Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

[fferyllt]

I was debating between him, layla, notscience and pie, for the most part. I honestly don't remember why I didn't go for pie. I think I went through like 4-5 instances of opening pie's iso, flitting through it, and just feeling meh. It was probably mostly because it seemed like he was getting townreads from others. ns I didn't want to shoot because ffery said she'd be able to read ns better as time went on i think. It eventually came down to layla and gnomeo, and I picked gnomeo because I was hoping layla was going to start posting more since her early posting felt town. I also think I thought gnomeo was more widely suspected. I didn't really trust my own reads so I wanted to shoot someone who was widely suspected; I didn't really see any good choices, but I wanted to kill someone.

Who do you think would have been a better shot? Was I just reading the overall trends of who was being suspected poorly? I was mostly shooting based on what I perceived to be the town's general reads, not my own.

Also: I'm 2-shot (I didn't say this initially because maybe a week ago I had a random idea that I could pretend to be 1-shot if there was a late massclaim, and then save an extra shot for drawing after 3p lylo or something like that, which is a horrible reason yes, but alas). If you do think I'm a serial killer I'm not going to have any freedom to do as I want.

Why did you decide to shoot at all then?

[Empire]

DAY 2, VOTECOUNT 14

implosion (4)

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pieguyn, Nachomamma8, Boonskiies, RedCoyote

Nachomamma8 (2)

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Wickedestjr, implosion

Soft-spoken (1)

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Vinkah

RedCoyote (1)

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Soft-spoken

Not Voting (3)

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Tammy, notscience, fferyllt

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch! Deadline is on August 13th at 3AM EST or in (expired on 2015-08-13 03:03:09).

Mod Notes - Wickedestjr is V/LA from the 8th to the 12th.

[implosion]

have you ever played vig before and is this statement consistent with that?

Maybe, I'll need to remember, but this isn't a general statement about how i would play that role. It's because I didn't have a good degree of confidence in my reads. If I had a solid scumread at the end of d1 I would probably have shot them (unless I was going against the entire town or something like that).

Why did you decide to shoot at all then?

Some combination of knowing I'll need to shoot eventually to confirm my role, feeling like we had zero information to work with and wanting the extra information of an extra flip, and maybe other reasons? I knew I could not-shoot but I never particularly considered it seriously.

[pieguyn]

I agree that she's playing an uncharacteristically weak game here if town. I think this is probably the place where I'd most like to put my vote at this very moment, but won't just to freak out Wicked.

I'm going to be blunt: No.

You yourself said (1181) it was hard to get strong reads in this game. You also said you were giving ffery a pass for what looked like "slow playing" *because* of how hard it was to get strong reads in this game. So, why is it such a problem that ... surprise ... I don't have any strong scum reads? Just because I'm not death tunneling someone or making any particularly strong push anywhere doesn't mean I'm not forming reads or that I don't have reads. It means that I don't see a reason to walk around acting like I've solved the game when ... I haven't. (This idea people have of my play, btw, is part of why I wanted to play a scum game like S&S2 for a while before actually being able to accomplish it; the assessment people seem to have that I hard push reads as town and aren't capable of it as scum is entirely wrong and used to interfere with my town play because people would, and still do to some extent, assume I was scum if I wasn't deathtunneling anyone.)

This is ignoring the fact that this isn't strictly true, either. I've laid out my town reads in the game thread already, and I feel pretty sure all of them are town. And I think that if you sit down and actually look what I've posted instead of attempting to read my tone, you'd see I'm pretty clearly exploring possibilities for scum outside of said town reads, even if until now I didn't have particularly strong conviction anyone was scum.

There's also the fact that, outside of you apparently thinking I'm scum, the people I *am* POE'ing as scum are the same as yours. Why is it that I'm supposedly playing such an "uncharacteristically weak" game here if I'm in the same fucking position you are? I don't understand at all how you can have the exact same reads I have and then claim that I'm not playing well for ... reasons.

The point I brought up to notsci is also perfectly valid one. I would sure as hell be able to bullshit a push on someone if I was actually scum here. But you seem to be handwave dismissing that in order to push that me not feeling strongly about any of my scum reads = me being scum. Do you think I *couldn't* push anyone if I was scum here?

In short, you applying this double standard to me and only me is fucking awful and makes me want to question my town read on you here. I would like if you could actually, you know, engage me on this because your reasoning here is *seriously* misguided at best.

[pieguyn]

Things like this are townier than not because they defy meta expectations in a way that both feels genuine and also feels unlikely to be coming from notscience as scum. Leaving an avenue for pie to push him and not get scum read for it makes pie pushing him easier, and he's shown that the whole 1v1 for a misread is both believable and fakeable coming from him as scum.

