UK Meet 2015 Invitational (Game Over)

[Tammy]

Please hold I'll be back in a bit.

But cdb is confirmed scum.

Ampersand should unvote if they're town before boo kitty can quick hammer.

It doesn't make any sense for ampersand to be voting me and encouraging nexus to take his time reading and not vote until deadline. That's just manipualtive nullshit designed to make it look like they care and are concerned about the game as well.

If they were so convinced I was scum, so as to vote me in lylo, they wouldn't be encouraging for someone to take their time.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yes they would.

[ChannelDelibird]

That was a fun read! Anyway, goodnight.

[Tammy]

Yes they would.

Says scum already tasting his victory.

[Tammy]

Why do we think we have a reflexive doctor again? I must've missed something.

Nothing definitive, but that's definitely the scum power that I would pick if I were designing a game with a tracker and a lone mason and a tourist as the town's power. It's also very possibly the one that I would pick even without a tourist, but think the tourist makes for a better setup. It makes the mason sorta mean something, it makes the tourist potentially mean something, it gives the tracker a chance to not die. It feels like the right amount of protection in a nine-player game. And I'm pretty sure that it's a role of which Patrick is a fan in general.

I don't think that the above makes it more likely that we'd be able to find scum based on who might be a mafia reflexive doctor but, if I had to bet on the setup, that'd be my punt.

This makes so much more sense now as does the entire play. They designed this together, and knowing Patrick as well as they do, they added something that they would be able to explain away as most likely. This is why they wanted me to go first because there was a possibility, which they even admit, that I could have been a power role and they didn't want to make a misstep because what if I had been a tourist? Too risky. They weren't concerned about nexus going after them because as they said he all but claimed vanilla anyway.

There is a chance that ampersand is the town one here depending on boo kitty, but in that case cdb is just sucking up to a town player he knew how to play his cards with and what to do for them to avoid voting him and voting me instead. Fenchurch has already shown that she's willing to go after whoever shows suspicion of her, so he knows his best bet is to claim that he was going to reread them but then has this great reason why he just doesn't need to.

Either way you shake it cdb is scum.

[Tammy]

Anyway tl:dr cdb is confirmed scum.

Hopefully if ampersand are town they come to their senses and unvote before boo kitty can quick hammer.

IF not, this game is in boo kitty and nexus' hands. IFor that's the case, I'll be around and will help in anyway I can.

[Ampersand]

Ampersand should unvote if they're town before boo kitty can quick hammer.

It doesn't make any sense for ampersand to be voting me and encouraging nexus to take his time reading and not vote until deadline. That's just manipualtive nullshit designed to make it look like they care and are concerned about the game as well.

If they were so convinced I was scum, so as to vote me in lylo, they wouldn't be encouraging for someone to take their time.

Tammy, there are some things you've said that do give me pause and make me want to believe you. But then I find it hard to believe that you'd push shit like this if you were town.

Of course we want to use extra time. Not just for Nexus to re-read, but because we're still trying to parse which of CDB and Bookitty is your scumbuddy. Bookitty has made literally 6 posts in the game. Prior to that we were reading Elmo as more likely town, but the way Bookitty has formed reads and then the way she has (or hasn't) adjusted them in light of new information has made her seem the scummier. I'd very much like to hear more from her though, because I'd rather not be basing so much on so little.

I'm not going to comeback on the rest right now, in case we are in fact wrong and Bookitty just comes in and hammers. If she posts to confirm she isn't doing that, I'll come back to it.

- Fenchurch

[Tammy]

I am town, and we are about to lose this game because of me and you're criticizing how things look to me when you are voting for me?

Uh-uh.

[Nexus]

If you want to wait for Bookitty to post, why the hell have you left Tammy at L-1? Bookitty can literally come in and vote Tammy and then end the game if she [bookitty] is scum.

I don't really see how risking a Bookitty hammer is a good thing?

[ChannelDelibird]

Yes they would.

Says scum already tasting his victory.

No, you're just objectively wrong. Fenchurch is always extremely keen on patience and things being done right. It's suggestions like the otherwise that show that you're trying to throw anything that might sound bad at Ampersand because we're the only scum pair that you could now argue, implausible as it is.

[ChannelDelibird]

If you want to wait for Bookitty to post, why the hell have you left Tammy at L-1? Bookitty can literally come in and vote Tammy and then end the game if she [bookitty] is scum.

I don't really see how risking a Bookitty hammer is a good thing?

Fenchurch has indicated that her decision is on who is Tammy's buddy, not on whether or not her vote is in the right place. So there is no risk if they believe that.

[ChannelDelibird]

I mean, if people are actually thinking of buying into what Tammy is selling here, just reread this:

I'm here! Skimming up a bit. I have no reason to doubt Prozac's claim.

Of course he didn't. That's because he's scum and knew that Prozac was town and not lying.

