512: Bojack Horseman Season 2 (Over)

[sthar8]

My claim is 'negative town utility.' More information than that is not protown unless we massclaim and try to break night actions.

Double investigative should imply heavily that there is a town negative to balance it.

[sthar8]

Honestly you can't quick hammer with only one more vote. If Sekia is scum and you aren't, that only leaves one extra scum vote.

Unless you are saying we are both scum.

I don't know how you not being hammered proves you aren't scum. If you were at 3 votes for long time and said that 2 out of 3 were scum, I could maybe see that. I don't right now, everyone is hesitant to lynch you.

You know who honestly is more hesitant to lynch their allies? Scum.

They see enough people wanting to go with No Lynch hell they would jump on it as a conveniance. I said No Lynch at beginning. Most of you were against it, but now when pressure is on sthar8 almost all of you change your tune?

WAY TO CONVENIENT.
If anything I am convinced that you and Wingback or TSO are scum.

I'm saying you can't both be scum, you idiot.

[Polar Vortex]

And no. That's a lie. Lynch this.

[sthar8]

Full claim now. I don't care about you reiterating points. We get that you're some kind of negativd utility that apparently didn't bother claiming first thing, but softclaimed cop so you'd appear town when you reveal it.

want in one hand, shit in the other. see which fills up first.

[Firebringer]

@Sthar8 I maybe a Idiot, but at least I am not scum like you!

Solid burn fire. Thanks fire. Good work on that.

[sthar8]

I'm sorry, do you know what an ad hominem is?

Yes. At no point did you attack the points raised, but just degenerated into "obviously these people are so stupid".

NO POINTS HAVE BEEN RAISED. I SAID IT WAS STUPID OF YOU TO IGNORE MY QUESTION WITH A CUTESY SHIT RESPONSE, SINCE YOU ANSWERING CANNOT HELP SCUM AT ALL.

[sthar8]

also why the fuck am i required to tell you who I think are scum, but PV can just ignore that question?

[Polar Vortex]

Because we don't care who is the othet scum? We'll just see in lylo after you are lynched and flip scum. Does it matter who do we think now? No. I think it isn't either sekai or firebringer so that leaves TSO amd wingback, my better head still has a strong read on wingbackIIRC. If we're alivd tomorrow, we lynch the other ond

(Interesting point is that I don't think that profiling would be done on a partner by sthar)

[sthar8]

that is horrifically anti-town. and the difference between that response and mine should be telling.

[Wingback]

@ Polar, who's scum if Sthar8 is town?

[Polar Vortex]

@ Polar, who's scum if Sthar8 is town?

We lose the game if that's the case so does it matter? I'm really confident it's sthar. If he was just a townie playinh horribly, maybe something like wingback+ tso. But again, why should I care?


And sthar, the obvious dofference is that you're getting lynched and we're not? So obviously we'd react differently. I'd find if quite weird if you just said : "doesn't matter, sthar's still scum" to have the same reaction as me, don't ya think?

[Firebringer]

If it was Wingback and TSO they wouldve hammered and this game would already be over.

It could be Sekai and someone else, but I heavily doubt it.

[sekai no ki]

I don't think it can be that combo because they would have intentionally not hammered.

If Sthar8 is town, then firebringer has to be scum, which is why sthar8 being town makes no sense whatsoever to us.

[Polar Vortex]

Ok, not that combo then. Even better. But doing this kind of hypotheticals is completly useless for thr game. Nice imagination exercises, but that's it sincd sthar is scum

Why ask this question Wingback?

[Wingback]

We lose the game if that's the case so does it matter?

If we lynch him, we lose. I'm trying to get you to see it from alternate viewpoints.

You and Sekai and Firebringer are all gung ho about Sthar8 being scum and it just doesn't feel as simple. I don't get why no one besides TSO is even considering that Sekai could be scum and are giving them essentially a free pass.

Firebringer is happy to hang Sthar8 purely for voting Sekai and you aren't considering the possibility of them being scum. So, how about explaining that read?

I mean, part of me has just given up because I don't see how we win if Sekai is scum and it would rely on finding and lynching their partner first and probably nailing them in 3P LYLO.

[Wingback]

(If we lynch Sthar8 and he's town, we lose).

[sekai no ki]

I wanted to wait for pieguy to look at the final writeup before I posted it, but I feel like town's wheels are spinning here, and this will at least give you something to chew on and kick around. If this doesn't adequately represent her thoughts, she can add them tonight.

the strongest point for Sthar8 being scum is the way he forms (and doesn't pursue) his reads. This is exemplified by his read on us.

he had us as scum from very early day 1, based on pieguy's reaction to metal sonic's early game, backed off slightly because we agreed with him about Firebringer being low-hanging fruit, but never made the slightest effort to refine the read until he asked ETL for her opinion of us. She ISO'd us and said we were probtown. he flat out ignored this (he said he was at work at the time she posted it. And then...nothing - no questions to her, no questions to us. The read has been static. his other reads have followed a similar pattern.

his case on kaboose in post 500 was incredibly shallow, lazy and buzzword-filled.

