Mini 1697 - a Re-balanced Game of Mafia - GAME OVER

[Ankamius]

You do realize that if I was anything but VT, I'd already have claimed doctor by now, right?

Not if you think you have a shot of the lynch not going through.

At the time, I was L-1 with someone off the wagon fully willing to hammer.

It's safe to assume that a hammer would be very likely after a replacement is found and relatively caught up.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Netherspite

I think I need to reset. #1284 from Thesp is hands down the scummiest single post in the entire game; that combined with the wagon on me suddenly losing a significant amount of its teeth is making me paranoid that scum have predominantly been riding the waves instead of trying to make them.

[pistachi0n]

I am town. Where do we go from there?

You read and tell us what you think.

[davesaz]

UNVOTE: Netherspite

I think I need to reset. #1284 from Thesp is hands down the scummiest single post in the entire game;

What about it?

[All Alone]

Page 24 has me thinking Nether's misunderstanding of Ankamius was genuine. I'm not certain that makes him town but I'd rather lynch pistachi0n or Thesp.

VOTE: pistachi0n

[All Alone]

For St Constantine as well as a reminder for everyone else, here's my cases:

Yesterday's flurry started a day before that, and your entire contribution for that entire last

week

was incredibly paltry, served the purpose of maintaining the doldrums of a status quo while the two primary wagons were on townies, and then you got defensive about it saying you were actually being productive. You continue to avoid meaningful discussion of any player other than myself while there's plenty going on. This is textbook scum play. I'm having a hard time imagining a reality where you're town.

Thesp can't even keep his own rhetoric straight:

the doldrums of a status quo

there's plenty going on

How the heck can someone genuinely believe there was plenty going on yesterday, but also there was a doldrums?

Those are literally exact opposites.

That's not an authentic belief, it's the mindset of someone who's playing mental gymnastics to make a player they know is town look as bad as possible.

Thesp has also been playing this whole game for his own survival.

Day 1, eventi voted Thesp, and Thesp pushed the eventi wagon to a lynch. Day 2, Persivul voted Thesp, and Thesp pushed the Persivul wagon to a lynch. And now D3 he's hard pushing me, and soft pushing davesaz - the other two unconfirmed players on his wagon yesterday. It's

incredibly

unlikely for a townie to push lynches on every single player who attacks him the way Thesp has.

pistachi0n is probably scum as well. The way she called Thesp town for RQSing, and then insisted he was town even after I pointed out it wasn't a towntell, seemed more like she was trying to get towncred for Thesp than a legitimate read.

Pistachio town game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=62219

Pistachio made RVS vote then changed it 4 times D1.

Pistachio scum game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=62222

Pistachio made RVS vote, never changed it.

This game: made RVS vote, changed it once to eventi.

So, her D1 voting pattern was much closer to her scum game than her town game.

This is a good point as well. I looked at a bunch of her town games and

she's pretty consistently vote-hoppy on D1 when she's town

, and I don't see a convincing reason for her to have played differently in this game.

I'm fine with either of those lynches.

While all of this looks pretty convincing I don't get why you choose

pistachi0n

over

Thesp

if you seem to be having more arguments against

Thesp

? Or did I get it wrong?

The meta evidence against pistachi0n is actually pretty big.

Newbie 1592, she was town, and voted three times on day 1 (240 posts)
Newbie 1603, she was town, and voted seven times on day 1 (411 posts)
Micro 489, she was town, and voted five times on day 1 (366 posts)
Open 600, she was town, and voted four times on day 1 (313 posts)
Open 601, she was town, and voted five times on day 1 (635 posts)
Micro 487, she was town, and voted two times on day 1 (220 posts)
Open 602, she was town, and voted four times on day 1 (503 posts)

Micro 485, she was scum, and voted one time on day 1 (447 posts)

(I'm not counting Open 599 in the statistics, since that game's D1 was 29 posts)

Basically, pistachi0n tends to vote-hop roughly once every hundred posts D1 as town, while as scum, she's much more shy about vote-hopping. And in this game, D1 was 625 posts, and she voted

twice

. That's a pretty significant departure from her town meta.

As for my voting patterns, I've been trying to get a better intuition about this game and be more solid in my reads. I think I played very poorly in my newbie game when I changed my vote 7 times on day 1 and I wouldn't like to repeat that.

Then how do you explain the numerous games All Alone cited in which you did just that?

The changes have been getting lower over time.

Also, in my scum game, there was one calendar day in particular with a huge flurry of activity. I couldn't be on that day because real life reasons. And then when I logged on the lynch had already happened.

As for my voting patterns, I've been trying to get a better intuition about this game and be more solid in my reads. I think I played very poorly in my newbie game when I changed my vote 7 times on day 1 and I wouldn't like to repeat that.

You didn't cast a nonrandom vote until page 14, how is that "more solid" in your reads?

I wanted to wait until I was sure about someone before I placed a vote. I was obviously wrong in my assessment of Eventi.

