in the power of each and every member of this town to figure out how to read that post even though I fucked up the quote tags. You can do it.

[Chandra Nalaar]

You want me to start trying, I'll start fucking trying. I felt that coasting was a better option, but evidently I do not get to do that.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Here's today's Interesting Chandra Idea: How about we lynch Sonic instead?

I went to make a case on him, but it is not actually worth doing, because:
-He has done nothing to advance the game state at any point
--Calling people town and asking people if they are town does not count as doing this
--He had a great opportunity to interact with me in his sequence of posts beginning with 845, but instead proceeds to call me bad, then realize he cannot get away with calling me bad, apologizes, calls me bad or scum while acknowledging I am not bad but doesn't vote me, and goes back to being completely useless
-He is not being his aggressive townself, and instead is spending all his time being needlessly affiliative for reasons he has not bothered to explain
-His read on me is directly proportional to my read on him
-His read on Xtoxm went from questioning in 835 while buddying him to having him as a second strongest townread in the read list with zero explanation

VOTE: sonic

Yes, this vote will look like a desperate attempt to divert the wagon on me by being trendy and subversive, but that is fine. At least I'm voting for scum.

This has been Chandra Tries To Play Mafia

Tune in at an undisclosed time and place, or just murder her! the choice is yours