Micro 514: Dealing With Dragons Mafia (Game Over)

[GrayFoxxxx]

Nope, with "recap and no scumhunting" you are essentially accusing me of IIOA. None of these posts were IIOA, so try again

What? Now you are arguing with your self lololol.

[Wisdom]

ok so grey is obvscum

im done here

[GrayFoxxxx]

ok so grey is obvscum

im done here

I think you said this too in your scum game

[Wisdom]

ill give you one last chance.

There are people who have over 20 games with me and still can't meta me. You can't meta me off a single game, especially given that game was multiball and I was genuinely scumhunting for other factions. If anything, if my play this game reminds you of that game, you should be taking it as a sign I am town.

But even without any meta, it's quite evident I am town. All these posts you listed, in all of them I am scumhunting, trying to make people see their mistakes and either fix them or respond in ways that could be telling. You are just disliking the way I am doing it.

[Wisdom]

meanwhile I don't like PA so far

[GrayFoxxxx]

ill give you one last chance.

There are people who have over 20 games with me and still can't meta me. You can't meta me off a single game, especially given that game was multiball and I was genuinely scumhunting for other factions. If anything, if my play this game reminds you of that game, you should be taking it as a sign I am town.

But even without any meta, it's quite evident I am town. All these posts you listed, in all of them I am scumhunting, trying to make people see their mistakes and either fix them or respond in ways that could be telling. You are just disliking the way I am doing it.

Nah, looks like how you played as scum last game.

Don't need your "last chance". What ever that meant.

[GrayFoxxxx]

meanwhile I don't like PA so far

Nice a read, could you elaborate? Maybe it will help me see you as town.

[goodmorning]

Cimorene realised her mistake almost as soon as they reached their destination, for the King of Sathem-by-the-Mountains had a son. He was a golden-haired, blue-eyed, and exceedingly handsome prince, whose duties seemed to consist entirely of dancing attendance on Cimorene.

Votecount 1.3

The Betting Pool [L-3] - Firebringer, kyndy101

Vedith [L-4] - Elbirn
Wisdom [L-4] - GrayFoxxxx
Elbirn [L-4] - shaddowez
kyndy101 [L-4] - Vedith
Firebringer [L-4] - Axxle
GrayFoxxxx [L-4] - Wisdom
shaddowez [L-4] - The Betting Pool

Not Voting [0] -

With 9 alive, it takes

5

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2015-08-22 22:00:00).

[Wisdom]

i dont care whether you see me as town

[Wisdom]

VOTE: the betting pool

[GrayFoxxxx]

i dont care whether you see me as town

Surprise surprise

[Elbirn]

So confidence is a null tell, but the way it is shown can be scummy? I.e. it's my actions? If yes, what have I done and why is it scummy?

Yeah, that's probably a good way to put it.

In posts 11 and 20 you're pushing for people to sheep you, out of just an RVS vote. There's one posts worth of information to go on, which is barely enough to even make a viable argument out of, let alone enough to convince other people to vote on without some heavy influencing. The attitude that comes across in 27 is similar, though not quite as pushy. It seems like an attempt to establish an air of leadership and have people follow you without needing proof. Additionally, since it was right out of RVS, if kyndy does get lynched and flip town you have the fallback of "I didn't have a strong argument, you all decided to follow me blindly".

Elbirn you look different than last game. You had reasonable reads there, and you sticked to them despite what others said (for example you insisted I am town). I like neither your shallow tunnel on kyndy nor the way you stopped pushing her just because I didn't agree with you.

I'm just gonna respond to you both at once. Here's what happened, I saw something I believed to be scummy and I decided to go for that persons throat. Because I don't like rvs and want to be out of it as soon as possible. I'd say I accomplished that.

My argument was weak? No shit, it's page 3. She was still the scummiest person as of that point and I told you all why I thought that. If her lynch went through, I'd have stood by it.

What I don't get is how I can be criticized for being "confident" and apparently having a Crappy read, AND for being reasonable enough to change that read. If my read is bad and my confidence is misplaced then clearly I should rethink it, but what I'm getting here is that either way I'm fucked.

What really grinds my gears is that you, wisdom, were on the kyndy wagon with me. If you thought my push was such crap then why did you vote her with me and say nothing of my push at the time? Then *you* explain to me why she's town, and when I listen to you I'm told that I'm wrong to? Lolwut? Also that criticism for my reads strength based on our other game is all kinds of bad. Of course my reads after 100+ pages of a large game were stronger than my reads in 3-4 pages of a micro. And again, I'm criticized by you for having a strong read and not a strong read at the same time and that's nonsense

But none of that matters because kyndy is town apparently

I don't understand this comment. Is this town apparently from your opinion? I've never been the fan of early suggestions of people being 'town'. I know that's how most people are on here, I just think it's an excuse for someone to work from that if they are scum.

This means that yes, I think kyndy is town now. I do not understand what/how you're suggesting that giving out townreads is scummy, elaborate plez

[Elbirn]

ok so grey is obvscum

im done here

VOTE: the betting pool

I don't get how your back and forth with gray concludes with you switching your vote off of him, particularly considering post 151.

