Open 608: Jungle Republic - A jungle is conquered(game over)


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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:14 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 522, shaddowez wrote:I'm not liking the fact that there's absolutely no counter wagon to Wanderer. If nothing else that gives me a slight town read, as scum and WW are both willing to get on any wagon that's not their own faction. I still don't believe anybody gave me a case on her either from my question in 481, only FB responding and telling me to vote Wanderer.

Isn't there only one werewolf left? Or am I missing something?
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:21 am

Post by Vedith »

There is only 1 WW and 2 scum...
I claim scum \o/
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:27 am

Post by DeasVail »

Wanderer-nl


I'm pretty confident in wanderer not being mafia. There's a reasonably early vote on Savant in , an unvote in , a change to the myko wagon in and then he returns to the Savant wagon in , even though it hasn't progressed at all. I'm pretty sure this is not how wanderer-mafia would operate. He strikes me here as a thoughtful player and the above is way too messy if he's scum with Savant. I think scum tend to make a decision to bus someone and stick with it, and would be a lot more worried about the conspicuous nature of their flip-flopping once Savant would flip scum. Plus he was a pretty strong force in getting her lynched. So I'm happy to rule that out unless further evidence tells me otherwise.

What concerns me most though is and . These posts sound to me like scum wanting to post about dying when actually they know they're not going to die because they control the shot. I think you're pretty town otherwise, but give me a reason for you making those posts that's better than mine.

Hmm, actually I'm pretty sure wanderer can't be werewolf either because is just so awkward if so that I can't imagine scum comfortably posting that unless they saw in the future and knew I'd townread them for it, but I'd still like my questions to be answered.

Will post more tomorrow. Probably will explain vedith too.

Still as good as ever with a shaddowez lynch.
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:27 am

Post by DeasVail »

ok, so shaddowez's reasoning doesn't make sense. Cool!
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:49 am

Post by Wanderer-nl »

First skim of entire thread, this is what stood out for now:
In post 129, hayatoBL wrote:Prod-dodge post as I'm too tired to write until I'm awake tomorrow. Sorry guys.

I'll let deas vail dip his toes in town pool for now. Have scum-feels on wander er again and will elaborate later.
UNVOTE:

Never had a scum-read on Mario tbh.

Will probably vote for firebringer will do this tomorrow.

Funny how Hayato changed his mind after . In his following posts he doesn't address me or talk about me. Hayato finally makes his case against me, and if his priority was with scumhunting and he really believed I was scum, he would have done that way earlier instead of talking about other players. He responded to me again and keeps thinking I'm scum, ok that's fine.
Hayato doesn't want to join the wagon on Savant, thinks it's scum-motivated. That doesn't even matter because it's multiball. I'd be happy if for instance a goon made a case against a ww. Anyway, he does want to lynch Pimhel (flipped town), Vedith (felt like counterwagon to Savant) or mykonian (flipped town).
Day 2 I start a wagon on Savant again, and Hayato doesn't engage with me about that while Day 1 he was against the wagon and thought I was scum.

shaddowez calls out Jazzmyn. Wants more activity from his buddy?

PEdit: Hi Deasvail, gonna answer you in a separate post.
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:58 am

Post by Wanderer-nl »

@Deasvail: The reason I made those posts about killing me and hoping to die came from a dark place inside of me. I'm happy I wasn't killed but at the time I think I was bored with the game and annoyed I was one of the few that saw scum in Savant. I'm used to everyone being all over ika's scummeta and I really missed that here.
I can't look into the future and I still don't know for sure what made Anti confscum, though I do have a pretty good idea. I'm trying my best to remember this for post-game because I'm often oblivious to such things and I want to learn to recognize tells better.


Running out of time right now so will do iso's tonight when I'm back home. My priorities lie with Hayato, Vedith and Shaddowez currently. Titus doesn't feel good to me either but I haven't suspected Klick so no priority there. Still waiting for her answer and a catch-up.
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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:55 am

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In post 501, Wanderer-nl wrote:@Titus: Are you deliberately being obtuse? What are you trying to gain from that?


I am right, not obtuse. I am trying to lynch scum.

I thought this was just you gloating in my face
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:57 am

Post by Titus »

Oh and here's my catchup.

*farts* I never read on subbing in as town.
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:54 am

Post by Wanderer-nl »

Ok, I won't be interacting with Titus any further this game.

Just got home and will start reading iso's as promised.
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:37 am

Post by Wanderer-nl »

Starting off with Vedith.
feels like fake town. Why ask clarity about what Firebringer means and then proceed to only answer one of those? It makes me feel like you had to think about what answer you should give, instead of intuitively going with your interpretation. Which points to scum-awareness.
Why did I never ask what Vedith's read of Mario was?
the bit where he addresses Deasvail (, , and are relevant to this) feels off to me. Again he seems to be more aware of himself than he actually should be if he is town. Also last bit at shaddowez where he compares himself to gameplay in terms of making content, that looks to me like deflecting.
What exactly is the meaning of that facepalm-emoticon?
and and again with the awareness and being sceptical of someone (Klick, now Titus) townreading Vedith while he suddenly agrees that he hasn't made content to make him look town.
This is just making an opening for a change of read on gameplay who was formerly in this slot. Vedith was pretty sure about gameplay being scum so I don't understand how he so easily changes his mind.
Would lynch Savant over a no-lynch. Never happened.
Not really out of nowhere but still a little, he suddenly likes votes on Klick, yet isn't voting himself.
and asks for thoughts on a flip that would be antitown to share before a flip.

