Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Don't worry, I'm not town reading you either, but I am scum reading karmic so.that's why I'm questioning him. The more he talks, hopefully the more he hangs himself.

[Garmr]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

[zakk]

EXPERIMENT NOTES 1.5

SUBJECTS ASSERTING AGGRESSIVE ACTIVITY:

WoodyWoodpecker [3] Garmr, pistachi0n, KarmicGuide
Ciara24 [2] Nachomamma8, Thor665
KarmicGuide [2] davesaz, WoodyWoodpecker
Nachomamma8 [1] Bellaphant
Thor665 [0]
Bellaphant [0]
davesaz [0]
eventi [0]
Fro99er [0]
Garmr [0]
gummmybear [0]
pistachi0n [0]
Radja [0]

SUBJECTS DISPLAYING PASSIVE TENDENCY:

Ciara24, eventi, Fro99er, gummmybear, Radja

[Thor665]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

Okay, we can play 20 questions, let me try to phrase this correctly for you;

Please share your opinion of Nacho's alignment along with a few explanatory thoughts.

[davesaz]

Ok. Time to catch up.

-Looks like we have town Nacho. Yay!

His interactions with Woody and Ciara both give me a town vibe. I especially liked #60

Have you played with scum Nacho and/or looked at scum games?

[davesaz]

Keep the walls to a Minimum early game please

Is it annoying to see walls of text when you already know who is mafia and who is town?

Not really when thor was my scum buddy in my first game with him I loved it. It depends on case by case bases.

That's an interesting response. Care to elaborate?

[davesaz]

VOTE: Nacho

Response to Radja looked strange, didn't like the threat of a vote.

Weak, very weak. How is it possible to get a read on that?

[pistachi0n]

You town read Bella off 5 posts? Uh OK...

I townread you off two and you didn't call me out - what is the issue?

It sounds like he's biased because the town read is on him and he doesn't want to screw that up by calling you out.

[Ciara24]

catching up. Sorry for the inactivity, I started college again this week and forgot what it's like to actually have to do things every day... 6am starts are not my friend

[Ciara24]

I consider them identical in this scenario because they are both based on out of game factors.

You are wagoning Nacho's vote on me

, which is based on his ability to read me in previous games, and nothing to do with this particular game.
Voting for someone because they were scum in a previous game is, again, nothing to do with this particular game, therefore they serve the same purpose here.

What?

Why in the universe would you think that i thought Nacho had a read on you worthy of being sheeped at this point in time?

I guess if you in theory thought that...for some reason...then that would be equally (well, in my opinion - vastly moreso) worse than Bella's vote.
but that is not my stated reasoning at all -

I said I was wagoning you

. Bella could have voted you in Nacho's place and my action would have been the same.

I don't really get the difference here? You are wagoning me but not Nacho's vote on me? Ok...
I presumed you were sheeping Nacho's read on me, I guess, because that was the only explanation that made sense to me.

Again, in 23, you stated that you were being a touch obstructionist with your answers. I simply asked why.
All I saw in your posts was snark - I wouldn't have called it being obstructionist, but I was interested in why you thought that your own play was going that way. Who are you trying to obstruct with your answers?

What part of my previous answer confuses you when I said 'I am not'?
Though I am mildly horrified that you would take my own word for how I'm playing once and not the second time - why is that?

Where did I take your word once but not the second time? I don't see that anywhere.

I'm kinda fascinated by this because you discussing your ability to read me well seems almost like a threat. We've only played two games together - both times I was town. I'm going to pretend you feel threatened by me being such a great player since forming a read on me is, after all, your highest priority.

I've seen your towngame twice. I think that if there's something off with your play, I'll be the first to pick up on it, and am the only player in the playerlist who actually posts a meta-threat to you. Forcing a hypothetical you!scum to react to me specifically makes your job harder and also, in some strange inexplicable way, makes me focus in heavier on you so that I can catch you early if you are scum.