I can see this if I squint (and this is part of why I had a town read on him back on D1), but I think if it really came down to it he'd be capable of faking that. This is even more so the case when he's now retracted it (that is it could just as easily be him attempting to fake conviction there).

[pieguyn]

it's kind of moot now, but I think the S-S wagon is/was pretty shit - the only reasoning I remember actually reading for it was what notsci was posting about his attitude. I think that's more a playstyle issue than anything scummy, and outside of that, I haven't minded S-S' posts.

I think Tammy asked me what I thought about her point re: Cheet. I think it's a fair point bc, from what I remember, Tammy's play D1 looked similar to how she played for most of the duration of WTP in that she didn't directly engage with anyone. Cheet should, theoretically, have seen her play there and noticed that the way she was playing here wasn't unreasonable for her.

[Soft-spoken]

just got up and caught up. red shifting his vote so effortlessly after i entirely dismissed his post and called him out for dodging my actual questions seems off... i would expect the natural progression to be (as town) to bicker with me a bit about how he actually addressed my concerns... or to go back and realize that he hadnt and take the time to address them. completely leaving that conversation hanging and going straight to voting someone else feels... icky.

[Soft-spoken]

as far as implo goes. im not sure...

there are def a ton of things that dont look quite right there... but it just occured to me that, even with claiming a 2-shot... that gives him until day 4 to likely be confirmed as serial killer with multideath nights.

[Soft-spoken]

why not just claim town BP here? a vig claim as SK this early doesnt entirely make sense

[Soft-spoken]

owait. fact check: is SK always compulsive like im assuming?

[Nachomamma8]

Not always, no.

[implosion]

I don't think I've ever seen a compulsive sk in MS, although I don't remember a whole lot of SK games at all.

If you're interested I actually have one lonely game as third-party from forever ago if you want it for meta.

[implosion]

Although I wasn't an SK. It was a theme game.

[Nachomamma8]

For some reason I feel like you're referring to the scourge of the earth that is aqua teen hunger force?

[implosion]

Oh god oh god no do not remind me of that

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=18513

[Nachomamma8]

It's potentially notable that Nacho was the third spot on both my wagon and the eventual Anen lynch wagon.

Agreed.

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

you said I wasn't reading you, which is a cryptic way of implying that you had soft-claimed prior to that post.

And what makes you say that?

[Nachomamma8]

The part that looks bad to me about implosion is the part where pie pointed out that he was supposedly shooting a townread and his response was that he was trying to shoot a consensus scumread.

Don't have real time to think about this now, but I'm not sure I'm willing to lynch someone who is probably not scum, especially when we can just tell him not to shoot unless we drop down to evens.

[Nachomamma8]

Actually I lied.
Let's speed up the process.

Vote: Boonskies

[fferyllt]

ok.

VOTE: Boonskiies

[fferyllt]

The part that looks bad to me about implosion is the part where pie pointed out that he was supposedly shooting a townread and his response was that he was trying to shoot a consensus scumread.

Don't have real time to think about this now, but I'm not sure I'm willing to lynch someone who is probably not scum, especially when we can just tell him not to shoot unless we drop down to evens.

As long as we don't have anything resemblilng Smite.

[Soft-spoken]

RE: pie... nothing stands out to me in comparison to last game. forest fire was actually a similar feel so far as how the momentum felt... with the exception of the beginning being a bickerfest. and with the exception of that prolonged bickering i find pies play here to be identical here.

when RC and notsci are interacting it feels like tvs, but that might just be me confbiasing


p edit. ill have a look at the game

P edit 2. i was thinking the same thing nacho. if hes SK we have him by the balls already. if hes not then we save ourselves a PR lynch.

p edit 3. why the rush on boon now?

[Soft-spoken]

anything.

This attitude seems decently town to me

Boon's entrance was what pinged for me too. I didn't like that he walked in here with only the one read on Wicked and didn't lay out any other reads, and it didn't feel like he was actually trying to give a good explanation for said Wicked read.

While its a frustrating entrance, I don't think it's particularly scummy. His entrance into Joss Whedon mafia was pretty similar to this one.

Vote: implosion

I have faith Boon will do things eventually and that his alignment will become hilariously obvious when that happens.

there are other posts where you have pointed to things you dont like about boon... but it seems like you were all for letting that resolve itself later?

[fferyllt]

Actually I lied.

Let's speed up the process.

[Boonskiies]

Aww man...