FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[Seiko x Naomi]

How the HELL did you beat me to MY OWN DAMN POINT that I've been WAITING FOR HALF A MONTH TO SAY?!?

<3

(I later realized the result was real, and he'd been redirected.)

can you walk me through this again (or link if I missed it)?

[mastin2]

I said in the mafia thread, "The INSTANT this game ends, it's gonna haunt me". (Anti can confirm.)

Though ironically enough, instead of being a massive point against me, the game might actually be the best evidence I have for being town.

I thought at the time I posted the message it'd be used against me, especially by hiplop, but the people now that it actually IS over aren't nearly as against me as I thought.

But it's pretty obvious when you look at it.
In that endgame, I made absolutely no effort to disguise I was scum. I was winning (well, so I thought...), so no need to do much effort.
It's a sharp contrast to this game.

[mastin2]

(I later realized the result was real, and he'd been redirected.)

can you walk me through this again (or link if I missed it)?

When not watching animez, sure.

[Cerberus v666]

How the HELL did you beat me to MY OWN DAMN POINT that I've been WAITING FOR HALF A MONTH TO SAY?!?

<3

(I later realized the result was real, and he'd been redirected.)

can you walk me through this again (or link if I missed it)?

Don't waste your time, she's wrong, it is impossible for kaboose to have received any information on her slot, because she's not a turk, so any redirection that occurred MUST have affected both Kaboose and Jaqen, meaning the innocent Kaboose had was on someone else. Can't have the guilty removed, and the innocent remain, nope. Either jaqens guilty is real and kaboose lied, as scum do, or you are neither guilty nor innocent based on investigations.

[Radja]

busy weekend...

[hiplop]

Mastin now do you understand why your slot is so confusing to me? I religiously read inorganic lol

[ProHawk]

This Mastin reverence is making me want to puke. If either of you aren't on Mastins team we are going to have words endgame.

[ProHawk]

also a possibility I want to throw out there is that Jaqen *did* investigate mastin N3 and that it wasn't redirected, but that he got a went-nowhere result and just didn't believe it. this would be incredibly dumb, but if I'm being perfectly honest, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if this is what happened.

I am going to immensely regret so much as bringing this up. -.-

Jaqen gets to see the factional ability of a player if no ability is used. So he obviously saw that Mastin HAS a factional ability.

[pieguyn]

Jaqen Hghar was Red XIII
Aligned with The Planet [Town Modified Tracker]

Receives results on any active abilities performed, or any factional abilities performed only if no active ability was also performed.

i took this to mean he _tracks_ factional abilities if no active abilities are performed, not outright learns what they are

[ProHawk]

I never said I was a plain tracker and trying to get me to reveal exactly how my role works and how it is I could have no doubt Mastin is scum is very much role fishing.

This is why Jaqen's result is a DIRECT indication that he got more information than a normal tracker on Mastin.

We know that his additional information is from factional abilities.

[Cerberus v666]

also a possibility I want to throw out there is that Jaqen *did* investigate mastin N3 and that it wasn't redirected, but that he got a went-nowhere result and just didn't believe it. this would be incredibly dumb, but if I'm being perfectly honest, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if this is what happened.

I am going to immensely regret so much as bringing this up. -.-

Jaqen gets to see the factional ability of a player if no ability is used. So he obviously saw that Mastin HAS a factional ability.

I never said I was a plain tracker and trying to get me to reveal exactly how my role works and how it is I could have no doubt Mastin is scum is very much role fishing.

This is why Jaqen's result is a DIRECT indication that he got more information than a normal tracker on Mastin.

We know that his additional information is from factional abilities.

No. Stop misunderstanding. There is NO indication that his results indicate whether the ability he tracked was factional, or individual. NONE! There is only the indication that he is only tracking one ability, and it shows the priority by which those ability's will be tracked.

How can you people not get these things? And the redirector thing being impossible(well, extremely unlikely, because there is a miniscule though non-zero chance that heideggers role didn't make flavor sense and he wasn't a turk specific role cop).

Stop making up things about dead peoples roles and motivations because they happen to fit the narrative you want.

