Mini 1709: Radjarok: Game over!

[Hopkirk]

Hmm interesting that I'm supposedly inactive. Pretty sure that before I went to bed, I had more posts than gob

Edit: yeah he knows how many posts I have.

It's not odd to take a mod's votecount as right.

Trivium is also voting himself.

Also flying back to Boston today, so I'll post again once I get back. Unless I have time during a layover

You start of by saying you can't be inactive because you have more posts, then there's no opinions- only spectating- in the rest of the post.

Oh also, be for I go, I should mention that gob says that VeeGee is scum in his reads post. I don't know if his vote is there though, which could be an issue.

Also after I asked for a serious vote, VeeGee picks texcat, retracts it and then leaves it at that. Stop doing the bare minimum scum and at least look like you're scumhunting.

I'm good with texcat and VeeGee votes.

Quoting this partially for the next point, and partially because "Stop doing the bare minimum scum and at least look like you're scumhunting." also sounds like mentoring (i don't think this is the right word but i can't be bothered checking the wiki). Generally wide statement like this are aimed at partners.

Below are all my posts concerning VeeGee (in spoiler)

Spoiler: VeeGee

Hallos.
VOTE: stoz
For remembering that game






Also OMGUS.

The answer to your question: Not sure, really. I'm usually sorta active.

....but, they could also lie about not being active, so they CAN lurk unnoticed.

Oh jeez, now that we're out of RVS (as far as I'm aware), I should unvote stoz in case a huuuge wagon suddenly appears on him.


UNVOTE: Stoz

okay. you should probably also do something about this though. (lol maybe your third post was about yourself?)

Oh also, be for I go, I should mention that gob says that VeeGee is scum in his reads post. I don't know if his vote is there though, which could be an issue.

Also after I asked for a serious vote, VeeGee picks texcat, retracts it and then leaves it at that. Stop doing the bare minimum scum and at least look like you're scumhunting.

I'm good with texcat and VeeGee votes.

Are you saying that I should either, A: Keep voting texcat, even though I had no reason to, or B: Vote someone random?


I'm not doing either.

No, I'm saying that a vote is the only thing townies have during the day to win. You're not using it, which is a waste of town's populationalready minimal resources. Get some reads and.put a vote down.

Also saying something feels off and then not voting/acting on it is a scummy. Town needs to actively scumhunt, not just sit around wasting time.

Stoz is the right about VeeGee

Now, the summary on my thoughts regarding VeeGee has to do with the fact that he posted a random vote, says he's usually active, then says that since we're out of RVS he should unvote. There's a huge problem with this. What is it, you ask? He isn't doing anything. The entire town needs to work together towards lynching scum. How is unvoting a random vote and then

NOT DOING ANYTHING WITH YOUR VOTE AFTERWARD

helping us. That's my main issue.

Making matters worse is the fact that after I point out that he's not scumhunting ("you should probably do something about this"), he votes the guy i'm voting (totally fine, think he might be scum), and then unvotes (also fine, since he can have his own opinion). But once again, the same issue pops up. What does he do after he unvotes? Nothing. Sure he talks and fluffs, but where the fuck is his vote. Like i said in 124 "a vote is the only thing townies have during the day to win. You're not using it, which is a waste of town's populationalready minimal resources. Get some reads and.put a vote down" (wow that autocorrected population wtf). What's even worse is that he seems to have a scumread (or at least hints that he finds scummy things) but does not vote to back it up.

Now hush up Accountant and vote him already.

SamX and Havingfitz are guilty of the same thing. Kinda scummy, at best bad-for-town. Trivium is still voting himself

You seem to have a big scumread on veegee. You mention sam and having as an afterthought as "guilty of the same thing". Why are you only pressuring veegee instead of the other two too?

