512: Bojack Horseman Season 2 (Over)

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

omgus

VOTE: polar vortex

It's pretty obviously not an omgus vote? We were suspecting sthar so we started questioning him. He then turns himself to us. He's omgusing really. Subtly, but he is

[sthar8]

@wing, fferyguyn- Talk to me about PV. I don't see anything in their iso that looks like legitimate scumhunting. They're focusing on the theoryfight with furbringer over providing content, and their jump onto me was both telegraphed and really weak.

I'm not sure if I'm just frustrated with the double standard and revisionism, but I looked through their ISO and I can't recall why I was townreading them.

Can someone who is not ETL tell my why they want to lynch firebrother?

ETL- did you catch my early game crumbs?

I think rn I want PV, but I might compromise onto sonic for all the buddying.

[sthar8]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

omgus

VOTE: polar vortex

It's pretty obviously not an omgus vote? We were suspecting sthar so we started questioning him. He then turns himself to us. He's omgusing really. Subtly, but he is

These contortions look painful.

[sthar8]

IDK maybe I'm wrong.

PV- show my why you thought I was suspicious using only things that came up before I called you scummy.

[sthar8]

*show me

[Polar Vortex]

I said in one post I think something about you as a negative. But then, most of it is pretty unprovable since we were discussing a sonic-sthar partnership between the heads. Snowstorm said it's best to keep quiet about you before sonic would presumably flip scum. But he went to question you(which was the attack I mentioned really). After that we think you felt the suspicion in that questioning and went for us. That's my view at least

[AngryPidgeon]

Vote Count 1.13

Firebringer(2) - EspeciallyTheLies, Kaboose
Metal Sonic(1) - Wingback
Polar Vortex(1) - Metal Sonic
sthar8(1) - Polar Vortex

Not Voting(3): Sekai no Ki, sthar8, Firebringer

-----------

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

(expired on 2015-08-21 12:00:00)

Hollywoo stars and celebrities! What do they know? Do they know things? Lets find out!

-Mr Peanutbutter

[Polar Vortex]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

omgus

VOTE: polar vortex

Nice helmet.

[Polar Vortex]

@wing, fferyguyn- Talk to me about PV. I don't see anything in their iso that looks like legitimate scumhunting. They're focusing on the theoryfight with furbringer over providing content, and

their jump onto me was both telegraphed and really weak.

I'm not sure if I'm just frustrated with the double standard and revisionism, but I looked through their ISO and I can't recall why I was townreading them.

Was that why you started to suddenly suspect us? Did that also give you the convenient amnesia that made you forget why you were town reading us? Or maybe you don't remember because you had no reason to town read us in the first place.

BTW, you still haven't answered what your current stance on MS/ETL and Ffery is. Did you forget you suspected them? Or were they random baseless reads too?

[Polar Vortex]

IDK maybe I'm wrong.

PV- show my why you thought I was suspicious using only things that came up before I called you scummy.

Now, my problem with you is that you haven't been as present, and when you are you chose to spend time on a slot you described as low hanging fruit. When you said that about Fire you also said you believed there to be scum in MS/ETL and that Ffery was pinging you. But instead of pursuing those leads you chose to focus on the low hanging fruit you think is disruptive. That's not productive, and by focusing on Firebringer it's like you're hanging the fruit even lower.

We were worried about you, because of PoE, neither of us was town reading you. ^That was what triggered us to push you.

[AngryPidgeon]

Whoops, fixed error in last VC

[sthar8]

BTW, you still haven't answered what your current stance on MS/ETL and Ffery is. Did you forget you suspected them? Or were they random baseless reads too?

reading is tech

[sthar8]

gimme more on this.

It applies to you too. I don't have any solid scumreads. Therefore, I should look at players who are capable of looking town as scum. All three of you are VERY capable. Also there's probably a bit of omgus in there which is iffy because while i feel like i should be obvious town, I understand why pie would scumread me comparing with TM and just from general paranoia.

There's actually a really big easy push on me that's

not

happening for some reason, and I'm trying to figure out what that means.

There's actually a really big easy push on me that's

not

happening for some reason, and I'm trying to figure out what that means.

What did you mean by this? You got read as town early and there was never a point where you came under serious pressure. It could mean that scum are townreading you but it would depend on who the scum are. Is there a reason you were expecting to be an easy target?

I jumped on defending ETL from wisdom's attempted cheating. It's possible that the scumteam is oblivious enough to have not seen it, it is possible that ETL is scum and her team decided not to push something that implicated her, and it is possible that the scumteam didn't think they'd have enough traction from that to lynch me.

If I were ETL's scumbuddy, I would want the sthar-slot lynched ASAP, since the broken logic there could be used to pseudoclear her. If ETL were town and I were scum, I'd want sthar-slot lynched for defending her. I might push that they're likely scumbuddies or that sthar-slot is wk-ing, but more likely I'd push her first on the scumbuddy logic and then him on the wk-ing logic.

It's a high value, low risk play for scum, and I'm trying to figure out why they didn't take it.

I think rn I want PV, but I might compromise onto sonic for all the buddying.

thats thoughts on ETL, animehydra, and MS. all fresh, all in-thread for any random passerby to read.

[sthar8]

But then, most of it is pretty unprovable since we were discussing a sonic-sthar partnership between the heads. Snowstorm said it's best to keep quiet about you before sonic would presumably flip scum. But he went to question you(which was the attack I mentioned really). After that we think you felt the suspicion in that questioning and went for us.