In 763 he posts a reads list. It's interesting that he soft-defends Wingback here.

Looking at 955 and 957, where polar vortex put out the crux of their scumreaad on Sthar8, it comes off reasonable and logical. This is where Sthar8 threw out the irrelevancy of hydra dissonance to discredit them, rather than deal with their actual suspicions.

In 964 Sthar8 says he's reread PV's ISO and is considering a vote there....and never gets back to this.

As an aside, as I read through this part of the thread again, I felt pretty bad that our focus through all of this was mostly on sorting MS. In reread, we found that PV was on this stuff in the moment, while we didn't really focus on it until we were finally coming around to MS being town.

In 976 the parallel with PV to his trajectory on us continues. he asks us to talk to him about PV, claiming that he sees no legitimate scumhunting in their ISO. I'm going to leave that absurdity to sink in...they've provided a fuckton of content throughout the game, and certainly plenty of content prior to post 976. PV's posts on page 40 basically sum up our thoughts at that point in the thread as we reread the game and talked about it. We both found ourselves nodding along, and I felt like we'd let PV down by not being more in tune and backing them up, instead of where our heads were at during that point of the game.

Other stuff of note:

Pie feels like Sthar8 tried to pre-emptively discredit him with the comments that he expected Pie to be paranoid and misread him after the team mafia game.

After Sthar8 ignored ETL's reasons for thinking we're town, he never did engage her or try to work out why she was scumreading him.

And, he never justified his reasoning for scumreading MS. his initial willingness to vote MS was as a compromise lynch. Somehow from there he went to waiting for Pie's town-MS case. And he didn't engage that case, he voted MS, as though it were an implicit "your towncase is shit". his main justification since the vote/lynch was that claiming bulletproof was a classic scum tactic.

he fake-crumbed cop. he claimed to be negative utility on day 1 and not the worst mislynch if it came to that. MS claimed Tracker (after some bullshit, but still). Instead of taking stock and considering whether another lynch (like even his own) might be better for town in the circumstance, he put MS at L-1. Given the lack of reasoning for scumreading MS prior to this, it looks particularly bad to me, but I think overall it's still a weak point. Some players, no matter what their role and the situation consider a sacrifice lynch to be bad play.

Day 2, he's done no real scumhunting. he's claimed we're scum and left it at that.

I have a long pile of Day 1 PBPA that is summarized by this post. I'll be glad to post that in spoilers if anyone wants to look through it.

[Firebringer]

I pointed at the fact earlier today we were in MYLO, no one listens, when pressure is on S8thar though, now its all "WE CANT LYNCH HIM GUYS WE WILL LOSE!"

Give me a frickin break.

You can't have both, you are definitely the most likely teammate for S8thar, Wingback. After we lynch S8thar, you are next.

[Polar Vortex]

(If we lynch Sthar8 and he's town, we lose).

Yes, but I don't see any scenario where we don't lynch Sthar today or tomorrow after a no-lynch.

[Wingback]

Why aren't you voting if you are so certain we have to lynch Sthar?

[sekai no ki]

Why aren't you voting if you are so certain we have to lynch Sthar?

Who would you lynch today?

[sekai no ki]

We lose the game if that's the case so does it matter?

If we lynch him, we lose. I'm trying to get you to see it from alternate viewpoints.

You and Sekai and Firebringer are all gung ho about Sthar8 being scum and it just doesn't feel as simple. I don't get why no one besides TSO is even considering that Sekai could be scum and are giving them essentially a free pass.

Firebringer is happy to hang Sthar8 purely for voting Sekai and you aren't considering the possibility of them being scum. So, how about explaining that read?

I mean, part of me has just given up because I don't see how we win if Sekai is scum and it would rely on finding and lynching their partner first and probably nailing them in 3P LYLO.

Looking for our nonexistant partner will lose this game.

[Polar Vortex]

Why aren't you voting if you are so certain we have to lynch Sthar?

Was waiting for Sekai to post what they wanted to post. No need to rush.

[Wingback]

Why aren't you voting if you are so certain we have to lynch Sthar?

Who would you lynch today?

Do the spoiler posts please.

[sekai no ki]

Why aren't you voting if you are so certain we have to lynch Sthar?

Who would you lynch today?

Do the spoiler posts please.

Answer my question.