[Hopkirk]

Playerlist:

1. VeeGee - I think forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=7168496#p7168496 says enough for VeeGee, he is obviously trying to appear as a town, asking what he should do, not wanting to step on any toes.
2. Haschel Cedricson - Probably my top town, he seems to be going strong and following on his own reads, unlike VeeGee who is merely putting pressure on an overall quiet, inactive player.
[note] im not saying putting pressure on quiet players is bad, but as i stated before i think vijay is town (for now) however, i still beg for vijay to be active.
3. Klingoncelt - 3 posts
4. Hopkirk - Town at this point. Sure he is acting really stupid on some things, like jumping on me for a RV page 2 but that shows he has good intentions to me.
5. stoz - Another person looking fine, his last post definitely implies he is trying to get the ball rolling. Town or not. Nothing he has said has been particular to either side.
6. SamX - 2 posts
7. gob - Me ;0
8. vijay2vasandani - Though inactive he is definitely giving me the "i really wish i werent here right now" vibe. To me it seems like he is just forcing himself to play yet another game of mafia.
9. texcat - 4 posts
10. Trivium - Yes, probably my first scum read, he is so obviously trying to glide under the radar at this time, are you going to post something?
11. Accountant - Literally bare-bones. They are attempting to act like they're in the game and contributing but lets be real here, she isnt.
12. havingfitz - 1 post, apparently gone on weekends.
13. Dessew - He answered my questions. So i guess thats cool.

-----

These are incredibly early leads, but i know they are going to point us in the direction of scum.

Lack of vote while having scumreads is weird. Maybe not voting as doesn't really belive in reads?

1.) Is this a veegee scumread (if you say he's faking what he's doing)?
2.) Agree with this.
4.) This is changing my words.
11.) Same as 1, this sounds like a scumread but he doesn't say it. Leaving wiggle room for when opinion start flying maybe.

10.) This is the main thing i wanted to note. Gob's only stated scumread is for "flying under the radar". Over half of gob's reads are "only has x posts so can't tell". Same reason for scumread as null reads.
Generally his read list really just sounds like narration rather than actually comment/opinions. His later posts are exclusivley defending the reads instead of expanding (despite the last line equalling planned expansion).
So...
UNVOTE: Trivium
VOTE: Gob

[Hopkirk]

I want to see more from fitz and dessew. Dessew’s last two posts have nothing.

Non game related musings/things i found funny but didn't want to include in serious posts:
Why are there so many vibrating pokemon in this game? Seeing Veegee post after Gob made me physically laugh.
143-5 were also pretty funny. "I had the scum caught" “but you quickhammered town” “yes, but I knew who was scum”.
Veegee and Vijay sound really similar (as both can be pronounced vj) out loud. This got me a bit confused while writing posts.

[gob]

Narration or not my reads are a contribution. They

were

my insight on the game at the time. If you dont understand this then i really worry for your metal state.

[Hopkirk]

Narration or not my reads are a contribution. They

were

my insight on the game at the time. If you dont understand this then i really worry for your metal state.

So you're only going to respond to one of the things i said (and not a direct response) and give ad hominem?

[SamX]

Vijay, why do you think texcat is a possible vote? I still don't like the vibes he's giving off, he seems to be deflecting more than anything after calling for "moar votes" twice.

Huh? That wasn't me calling for moar votes.

"He" refers to Vijay.

SamX is waffling, there's definitely enough content to slap at least a vote down somewhere. A vote is a townie's best weapon during the day and he's choosing not to use it.

I'd like to hear some solid content from Sam especially given his low activity earlier. What makes me even more suspicious is the fact that he waffled AFTER receiving pressure for being quiet.

*She*

SamX, if you can't find any scum right now, is there anyone that stands out as likely to not be scum? You haven't done anything to convince me my vote is misplaced.

I think Accountant is towntowntown. She's into the discussions and nothing seems "off" about her.

Even though stoz is voting me , I think he is town as well. He's aware of who he puts his vote on because it's towns only weapon, and I agree.

Null read on Haschel. I'm not convinced he's town or scum.

*****More to come later tonight after work******

[gob]

Narration or not my reads are a contribution. They

were

my insight on the game at the time. If you dont understand this then i really worry for your metal state.

So you're only going to respond to one of the things i said (and not a direct response) and give ad hominem?

Sorry i just saw low insults about a newbie game that was terrible to even be in. if you want to actually make good conversation then maybe i'll take you semi-seriously.

[Hopkirk]

Narration or not my reads are a contribution. They

were

my insight on the game at the time. If you dont understand this then i really worry for your metal state.