Besides why would he question it when it semi cleared him from a no action standpoint and gave him a clear from the lynch that most likely would have happened/should have happened day two.

This is the formula for every one of Tammy's recent posts. "I have to argue that CDB is scum" leads to "here is something he did that is completely alignment-neutral, IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SCUM".

If anyone's still worried that it might be me and Tammy, this should be the proof against. Bussing is good because you know that you can find things that your buddy has done that are scum-motivated, but Tammy is dredging up things that have no bias towards either possible motivation and trying to paint me as scum for them.

[ChannelDelibird]

I feel like Bookitty is just trying to get me onside for LyLo Tomorrow.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also feel like I ought to point out that the person who was killed on Night 1 thought I was pretty obvtown and intended to dig deeper into Primate on Day 2.

[Ampersand]

Yes. I'm still of the opinion that Tammy is scum, because of the reasons we've given before and because of some of the junk arguments she's pushing now.

But if be a fool if I thought there was no possibility of being wrong. That doesn't mean the right play is not to vote though; at some point in lylo you have to vote, and there is always a risk attached.

It'd just be nice to have the vote confirmed correct (from our POV) before I put more time into explaining the issues with Tammy's recent posts, but I'll do it tonight anyway if I have to. Although CDB appears to already be doing a good job of it.

- Fenchurch

[Bookitty]

The good news is that I have a stable Internet connection. The bad news is that this connection is at work and I will have limited time (and none this morning). I'm really sorry, guys. They are actually digging up cable in my neighbourhood trying to find the problem, but I don't even have an ETA on when that will be fixed.

Sorry again

[Tammy]

I wish I knew if boo kitty read, but I guess if she had and knew that was a discussion, she'd make a point of saying not hammering?

[Tammy]

I mean, if people are actually thinking of buying into what Tammy is selling here, just reread this:

I'm here! Skimming up a bit. I have no reason to doubt Prozac's claim.

Of course he didn't. That's because he's scum and knew that Prozac was town and not lying.

Besides why would he question it when it semi cleared him from a no action standpoint and gave him a clear from the lynch that most likely would have happened/should have happened day two.

This is the formula for every one of Tammy's recent posts. "I have to argue that CDB is scum" leads to "here is something he did that is completely alignment-neutral, IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SCUM".

If anyone's still worried that it might be me and Tammy, this should be the proof against. Bussing is good because you know that you can find things that your buddy has done that are scum-motivated, but Tammy is dredging up things that have no bias towards either possible motivation and trying to paint me as scum for them.

You are confirmed scum, which means your motivation there was scum and was to further a scum win, which you're probably about to get so yay you, good job.

[Ampersand]

Well, Bookitty hasn't quickhammered Tammy, and although she hasn't explicitly commented on it, I feel like if we had Bookitty-scum and Tammy-town then she would have made it more of a priority to check the gamestate.

So, let's make a start on this.

Thing 1: The hito-kill

Tammy has put her explanation for why hito was killed in 595. I've been bothered by the hito-kill since the start of D2, but after pursuing it down a blind alley (Shanba) I stopped putting so much weight in it. However, knowing now that Tammy/Primate is scum, I'm guessing this is was the reason:

Spoiler: Ampersand's reads on Primate on Day 1

Scum: Shanba, inspiratieloos
Null: AurorusVox, Elmo
Town: ChannelDelibird, Nexus, Primate, Prozac

Primate - Nullish. Although he seems fairly loose and happy so far, so maybe town.

CDB - prob town
Nexus - prob town, seems legitimate and trying to make things happen
Shanba - prob town, 104 seems good
Primate - prob town, 101 seems honest

I think Elmo and Primate are probably town, but neither of those are strong townreads at the best of times.

Spoiler: hito's reads on Primate on Day 1

AV, Nexus, primate are the worst three offenders, I think. Of those, AV-Nexus makes the most sense holistically.

Also Primate's recent behavior w/r/t his Nexus read and him not hammering AV is strange.

I'd want to dig in to Nexus/Primate regardless of AV flip. Well, I guess because it's virtually guaranteed to be two scum, an AV scumflip helps Primate just in the sense that he can't then be Nexus's scumbuddy, and I think a lot of my uneasy feeling on Primate is the Primate <--> Nexus connection

We were, albeit mildly, townreading Primate pretty consistently, whereas hito had expressed several suspicions on him. So it makes sense that he chose to kill hito instead of us.

---

Thing 2: Tammy's craplogic on us

If they were so convinced I was scum, so as to vote me in lylo, they wouldn't be encouraging for someone to take their time.

CDB has already covered this, but I just don't believe town-Tammy would believe this at all, or that she would continue to ignore the subsequent posts where both I and CDB have reiterated why I am happy to wait.

I am town, and we are about to lose this game because of me and you're criticizing how things look to me when you are voting for me?