Mmkay. Go crazy. I've seen your scum game once and your town game once, and read a couple of past games. I certainly wouldn't assume I'd be able to pick out if you're scum or not from early game. I'd like to think that my town game would be still improving anyway.

I'd like to hear from the remaining players before I place a vote.

Why? Who would you vote here if you didn't arbitrarily decide to wait for everyone to post?

My lack of early voting should hardly surprise you. I don't see any need to rush a vote. I'm not heavily scumreading anyone either, although Woody's spam posting reads a little scummy to me. I'm liking Karmic for town. Liking Thor for town too. Bit unsure about you, undecided on Garmr and the rest.

The other is reaction testing a specific person to see if they rise to the bait - 'scum in other games means you must be scum here'.

This is assigning purpose to a vote that didn't have any.

All of our votes at this stage were supposed to have purpose, Nacho

[pistachi0n]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

I don't like this interaction. It's early game and if you have strong impressions on Nacho you should share them. You asked that question seemingly out of the blue and are giving no justification as to why.

[Thor665]

I presumed you were sheeping Nacho's read on me, I guess, because that was the only explanation that made sense to me.

That might make sense if he had offered a read on you.
He didn't.
He literally stated that he voted you to let you know he was watching you - what do you think I was "sheeping" there exactly? An agreement that he was watching you? Or letting you know I was watching you?
None of that makes any sense - why are you acting like it does?

Where did I take your word once but not the second time? I don't see that anywhere.

You took my word that I was being obstructionist - but did not take my word for it the second time when I said I wasn't, and instead pressed the empty attack on me.
Why?

[Radja]

Two questions;

1. If you're reading Nacho why didn't you notice that he already commented on Woody's townishness or lack thereof?

2. I would advance a town read to Nacho but was offput by his quick and early semi-buddy of me with the whole 'looks like we're both town, wink, wink' line - how do you interpret that from him differently than I did?

1. Well, stuff happened between then and my post. Reads change. I wanted to get confirmation from him.

2. I don't know how well Nacho reads you. I'm also leaning town on you, so I'm not that bothered by his read on you. Have you played with scum-Nacho before?

Have you played with scum Nacho and/or looked at scum games?

I have played with both town-Nacho and scum-Nacho. I don't read games I was not a part of.

I'm not heavily scumreading anyone either, although Woody's spam posting reads a little scummy to me.

You should read this game and iso Woody. It should give you a pretty clear view on how Woody plays as town. I was scum in that game, so I might be a bit biased commenting on it, but I thought Woody was obvtown in that one.

[Thor665]

Have you played with scum-Nacho before?

Yes.

[Ciara24]

I'm not heavily scumreading anyone either, although Woody's spam posting reads a little scummy to me.

You should read this game and iso Woody. It should give you a pretty clear view on how Woody plays as town. I was scum in that game, so I might be a bit biased commenting on it, but I thought Woody was obvtown in that one.

Cheers, I'll give that a read later!

[Ciara24]

I presumed you were sheeping Nacho's read on me, I guess, because that was the only explanation that made sense to me.

That might make sense if he had offered a read on you.
He didn't.
He literally stated that he voted you to let you know he was watching you - what do you think I was "sheeping" there exactly? An agreement that he was watching you? Or letting you know I was watching you?
None of that makes any sense - why are you acting like it does?

I dislike when things don't make sense to me. I gotta try and work some sense into them. Seems clear that I misinterpreted your original post.

Where did I take your word once but not the second time? I don't see that anywhere.

You took my word that I was being obstructionist - but did not take my word for it the second time when I said I wasn't, and instead pressed the empty attack on me.
Why?[/quote]

ahhh I see what you mean. I appear to have skipped the second part of your answer the first time

[pistachi0n]

My interpretation of the Ciara vote is that he wanted RVS and that's as RVS as we can get with these rules. I'm not reading too much into it.

[Thor665]

Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

The train is leaving the tracks, hop on quick.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

You town read Bella off 5 posts? Uh OK...