I'm going to be lazy and quote my other posts on Vedith I made today here because it will just be repetition anyway.
Spoiler:
In post 476, Wanderer-nl wrote:
In post 448, shaddowez wrote:*cut*
In post 413, Wanderer-nl wrote:VOTE: Vedith

Wanderer
, was this based mainly on and ?

349: No, this one just adds to it.
352: Not the first part, but the 2nd part is what made me think he's scummy. I had very good reasons for scumreading Savant which Vedith didn't acknowledge. I also feel like he's trying to look like he's playing his towngame, instead of actually playing it.
kind of feels like soft-defending. I actually had arguments for Savant being scum and Vedith never questioned me abou that but when I made a silly post where I said Hayato is scum Vedith immediately jumps on that and

PEdit:
: If you were townreading Savant then why say you'd lynch them over no-lynch? And you never voted and didn't agree with the hammer so I don't get this at all.

In post 491, Wanderer-nl wrote:I've actually laid out most of it already, but there's something I didn't add yet. Which is that you seem very self-aware , and also . It feels a little over the top.
and feel scum-motivated and when they happened, Savant hadn't flipped yet and I thought Vedith could be a ww trying to find out anything to take into account when choosing his NK. Currently I think he's more likely to be a goon because he didn't want to vote Savant but that doesn't exclude him from being a ww. His interactions with Anti felt SvS to me. Maybe opposing, maybe not.
So there it is, I'd like you to respond also to my , some unanswered questions there.


About , in I called Hayato scum, it may not have been a direct response to Hayato but it definitely was a response to .

Vedith: What are you trying to gain from pretending we are buddies? I honestly don't get it, if it's just a joke then I completely missed it (as I often do) but maybe there's a more serious reasoning behind it?

I checked the vc's again for the wagons Day 1 and 2nd on the wagon is flipped WW. So that makes it very unlikely for Vedith to be a WW as well. I guess Anti saw this too but didn't really want to townfirm Vedith. 1st on the wagon is Deasvail, currently not clear but remember having a townread on, so I don't believe this wagon was actually a counterwagon to Savant. Vedith can still be a goon. Also, that Day ended in no-lynch which usually points to only scum being wagoned?
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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:38 am

Post by Wanderer-nl »

I wanted to press enter to a new line but instead I was too eager and hit submit.
I'm now going to read Hayato, shaddowez after that, depending on those reads I will move on to others. When I'm done I'll decide who to vote.
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:44 am

Post by Vedith »

Of course it's a joke, Wanderer... :giggle:
It was more sarcasm than anything though.
I claim scum \o/
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:53 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 528, DeasVail wrote:ok, so shaddowez's reasoning doesn't make sense. Cool!

Those are the best kinds of reasons!
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:56 am

Post by Wanderer-nl »

The discussion between Hayato and me that comes after that and also later his scumread on me, makes me think he wanted to prepare for his flip and make it look like he was bussing in RVS.
Instead of answering that right away he decided to scumread me for that question.
comes right after Deasvail explains his push on Mario was a stretch and suddenly Hayato never scumread Mario.
Hayato, do you believe Firebringer's response in the next post? What I like about this post is that you were willing to adjust your read of Firebringer and didn't seem to be looking for reasons to scumread him. On the other hand, I have no idea if you really ever had the intention of voting Firebringer.
gameplay could have insisted he felt Mario was scummier than Savant, instead in he changes his vote to Savant.
So because Klick and I won that game we should be considered the strongest players? That's flattering but to me this post looks pointing fingers for pointing fingers.
was a response to Jazzmyn explaining how they couldnt be active and Hayato called them out on it and my first thought was: probably not buddies. But then the wine kicks in.
I looked really really hard at it and I've come to the conclusion that this one looks town-motivated. When I first saw it I didn't like his townread on Savant.
Who is this to? I looked for it myself but couldn't find it.
His stance on a hydra looking double as town makes sense to me.
Starting to move more to null now.
Finally his case on me. If I didn't know my own role I would definitely be interested where that push would go. The points Hayato makes against me aren't unreasonable, I responded in and there was one thing I didn't understand that I do get now.
Hayato's response to my 198, I have thought about what he said even after I made and his stance on my read on Mario is more clear to me now. I think it's still a playstyle-thing, though I've been sharing all my reads less, and just the ones that mattered. I don't need to overthink things to get thoughts down, I don't need to respond to every single thing. It takes off a little pressure actually. Ok, back to the game now.
Why would Vedith get quicklynched? Why him, myk and Pimhel over Savant?
So I was sort of leaning towards Hayato's read on Savant just being plain wrong, but this post makes me worry again. As if he wants Bella there to prevent the auto-scumread on the ika-head of the hydra.
After that he hasn't posted and it looks like he site-flaked..
Currently I'm undecided on this slot. I want Hayato (or his replacement) to do a catch-up. Share a couple of reads. I'd say respond to the lynches of Savant and Anti but there doesn't seem to be a point to asking how anyone feels about scum being lynched, and it's also painfully obvious why Pimhel was NK'ed and myk's death was a sure fact before Night even started.
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:40 am