It wasn't a criticism, it was an analysis, i.e. I was observing that I think you would only make posts like that as scum. Different things.

---

Thing 3: Tammy and CDB

If anyone's still worried that it might be me and Tammy, this should be the proof against. Bussing is good because you know that you can find things that your buddy has done that are scum-motivated, but Tammy is dredging up things that have no bias towards either possible motivation and trying to paint me as scum for them.

You are confirmed scum, which means your motivation there was scum and was to further a scum win, which you're probably about to get so yay you, good job.

I agree with CDB's summary here of what's wrong with Tammy's case. Especially when she has gone from post 567: "I have no clue who scum is besides cdb and that's only thanks to the fact that I haven't been quick hammered" to a sudden barrage of reachy-posts where apparently CDB is obv-scum.

This exchange does make me think CDB is more likely to be town, as well. His observations just seem more genuine, whereas Tammy's seem forced.

- Fenchurch

[Nexus]

Feel a bit awkward. Honestly kinda understand the votes on me and am rather self-conscious at the moment as a result so I don't want to force anything but inspie's entrance was kinda bad, yo.

You're right. I'm scum and I decided to confess. I've never been flustered by a wagon on me as town before. Certainly not at the very meet which thus we celebrate.

Yeah but you also get flustered as scum.

Sure. Doesn't make Nexus right.

Why are you flustered over a small wagon?

Well, it's irrational, but here's the thought process, more or less:

1) So I say something awkward/recognise that people think I said something awkward
2) Aware that if I say something else awkward, maybe it'll snowball and I'll get lynched (as has happened before)
3) Aware that nothing else is happening in this game right now so people are going to be particularly keen to get things going, looks like that's going to be on me
4) Because nothing else is happening in this game right now, there's not a lot about which I can think other than how people are thinking about me

I mean, ultimately I'm reasonably confident that after a bit of pressure people should realise that I'm town, and of course the game has to start somewhere, but right now the game's set up for me to be very self-conscious, so here I am. I guess this is what early votes are for? It's just more helpful to me when they poke at people whose alignments I don't already know.

Really don't like these posts.

[Nexus]

Forgot how much i disliked Ampersand's early posting as well.

[Nexus]

post post post just need to post I am not loose now this is stressful for some reason

Ampersand is being helpful. I retract my earlier read on CDB as now he's acting self-concious in an honest way and that's good I guess. Nexus seems ballsy and happy so cdbs read is one i share a bit, though his is more grounded in realism.

I get the inspo thing, but I don't think he's been overly town, but then not overly scum either. He's pretty honest so I'd lean town if forced to it, but there's not much there.

re: poro the stats thing was obvious guff so eh, there's nothing in that unless I'm missing something. I think he's been mostly town but I don't have much faith in that read because I've put no time into it.

Amper asked for a vote so

vote Shanba

. He's probably scum.

I still feel like an observer bye.

Yeah, that probably isn't very helpful, is it. I'll review later.

I don't know why we didn't lynch Primate after this.

[Nexus]

@Fenchurch - are you always very concerned with deadlines? You mention them more than the average person from what I can tell.

[Nexus]

actually, if AV flips scum, Shanba looks pretty good - my suspicion on Shanba is mostly due to his post making me second-guess the AV lynch in the first place

I'd want to dig in to Nexus/Primate regardless of AV flip. Well, I guess because it's virtually guaranteed to be two scum, an AV scumflip helps Primate just in the sense that he can't then be Nexus's scumbuddy, and I think a lot of my uneasy feeling on Primate is the Primate <--> Nexus connection

Hito's reads were p. bad, but he does have Primate as a scumread here.

AVox had me/prozac/Ampersand as scum, and Primate as Town.

[Ampersand]

Forgot how much i disliked Ampersand's early posting as well.

Which bits and why?

I don't know why we didn't lynch Primate after this.

For his inactivity and generally lack of contributing anything useful? For saying he found the game stressful? I can't speak for why any of you didn't lynch him for those things, but I've said my reasons in 541. Have you actually looked and compared with his posts in those games? He does come across as townier before but that has been true of most people here, for me.

@Fenchurch - are you always very concerned with deadlines? You mention them more than the average person from what I can tell.

I don't know about 'always', but I am when the game feels especially lethargic, with multiple players receiving multiple prods, and multiple replacements, and each game Day going right up the deadline. Yes.

I would like for lynches to be decided at least a couple of Days before deadline, ideally. I hate the deadline rush, and in my experience, it often results in a bad or at very least an uninformed lynch.

Hito's reads were p. bad, but he does have Primate as a scumread here.

AVox had me/prozac/Ampersand as scum, and Primate as Town.

True, but I would say that lynches are generally going to be less informative for finding scum than the night-kills, since scum have a sole control over the kill, and not the lynch.

- Fenchurch