I wanted to wait until I was sure about someone before I placed a vote.

I'm not really townreading Ank right now, it's just that there are others I think are scummier. But sure, why not.

VOTE: Ankamius

How are these quotes consistent?

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Netherspite

I think I need to reset. #1284 from Thesp is hands down the scummiest single post in the entire game;

What about it?

1. He's been around on the site long enough that I'd expect him to have an idea of what scum would want to do in this situation. Him asking for a claim is really hollow.

2. His All Alone suspicion in that post is bogus. I don't understand why he'd condemn All Alone for taking so long to take a side in the debate when the latter ended up taking my side in the end. It makes very little sense for a scumpartner to wait until it's nearly inevitable that I get lynched to come to my defense. He was trying to discredit all the lifelines I had to make sure I get lynched.

[Netherspite]

UNVOTE: Ankamius
I don't like my vote here anymore.

[Thesp]

---

I think Dave is the best bet for now. If I get time and clear my head I'll look some things back over, but right now I'm still clouded in my thoughts.

I could totally go with that. I still don't like Ankamius, but davesaz is just

terribad

.

I am town. Where do we go from there?

I'd love to hear your thoughts, and fairly pronto.

2. His All Alone suspicion in that post is bogus. I don't understand why he'd condemn All Alone for taking so long to take a side in the debate when the latter ended up taking my side in the end. It makes very little sense for a scumpartner to wait until it's nearly inevitable that I get lynched to come to my defense. He was trying to discredit all the lifelines I had to make sure I get lynched.

I'm unclear - are you suggesting that as scum I wouldn't simply lynch you when I had the chance? Also, do you think All Alone was avoiding taking a stance between you and Netherspite?

[All Alone]

LOL at All Alone finally taking a position on Ankamius v. Netherspite only after enough people have said they're willing to lynch Ankamius. It's just so bad.

I took a position on Ankamius vs Netherspite on

my very first post sitewide

after it started. Are you seriously gonna tell me it didn't occur to you that I wasn't online this weekend? You've been here since 2004, and you've never noticed anyone not post for a weekend? Get outta here with that garbage.

On this point, you're full of crap.

Your post on

Friday

:

I wanted to wait until I was sure about someone before I placed a vote.

I'm not really townreading Ank right now, it's just that there are others I think are scummier. But sure, why not.

VOTE: Ankamius

How are these quotes consistent?

This totally ignores the Ankamius and Netherspite back and forth. In the 24 posts

immediately

preceding your Friday post, Ankamius and Netherspite have 13 of them, and nearly all of them are attacking each other. The posts that

aren't

from Ankamius and Netherspite are all from the mod, or are nearly all making comments about Ankamius v. Netherspite (and heck, I'd just commented 3 posts before yours how I was willing to be the 4th on Ankamius's wagon). I don't think you're so oblivious as to miss this, so my conclusion is that you deliberately sidestepped the hullabaloo going on around it so as to not have to take a position on them.

Look, I totally understand not posting on the weekends. I rarely do. But I won't pretend that nothing was happening when you

were

posting, and especially at the time when Ankamius v. Netherspite was heating up.

Everyone else

, please read the thread from #1211 on to All Alone's post on Friday, and see if it looks to you like there's some issue he's dodging. You can do so with this handy dandy link right here.

I didn't see anything relevant about Nether's participation in that argument until 1268 where I thought Nether was purposely misrepresenting Ank, nor did I have any read at all on Ankamius until he maintained a self-righteous attitude when he was accused of "scumslipping", which I thought was a town tell. Both of those stemmed specifically from the dual scumslip accusation fight, which started after 1235 so I couldn't have mentioned them then.

And

Thesp is misrepresenting his own play here:

"The posts that

aren't

from Ankamius and Netherspite are all from the mod, or are nearly all making comments about Ankamius v. Netherspite (and heck, I'd just commented 3 posts before yours how I was willing to be the 4th on Ankamius's wagon)."

He brings up his own post 1232 as an example of a comment on Ankamius vs Netherspite.

Only that post doesn't mention Netherspite at all.

He just says he'll vote for Ank with no context, and is now trying to pass it off as being a comment on Netherspite. I doubt a townie would stretch the truth like that.

[Ankamius]

---

I think Dave is the best bet for now. If I get time and clear my head I'll look some things back over, but right now I'm still clouded in my thoughts.

I could totally go with that. I still don't like Ankamius, but davesaz is just

terribad

.

I am town. Where do we go from there?

I'd love to hear your thoughts, and fairly pronto.

2. His All Alone suspicion in that post is bogus. I don't understand why he'd condemn All Alone for taking so long to take a side in the debate when the latter ended up taking my side in the end. It makes very little sense for a scumpartner to wait until it's nearly inevitable that I get lynched to come to my defense. He was trying to discredit all the lifelines I had to make sure I get lynched.