So I'm clearly OMGUS-ing you because I obviously knew that in your private communications you were discussing being suspicious of me before I called you scummy and chose to preempt the in-thread debut of this information, which I clearly learned via telepathy, by finding your push on me suspect?

[Polar Vortex]

Those posts tell me nothing. I still don't see the read progression. I want clear, direct answers.

How did you go from "one of MS/ETL is scum" to "[No idea what your ETL read is]" and "Could compromise on MS"?

And I still don't know what's your stance on Ffery. Is she still pinging you? I don't even know what it was that was pinging.

[sthar8]

I actually did know that you were gonna start pushing me, but I didn't care. When you actually did, it was for bad and clearly not alignment indicative reasons, things that if you're town you KNOW town is thinking about doing because YOUR SLOT WAS DOING THEM. The double standard and clearly manufactured reasoning pinged me, so I went back and read your ISO. In the meantime, you conjured a hydra-dissonance defense which is pretty objectively scummy and attempted to strawman off your original argument by claiming a bullshit standard of content which is garbage because a) I actually am meeting it and b) you don't say why not meeting it is scummy.

Thing is, there's no way you could reasonably assume that I expected you to push me, so the whole OMGUS angle is either craplogic or scummy revisionism.

You'll note I'm not voting for you yet. I need to talk to the other players first.

[Polar Vortex]

None of that creative writing specifically addresses the points I made about you, nor does it answer my questions.

[sthar8]

That's nice and dismissive and completely untrue.

Go ahead and list your 'points.'

I'll rephrase my reads on those three into smaller words in a minute, since apparently reading is hard.

[Polar Vortex]

You had leads. You said you thought one of MS/ETL was scum and that Ffery was pinging you. You went on with your life, came back and instead of pursuing those leads, you started profiling the slot you had described as "low-hanging fruit". You didn't even comment on those other players. Low hanging fruit denotes a player you think is likely to be town and to be picked on by scum, and you decide to pick on him instead of looking at the possible scum who were picking on him or at any of your other leads.

To summarize, you had reason and tools to scum-hunt and you didn't. You drew attention to a player you expect scum to push. I think that shows a scum mind set.

[sthar8]

man thats a long paragraph to read. could you do like a chart or something?

[sthar8]

also, having read it now, it's completely daft.

[Polar Vortex]

My attempts to reason with you are being met with dismissal and derision. I must have gotten your profile wrong.

[sthar8]

nah i'm just busy at work. there's more coming later.

[Firebringer]

This is a cute fight.

Can you two please take a look at ETL tell me why I should town read her?

Kthanks

[sekai no ki]

I'm profiling him. I did the same thing to you once, but I was more subtle about it.

can you link me to the game where you did this and what your alignment was in it?

The "squicky opportunism part was pretty accurate. I had a similar problem with Kaboose which I mentioned earlier in Post 339 and Post 344.

i agree that it was definitely the best part of the case. however, i think kaboose is a type of player who doesn't *really* care much about pushing any one target and has a tendency to throw votes around whereever without much conviction or solid reasoning behind any of them. while it's infuriating, i've seen a lot of players recently who play like this. i could see sthar pushing this regardless of what his alignment is, but the point here is more that i don't think this specific point in his case holds water - the part of the case i had issue with was mostly the third point (see below)

The third point about Wisdom was something that I mentioned earlier as well in my two posts that I linked. I think players tend to remember the alignments of others in previous games remarkably well. For instance, if I picked a random game of yours and asked you who the scumteam were, my guess is that you would recall accurately. Can you tell me who was the scumteam in Left 4 Dead without looking? It is something I noticed a while ago - it is very hard to forget who was scum. Granted, it doesn't apply to every player but if Kaboose was paying enough attention to Wisdom in those to notice behavioral tells, also forgetting that Wisdom was scum was unlikely. Anyways, I don't suspect Kaboose now. I just think he's a wierd anomaly. I'm more hoping to get a read on your motives and possibly Sthar8's. I'm not sure I'd have said Kaboose was backpedaling. I thought he was making stuff up by referring to Wisdom's meta and got caught on it.

i don't think kaboose has any motivation to lie about that regardless of what his alignment actually is. it is likely something that would be accurate over all of his games, and thus entirely playstyle. scum usually don't like about objective stuff like that unless there's a *very* good reason for it, since in most cases you can just as easily fact-check it and realize they're lying about it (you could argue this isn't the case for this, specifically, but i think it is similar in that given enough games it would become obvious it's just part of his playstyle).

i think that even if he *is* scum here, his thought process there went something along the lines of "wisdom is playing differently from before - i think this is something i would be picking up on as town" and there it was, rather than him lying about not remembering what people's alignment were in his finished games. which means it's entirely null, since it could just as easily be coming from town-him as it would be coming from scum-him: he's either town, or scum faking it.

i think this is the kind of thing someone would be able to realize if they sat down and looked at it for a while, which is why i think sthar pushing it as scum motivated is a shallow analysis of the situation

(and purely because i'm a showoff: mastin2, rubicon, actiondan, majiffy, sven. ~)

Sthar8's case brought up similar points to mine. Why did you only have an issue with him and not me (was it just the meta-reference of Sthar pushing cases like this in the past as scum)?

i don't remember your case on kaboose being that similar to his and i only remember agreeing with the point about kaboose not asking any follow-up questions being scum-motivated, which wasn't a point sthar brought up in his case