So you're only going to respond to one of the things i said (and not a direct response) and give ad hominem?

Sorry i just saw low insults about a newbie game that was terrible to even be in. if you want to actually make good conversation then maybe i'll take you semi-seriously.

I said that sounded funny, sorry if it insulted you, but that was completely unrelated to my read (i only mentioned that game in a section i specificly said was not game related). You're avoiding what i'm asking.

[VeeGee]

VOTE: Gob


Been wanting to, no idea why I didn't earlier.

[Trivium]

Sorry school is a mess this time of year. Anyhow, I'm not going to be able to play anymore, so if I could get a replacement that would be great.

[Dessew]

Sorry school is a mess this time of year. Anyhow, I'm not going to be able to play anymore, so if I could get a replacement that would be great.

@Radja: Trivium wants to ask for a replacement, but his text-bolding bone has recently broken.

[Dessew]

VOTE: Gob


Been wanting to, no idea why I didn't earlier.

Why Gob? Why not vijay?

I'm gonna go ahead & risk Hopkirk catching a cold:
UNVOTE: Hopkirk
VOTE: stoz

I'll put together a proper case after my sleepytime.

[Radja]

Trivium has requested to be replaced. Looking for a replacement now.

[SamX]

Yay for lunch breaks and Starbucks wifi...

VOTE: VeeGee I ISO'd on vijay and he makes good points about how he isn't using his vote. I have yet to learn good strategies for this game so thank you vijay and Haschel for putting the spotlight on me. I agree with gob on post #71 (How does one link that?). He's trying to please everyone and not raise any red flags.

As for VeeGee's most recent post about his vote on gob, why? What're your reads on him?

@Haschel: What's the specific reason??? I'm dying to know why you put your vote on me.

[havingfitz]

Note: this stinks of active lurking.

I have 2 posts (this one makes 3) and that's "active lurking?" You're being generous. I would think that's hardly being active. I guess I am being a bit lurky but it's not intentional. I don't tend to post for the sake of posting and nothing has jumped out to me yet. I have another game that I am trying to catch up in as well but I'm not avoiding....just having trouble getting in gear. I will.

[gob]

Narration or not my reads are a contribution. They

were

my insight on the game at the time. If you dont understand this then i really worry for your metal state.

So you're only going to respond to one of the things i said (and not a direct response) and give ad hominem?

Sorry i just saw low insults about a newbie game that was terrible to even be in. if you want to actually make good conversation then maybe i'll take you semi-seriously.

I said that sounded funny, sorry if it insulted you, but that was completely unrelated to my read (i only mentioned that game in a section i specificly said was not game related). You're avoiding what i'm asking.

Im sorry, am i missing something here, ive replied to almost every serious accusation you've thrown at me. Say it again or link the post. Im failing to see it, maybe im just really stupid....

VOTE: Gob


Been wanting to, no idea why I didn't earlier.

[stoz]

I'm glad to see SamX in the game and putting forward some town reads on people.

UNVOTE: SamX

As I've said before, I won't vote gob based on that reads list, as I did the same thing here day 1 when I was a VT and it got me lynched.

I do agree that a lot of what VeeGee is doing seems to be activity for the sake of activity, then being defensive in his last few posts. I was pretty convinced of this when I made my last post but I didn't want to take the pressure of SamX or give her an easy out by indicating I would change votes soon, and this catch-up vote from VeeGee seals the deal.

VOTE: VeeGee

[Accountant]

Texcat:
I townread gob as he seemed to be transparent and fairly open with his thoughts about how the game progresses(even if he's being arrogant and condescending). That in my book is a towntell.

Right now I want more out of Dessew and fitz. I would also be interested to hear from Trivium's replacement when he gets here.

I currently have scumreads on VeeGee and Vijay. Oddity: Vijay and VeeGee are fighting. This could be a staged bus, but it could also be a sign that they're of opposing factions.

Hopkirk and Tex are probably my biggest town reads right now.

VeeGee, why did you vote gob?

[Haschel Cedricson]

VOTE: Gob


Been wanting to, no idea why I didn't earlier.

VeeGee, why did you vote gob?