I'm unclear - are you suggesting that as scum I wouldn't simply lynch you when I had the chance? Also, do you think All Alone was avoiding taking a stance between you and Netherspite?

No, I don't think All Alone was avoiding taking a stance. I think he was just AFK for a couple days and

couldn't

give a stance.

And yes, you wouldn't lynch me while you had the chance because that would be unnecessary. With the catfight going on at the time, bringing undue attention to yourself as scum is a very bad idea.

[Thesp]

---

I think Dave is the best bet for now. If I get time and clear my head I'll look some things back over, but right now I'm still clouded in my thoughts.

I could totally go with that. I still don't like Ankamius, but davesaz is just

terribad

.

I am town. Where do we go from there?

I'd love to hear your thoughts, and fairly pronto.

2. His All Alone suspicion in that post is bogus. I don't understand why he'd condemn All Alone for taking so long to take a side in the debate when the latter ended up taking my side in the end. It makes very little sense for a scumpartner to wait until it's nearly inevitable that I get lynched to come to my defense. He was trying to discredit all the lifelines I had to make sure I get lynched.

I'm unclear - are you suggesting that as scum I wouldn't simply lynch you when I had the chance? Also, do you think All Alone was avoiding taking a stance between you and Netherspite?

No, I don't think All Alone was avoiding taking a stance. I think he was just AFK for a couple days and

couldn't

give a stance.

And yes, you wouldn't lynch me while you had the chance because that would be unnecessary. With the catfight going on at the time, bringing undue attention to yourself as scum is a very bad idea.

You think All Alone simply read past what was being said on Thursday and Friday when he posted on Friday, or wasn't interested in what was being said there? I'm explicitly talking about his Friday post, not being gone over the weekend.

Also, what do you think of davesaz's 4th vote on you here?

[davesaz]

The brevity you see in my posts is due to work. Speaking of which, yay I had time to write two sentences, boo I have to leave

right now

.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't care if Davesaz is scum.

Netherspite being alive is unacceptable and I'm not changing votes as long as he is.

Look at how he instantly jumps off of Ank in 1332 once public sentiment turned against it. He doesn't have his own reads, he's just following derptown onto bad wagons. Lynch it.

Like, look at his reads in 1315 and 1321. Everything he's saying is about weird associative tells that aren't explained and are clearly just thrown out in a hat to justify his opportunistic vote switches.

Alch, don't criticize my play when you have done fuck all for town and can't scumhunt worth a damn.

[pistachi0n]

Like, look at his reads in 1315 and 1321. Everything he's saying is about weird associative tells that aren't explained and are clearly just thrown out in a hat to justify his opportunistic vote switches.

Really? It seems like that's how almost everyone is scumhunting this game. I'm not saying it's a good way to scumhunt, but why are you singling out Nether alone for it? You yourself had some reads based off of weird associative tells early in the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

My "weird associatve tells" were based off of explicit reasoning.

Very interesting how you're essentially chainsawing me while the best defense you can must for Nether is that he -may- not be the only one who is making up reads.

[Netherspite]

Look at how he instantly jumps off of Ank in 1332 once public sentiment turned against it. He doesn't have his own reads, he's just following derptown onto bad wagons. Lynch it.

Like, look at his reads in 1315 and 1321. Everything he's saying is about weird associative tells that aren't explained and are clearly just thrown out in a hat to justify his opportunistic vote switches.

I jumped off

Ankamius

because I'm not sure in him being scum anymore.
His latest posts look genuine +

Alchemist21

convinced me.

#1315 and #1321 should be read in conjunction with

Alchemist21

posts. It was my discussion with him and I was discussing his assumptions and associative tells analysis.

You seem to be not really reading the game...

[RadiantCowbells]

I seem to be the only person who actually is, considering that you're still with us.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, and people should note that none of the interplay between him and Alchemist explain the random pairings that come out of left field.

[pistachi0n]

My "weird associatve tells" were based off of explicit reasoning.

Very interesting how you're essentially chainsawing me while the best defense you can must for Nether is that he -may- not be the only one who is making up reads.

I'm not trying to defend Nether, I'm trying to point out your hypocrisy.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're "trying" to point out my hypcrisy?

No one ever says they're "trying" to point out hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is forceful, visceral, you don't try to do it.

Town!Pistachi0n, were she thinking I a hypocrite, would be a lot more forceful in that last post.

That's why she and Nether are scum together.

[pistachi0n]

You think the use of the word "trying" means I'm scum? That's just how I talk!

[Alchemist21]

@RC, I was just saying that, at the time, I believed you were Town with an incorrect read. I wasn't trying to criticize your play, and I'm sorry if I offended you.

[pistachi0n]

Also RC, when I said "trying," what I meant is "this is what I am doing but it seems like people aren't understanding." So if your current argument is seriously based off of word choice, you need to, I don't know, maybe get a better argument?

[Netherspite]

That's why she and Nether are scum together.

Just lol.
You seem to be not making sense literally 90% of the game.
If it is your scum tactic it works fine.