[kyndy101]

Ok so wow you guys got a lot of pages done..

Anywho about the argument(s) going on, I feel like both Wisdom and Gray have problems.
Gray seems to have blinders on to anything in Wisdom's posting that could be helpful or reads. He is only seeing recap, and he only is going off of one game. He is accusing Wisdom of not adding anything substantial to the game, and yet he hasn't either (although I suppose you could consider his tunnel on Wisdom as scumhunting, but I don't like the reasons) I also don't like how Grey entered from lurking, thinking that he had more substantial posts than Wisdom (that's how it felt anyway).

Wisdom seems uber-defensive; more defensive than need be, in my mind. He feels like he's squirming too, and usually that's only a thing that scum does. (I have seen a lot of people squirm as town though so) I also don't like all of wisdom's empty threats (ie "die", "last chance") and then not even voting Grey. I do think that he could be thinking that grey is just town that is confused, but I doubt that due to the previous comments.

I'm not sure if either of you are scum, but these are the things that don't feel right with me about either of your arguments. Of course, this could be an elaborate distancing.

The other argument I saw going on was between Wisdom and Vedith (don't know why I'm announcing that, it was already pretty obvious)
I don't like how Vedith pretty much started the argument with what felt like an attack without really listening to what wisdom was saying in response. Then he keeps the argument up, which to me looked like he was trying to get Wisdom to say something in particular without getting that pointed out.
Wisdom feels town in this encounter because he didn't really respond in a bad way.

So, reads:
Vedith: null-scum; that attack /argument felt uncalled for and unecessarily long. If Gray hadn't shown up I think it could have don for pages.
Wisdom: Null; the first encounter felt like you were on the receiving end and you didn't act weird that I saw, however in the second argument with Gray you kinda got really defensive and put out some empty threats, then voted the Betting Pool. I do like how you jumped on Gray's case about the lurk post.
Gray: Either really bad town or scum. First jumps into the game with a post saying "lurk". Then you tunnel on Wisdom for "recap"s of which I saw none in the posts you provided as evidence. Then you don't listen to anything Wisdom has to say and keep asserting that he is acting the same way he did in your only game together (he was scum). This is where I get the bad town vibe, because you could just not know that one game is in most cases not enough to develop a meta read on someone (especially if it was a greater idea game).

That all said, I am pretty comfortable doing this:
VOTE: Gray

[kyndy101]

ok so grey is obvscum

im done here

VOTE: the betting pool

I don't get how your back and forth with gray concludes with you switching your vote off of him, particularly considering post 151.

Thank you for this, I completely agree with you. I was wondering what everyone else thought of that

[Wisdom]

If you thought my push was such crap then why did you vote her with me and say nothing of my push at the time?

I voted her for a single thing she did that I didn't like. You pushed her for things that weren't scummy and kept tunneling even after she claimed.

[Wisdom]

Of course my reads after 100+ pages of a large game were stronger than my reads in 3-4 pages of a micro.

That's irrelevant. The point is that other people didn't affect your reads there. While here, I say she is town, you immediately accept it and unvote.

[Wisdom]

ok so grey is obvscum

im done here

VOTE: the betting pool

I don't get how your back and forth with gray concludes with you switching your vote off of him, particularly considering post 151.

i thought some more and decided gray is town

[Wisdom]

I also don't like all of wisdom's empty threats (ie "die", "last chance") and then not even voting Grey.

..what? I was voting Gray.

[Wisdom]

im back to not liking kyndy but i dont fucking know because newb

this fucking game

[Elbirn]

If you thought my push was such crap then why did you vote her with me and say nothing of my push at the time?

I voted her for a single thing she did that I didn't like. You pushed her for things that weren't scummy and kept tunneling even after she claimed.

Of course my reads after 100+ pages of a large game were stronger than my reads in 3-4 pages of a micro.

That's irrelevant. The point is that other people didn't affect your reads there. While here, I say she is town, you immediately accept it and unvote.

So did I I keep tunneling her, or did I stop? It can't be both.

Here's what happened, she claimed, I said "I don't know", you and I talked a bit about it and then I agreed with you and moved on. Any mention of her after that point was me getting people to talk and take stances, or explaining my own point of view.

My reads weren't effected by others as much in our other game *because* my reads were stronger and more concrete, which was a result of having more to work with and mostly having made my mind up. I actually quite value others input, I like working with people, and am prone to sheep people that seem town to me.

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

You continued, then stopped after I insisted she's town

[Firebringer]

This fight between wisdom and verdith felt TvM.
Leaning scum on wisdom
Leaning town on verdith.

I don't know I don't trust my read on wisdom ATM.

[Wisdom]

no idea how you can get me-scum from a discussion where verdith was making no sense

[Elbirn]

You continued, then stopped after I insisted she's town

Yeah, this was all on page 2, I just reread. I made a total of 5 posts after her claim before agreeing with you . You call that tunneling?

I think your reasons for scumreading me are superficial.

VOTE: Wisdom