I townread you off two and you didn't call me out - what is the issue?

It sounds like he's biased because the town read is on him and he doesn't want to screw that up by calling you out.

No it doesn't, I already answered his question though...

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?

[WoodyWoodpecker]

I don't really get the difference here? You are wagoning me but not Nacho's vote on me? Ok...
I presumed you were sheeping Nacho's read on me, I guess, because that was the only explanation that made sense to me

Why didn't you ask for clarification instead of assuming?

[WoodyWoodpecker]

My lack of early voting should hardly surprise you. I don't see any need to rush a vote. I'm not heavily scumreading anyone either, although Woody's spam posting reads a little scummy to me. I'm liking Karmic for town.

Why not vote to pressure somebody?

Also please explain how karmic is a town read when I just proved karmic lied about me than tried to play dumb

[Bellaphant]

...Dave, it's 'weak', but not scummy enough for a vote? That's weaker. And scummier.

Woody, why are you having issues with Pista? Also, I'd say you and Karmic miscommunication - why are you pushing them over the one thing you can't prove?

[Thor665]

I don't really get the difference here? You are wagoning me but not Nacho's vote on me? Ok...
I presumed you were sheeping Nacho's read on me, I guess, because that was the only explanation that made sense to me

Why didn't you ask for clarification instead of assuming?

Because she isn't scumhunting, but is attacking.

You should sheep me.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Woody, why are you having issues with Pista? Also, I'd say you and Karmic miscommunication - why are you pushing them over the one thing you can't prove

I'm asking him questions to get him to post more. The issue I'm having is already stated by me so why ask when its obvious what the issue is? He's not commenting on anything else, anything relevant.

IMO refusal to interact with people is more likely to come from scum not town.

I'm not sure what you mean about karmic, I already proved that what I needed to prove

[Garmr]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

Okay, we can play 20 questions, let me try to phrase this correctly for you;

Please share your opinion of Nacho's alignment along with a few explanatory thoughts.

I don't like this psot post

Took a while to find some games, you have a few games where I guess you played with somebody. I.will say I lol'd at the game where you posted I am Groot all game

VOTE: unvote

It was a fun game!

But seriously never try to undersell yourself

First of all, if it was actually Woody's intention to undersell himself to cover up for mistakes down the road, do you really think he would have included the "

apparently

I'm not as good a player I think I am" bits? It seems to me like if he was trying to make himself look like a bumbling VI, he wouldn't include the parts about him thinking he's a good player.

Second of all, why do you think that scum would actually attempt a strategy like that? I don't really think that townies not being confident in their own play is all that uncommon, so it doesn't seem like that reliable of a scumtell to me, even if there's some reason that I'm not picking up on for scum to do it.

I'm kinda fascinated by this because you discussing your ability to read me well seems almost like a threat. We've only played two games together - both times I was town. I'm going to pretend you feel threatened by me being such a great player since forming a read on me is, after all, your highest priority.

I've seen your towngame twice. I think that if there's something off with your play, I'll be the first to pick up on it, and am the only player in the playerlist who actually posts a meta-threat to you. Forcing a hypothetical you!scum to react to me specifically makes your job harder and also, in some strange inexplicable way, makes me focus in heavier on you so that I can catch you early if you are scum.

I'd like to hear from the remaining players before I place a vote.

Why? Who would you vote here if you didn't arbitrarily decide to wait for everyone to post?

The other is reaction testing a specific person to see if they rise to the bait - 'scum in other games means you must be scum here'.

This is assigning purpose to a vote that didn't have any.

VOTE: WoodyWoodpecker

I don't like that he says he's a bad player, I especially don't like 51 where he says he'll probably do something stupid.

I hate this vote.
You're sheeping Garmr without being honest about the fact that you're just sheeping Garmr.

It's a valid opinion but not really alignment indicative one. I really don't like how defensive this post is over woody. I don't know if it means his scum or his just someone who's going to clash heads with me over this game.