[pieguyn]

No. Stop misunderstanding. There is NO indication that his results indicate whether the ability he tracked was factional, or individual. NONE! There is only the indication that he is only tracking one ability, and it shows the priority by which those ability's will be tracked.

^this

[borkjerfkin]

Guys, I'm gonna make one blanket announcement about hydra slipping:

Once or twice I can deal with. However, nearly every player is posting on their main when it is convenient for them.

Stop. I'm never counting a vote on an incorrectly posted account, and I'm going to start ramping up consequences for it if it doesn't stop.

This isn't directed specifically at pie -- a lot of people have been doing it. You signed up to play on a hydra. Play on your hydra.

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 6.5

[3] Radja (The Antagonist, hiplop, Seiko x Naomi)
[2] mastin2 (ProHawk, Xtoxm)
[1] ProHawk (mastin2)

[3] Not Voting (Cerberus v666, Radja, pirate mollie)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-09-21 17:00:00)

[ProHawk]

Cerb read the fing quote. His guilty is based on his MODIFIED role. The end. I'm not misunderstanding anything. The only modification to his role is the factional stuff.

[ProHawk]

Screw this. If people want to throw this game because of some God complex with Mastin, I'm done wasting my time. The last two days were horrendous and this one is arguably worse. Vote and lynch the guilty. There is no question she is guilty. Either Jaqen was lying or Mastin IS lying. Someone PM me when this day is done.

[The Antagonist]

Screw this. If people want to throw this game because of some God complex with Mastin, I'm done wasting my time. The last two days were horrendous and this one is arguably worse. Vote and lynch the guilty. There is no question she is guilty. Either Jaqen was lying or Mastin IS lying. Someone PM me when this day is done.

leave your vote on radja on the way out

[The Antagonist]

busy weekend...

tick

tock

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...

[The Antagonist]

Frankly you're the only reason Radja isn't conftown to me.

mastin, i'm not going to say i'll never ask you to just trust me again, because that's probably a lie

so i'll just ask you to just trust me here. never been a fan of promises w/ strings attached anyway.

[mastin2]

Mastin now do you understand why your slot is so confusing to me? I religiously read inorganic lol

Yes, but you read it without access to the scum PT in which I rather vigorously detailed my thought process. Among the important bits being that, yes, I would have defended you as town, because yes, you WERE obviously town even without me being scum I could have and would have seen it. The only difference is that as scum, I wasn't working as hard as I could have to stop your lynch, because it was beneficial to me; as town, I would have defended you even HARDER. And probably done mostly that, defense, rather than the balance of defense and offense I ended up doing. (I do try to do both as town, but I also try to prioritize. Try being the operative word. Too much defense, too much offense, rarely end up getting both. My scumgame is a whole lot more "balanced" than my towngame.)

This Mastin reverence is making me want to puke.

Can't you get more original banter? Jaqen's calling from the dead thread. He wants his complaint about me back.

(No, seriously, that's exactly what he says about me, in spite of how it is, very obviously, not true.)

Stop making up things about dead peoples roles and motivations because they happen to fit the narrative you want.

I'll stop if he stops.

Because judging off of PLAY is exactly what I want.
(Oh, and that's another take-away from Inorganic Chemistry: strong as my scumgame was there, I had a massive boost in the form of a legitimate role, which I never lied about, just used in a scum-oriented way. People like Nacho, Wicked, and LC--big-name players!--cleared me almost entirely because of the softclaim. So don't judge by role; judge by play. I have always, ALWAYS been an advocate of it, because it never stops being true. Judging me by play, I would have lost Inorganic Chemistry. Judging me by role, and that's one reason I was able to win.)

[mastin2]

[3] Radja (The Antagonist, hiplop, Seiko x Naomi)
[2] mastin2 (ProHawk, Xtoxm)
[1] ProHawk (mastin2)
[3] Not Voting (Cerberus v666, Radja, pirate mollie)

^Btw, just in case there was any doubt, the Radja wagon contains at least one scum since it hasn't been hammered yet.

[mastin2]

Frankly you're the only reason Radja isn't conftown to me.

mastin, i'm not going to say i'll never ask you to just trust me again, because that's probably a lie
so i'll just ask you to just trust me here. never been a fan of promises w/ strings attached anyway.

I'm sorry.