As for VeeGee's most recent post about his vote on gob, why? What're your reads on him?

This needs to be answered immediately. Like, in VeeGee's very next post.

@Haschel: What's the specific reason??? I'm dying to know why you put your vote on me.

In addition to completely ignoring the Haschelwagon and the events leading up to it, you ALSO ignored Trivium's RQS question, so I figured you were a good place to start getting information.

Anyhoo, there's a lot going on in this game, but I do have a few things I want to bring up. Let's start with the vijaywagon. I don't get it. At all. VeeGee said that he didn't like his "tone", and gob concurred and accused vijay of "half-assing" his posts. These are both ridiculous. When I pushed gob on this point, he said "I never said others posts were grade-A either, but i find the need to mention that Vijays in particular stood out to me as half-assed." This is a complete non-answer to my question of what specifics made them half-assed. So,

gob, I'll ask you again: Which specific posts by vijay do you feel were half-assed, and why do they strike you that way?

Then there is Hopkirk's two attacks suggesting that vijay is coaching his partner, specifically for the lines

Anything in particular you want me to do?

anything really. maybe put down the most serious vote you can?

I can do that.


VOTE: Texcat


Feels as if he's making things up to give a reason to vote.

and

Also after I asked for a serious vote, VeeGee picks texcat, retracts it and then leaves it at that. Stop doing the bare minimum scum and at least look like you're scumhunting.

I think to call either of these statements "coaching" is an enormous stretch. If anything, I felt gob's "i do not think he is scum at this time (and i doubt VeeGee thinks that either" seemed much more like possible coaching than anything vijay has said.

Moving on.

I noticed people have Accountant as a strong townread, which I find a little disconcerting. In addition to another crappy case on vijay (He's aggressive! He wanted people to vote for Haschel and then turned around and voted somebody else! Never mind Haschel's actions between those two points. He's starting wagons!), she states that Klingoncelt is "rubbing [her] the wrong way" yet lists SamX and vijay as better vote options. Now, the vijay part makes sense; her case may not be very good, but she did make one and voting for vijay is internally consistent. But SamX? Why? And no reason is given. Later she says that vijay "seems to be deflecting more than anything" and didn't like "vibes" that he was giving off. Accountant, what was vijay deflecting?

Gob made a pretty sparse reads list, and here is his read on VeeGee:

I think

Anything in particular you want me to do?

says enough for VeeGee, he is obviously trying to appear as a town, asking what he should do, not wanting to step on any toes.

That's not a read; that's a complete dodge that makes it look like he said something about VeeGee while not actually saying anything. So once again, let's be unambiguous here: gob, do you believe VeeGee is scum or not? What specific reasons make you feel that way?

Finally, I want to mention this quote by VeeGee:

Are you saying that I should either, A: Keep voting texcat, even though I had no reason to, or B: Vote someone random?


I'm not doing either.

This is a horrible false dichotomy and you know it.

Alright, that's a big enough wall for now. VeeGee, gob, Accountant, please answer my questions in your next post.

[Accountant]

I felt that Vijay was trying to deflect attention of himself by trying to shift the spotlight to another player. This seemed scummy to me; thus, I called it out.

[Haschel Cedricson]

One of my favorite exchanges I ever read on this site occurred shortly after I joined this site, and it's stuck with me ever since:
Player 1 I feel like my only options here are to A) either prove I'm a townie or B) convince you to lynch somebody else instead.
Player 2: The only way for you to do "A" is by dying, so if I were you I'd get started on "B".

Do you disagree with the arguments that vijay was making?

[Radja]

St Constantine the Hermit replaces Trivium! Thanks!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Anytime m8

[SamX]

@Haschel: What's the specific reason??? I'm dying to know why you put your vote on me.

In addition to completely ignoring the Haschelwagon and the events leading up to it, you ALSO ignored Trivium's RQS question, so I figured you were a good place to start getting information.
[/quote]

What RQS question? o-o I didn't ignore the Haschelwagon, to me, it was just bickering back and forth about "Can we know why?", "He knows why." and RVS.

[SamX]

Noob fail... EBWOP

Meant to include Haschel's reasoning but that didn't work as planned.