Post by Wanderer-nl »

shaddowez is null, I need to look at Deasvail.
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:11 pm

Post by Wanderer-nl »

Deasvail
Why ask Mario in why he won't make a more informed read on Savant while you voted them in when only half-assedly agreeing to the theory?
votes Vedith and actually comes back with his 'more' in . 128 made Deasvail's push on Mario look a lot bigger than it actually was. And why would anyone just go along with anyone else? This is multiball and in general town is more aware of that than scum.
At first I really liked this. A (seemingly) thorough catch-up that I wouldn't see coming from scum. I also needed to restart, and I actually think I'd expect scum to go with what they planned and only need their last post(s) in the scum PT to catch up on their thoughts if they're using it right. But that doesn't mean scum wouldn't make a catch-up post.

Deasvail: I was townreading you as well but you don't seem to have issues with that like you do with Klick. How come?
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:13 pm

Post by shaddowez »

In post 524, Wanderer-nl wrote:Hi shaddowez, did you read my ? All the fingerpointing I'm doing? That makes it look like I have a multitude of suspects and not voting any of them while really I only have 1 real suspect currently, and I'm sceptical of Titus. I'm not caught up enough yet to make a good vote.
looks like you're calling out Firebringer, outright says you think hayato is scum, and then Vedith is your primary read.
In post 525, DeasVail wrote:
In post 522, shaddowez wrote:I'm not liking the fact that there's absolutely no counter wagon to Wanderer. If nothing else that gives me a slight town read, as scum and WW are both willing to get on any wagon that's not their own faction. I still don't believe anybody gave me a case on her either from my question in 481, only FB responding and telling me to vote Wanderer.

Isn't there only one werewolf left? Or am I missing something?
I never said there was more than 1 WW. The both in my statement referred to the predicates scum and WW, not multiple WW. (Also, notice the both was after WW, not before).
In post 528, DeasVail wrote:ok, so shaddowez's reasoning doesn't make sense. Cool!
What reasoning are you talking about? And wouldn't actually asking about them be more in line with scum hunting than just saying "Cool!" ?
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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:24 pm

Post by Wanderer-nl »

@shaddowez: How does look like I'm calling out Firebringer? Reread 511, you missed a bunch.
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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:34 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 540, Wanderer-nl wrote:Deasvail
Why ask Mario in why he won't make a more informed read on Savant while you voted them in when only half-assedly agreeing to the theory?
votes Vedith and actually comes back with his 'more' in . 128 made Deasvail's push on Mario look a lot bigger than it actually was. And why would anyone just go along with anyone else? This is multiball and in general town is more aware of that than scum.
At first I really liked this. A (seemingly) thorough catch-up that I wouldn't see coming from scum. I also needed to restart, and I actually think I'd expect scum to go with what they planned and only need their last post(s) in the scum PT to catch up on their thoughts if they're using it right. But that doesn't mean scum wouldn't make a catch-up post.

Deasvail: I was townreading you as well but you don't seem to have issues with that like you do with Klick. How come?

The question to Mario was because he wanted to hammer Savant, or so he claimed. Savant was the best vote option to me at the time, but I would not have wanted them lynched and didn't have a confident read there at all.
Regarding Vedith, I thought that my push on Mario was pretty weak and so I thought that town would recognise this while scum may want to encourage my suspicion of Mario and direct it away from a team-mate. I think Vedith is town now though and will explain that this morning.

--

Shaddowez, I'm referring to my . You're using the fact that there's no counterwagon to Wanderer as a reason to townread him, but if he's a werewolf then where is the counterwagon going to come from? I don't need to ask you because the answer is nowhere. So I can quite confidently say that the reasoning doesn't make sense, right?
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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:38 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Oh wait, I forgot to answer the townread question.

There were 2 reasons for it not being as concerning from you. One is because of my history with Klick. He's wrongly trusted me before so I'd expect him to be more cautious here. And second is because your townread was just a mention (iirc) of 20 feeling town to you. I feel this kind of reasoning is the sort that scum would consider weak and that they'd opt for more ~logical~ reasoning (i.e. Klick), whereas a post "feeling town" is often the way town will get reads (especially game) if they're being honest.
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:39 pm

Post by DeasVail »

*especially early-game
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:21 pm

Post by Wanderer-nl »

I don't think I need you to explain your townread on Vedith, I think I get it.
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:11 pm

Post by DeasVail »

I was under the impression that you thought Vedith was scum. Is that still the case?
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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:44 am

Post by Wanderer-nl »

I'm not 100% certain I got the reasons for your read on Vedith right, but if I did I'm not sure if I share that opinion.
How is your opinion of Titus?
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:33 am

Post by Vedith »

Just relax guys, I'm not scum neither am I WW.

Titus is bad some how, I can feel it!
I claim scum \o/

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