I can't.
I can maybe trust you to be town. Maybe.

And you're right about one thing, the closest I can come to suspecting Radja is based off of effort to find stuff out: hiplop looks like he is, Seiko look like they are, mollie definitely is, you look like you are, I have definitely been, Cerb looks like he has, ProHawk definitely has not been, and Radja also hasn't (admittedly, Xtoxm also fits into that class, but screw scumreading him), but while it's a valid point...

...Nothing about it makes me want to lynch him before ProHawk.
I want to lynch ProHawk. And when ProHawk flips scum, work from there. Maybe I can trust you after that. But before? I'm sorry. I just can't let myself believe in it.

[mastin2]

Judging me by play, I would have lost Inorganic Chemistry. Judging me by role, and that's one reason I was able to win.

Want to reemphasize this.
Play had stuff like me calling Aristophanes the scum rolecop 100% town and being off that lynch. Play had me consistently make bad calls. Play had me barely trying to hide my scum interactions. Play had me manipulating things blatantly.

Yet here, most of that isn't true. Here, playwise, I may not be perfectly competent, but I've demonstrated competency. Playwise, I have no scum interactions because no such connection could exist. Playwise, while I may have an agenda, there's no manipulation involved, no strings, no puppeteering, just solid effort to figure out the gamestate and to actually work with the players.

Oh, that's another difference between my scumgame and my towngame.
In my scumgame, I don't need to work with others; I need to pull the strings so that they willingly follow me

thinking

it's their own idea. (For instance? When I called TSO town for the Wicked cop, Cerb dropped me from suspicion. He thought that was his idea, but it's an example of me implanting the idea in others' heads. I literally brainwash the town as scum.)
In my towngame, I DO need to work with others, so I will make those call-outs, I will reach out to players, I will try to interact with them and be reasonable. I may change my mind on who said town people are, thus, alienating them, and when I alienate someone, it's ugly, but that just solidifies the point.

In my scumgame, I don't make enemies; everyone wants to be my friend, or at least treat me respectfully. (Barring occasional exceptions, which I then mislynch or use as smokescreen.)
In my towngame, I don't give a damn about making enemies, and am openly antagonistic.

These two things seem to contradict, but they really augment each other. Towngames, I need to work with people, but don't know who TO work with, and thus, I pursue my leads, and make enemies when they don't work out.
Scumgames, I let others work for me, thus, need them to not be actively antagonistic to me.

It might sound confusing at first, but it's night and day when observed in practice.

[Seiko x Naomi]

Jaqen Hghar was Red XIII
Aligned with The Planet [Town Modified Tracker]

Receives results on any active abilities performed, or any factional abilities performed only if no active ability was also performed.

i took this to mean he _tracks_ factional abilities if no active abilities are performed, not outright learns what they are

No. Stop misunderstanding. There is NO indication that his results indicate whether the ability he tracked was factional, or individual. NONE! There is only the indication that he is only tracking one ability, and it shows the priority by which those ability's will be tracked.

^this

[Seiko x Naomi]

i'm giving myself a checkpoint

at this point, i feel close to 100% that aeris/xtoxm and the antagonist are town

8. Cerberus v666
9. pirate mollie
10. hiplop
13. mastin2
14. Prohawk
15. Radja

i feel relatively comfortable saying one of the protective roles has to be scum, aka 1 scum in Cv666, mollie, Radja. i'm actually considering that it might be Cv666 because out of all of these claims i think bulletproof makes a lot of sense as a scum role and i really, really, really hated everything fresh did when he was in the game, but based on play i would say Radja is scum. i think his non-consecutive target modifier is probably legitimate even if he is a scum doc, btw, so i'm not really factoring that into account in terms of how i'm reading him. i also think if there are 4 meteor scum (which is what i'm assuming) having two town protective roles makes the most sense in this setup.

from there, we have 1-2 scum in hiplop, mastina, hawk. and if i'm being perfectly honest, i think this implicates hiplop and hawk a lot more than mastina. i don't see mastina and hawk on the same scum team. i *could* potentially see mastina and hiplop. but i think that hawk and hiplop makes a lot more sense than either of these pairs.

i'm going to straight up admit i haven't looked too much into this, but, meh. i've been busy recently.