Open 608: Jungle Republic - A jungle is conquered(game over)

[Titus]

Oh wait, I forgot to answer the townread question.

There were 2 reasons for it not being as concerning from you. One is because of my history with Klick. He's wrongly trusted me before so I'd expect him to be more cautious here. And second is because your townread was just a mention (iirc) of 20 feeling town to you. I feel this kind of reasoning is the sort that scum would consider weak and that they'd opt for more ~logical~ reasoning (i.e. Klick), whereas a post "feeling town" is often the way town will get reads (especially game) if they're being honest.

This is totally backwards to me. Sure in RVS or early subbing in, people go with "feeling" but logic tends to take over late. Gut feelings cannot be shown as false, so it's an easy refuge for scum.

Scum generally don't care to be checked out at all and stick far too hard for the reasons they have.

[Wanderer-nl]

Continuing iso-reads..

@NM: Why do you think I'm scum? Doesnt have to be a huge wall but at least give us something to respond to.
Reading Mario:
19 Considering a lot of players are calling the mafia scum and the ww actual ww, makes me think that this tell maybe not work. Savant made a similar post and flipped mafia so that points to the tell working. But I had a stand-alone scumread on them and without that tell would have still lynched them. So I'm going to disregard this.
The rest of Mario's iso is kind of a trainwreck. There are no reads, he seems to be rather defensive, and on top of that he seems to be looking for a seer-claim. Either he's rolefishing or talling his buddy to claim, still fishing for a cc from the real seer.
Is it weird for Mario to replace out of games, does anyone know?

On to Klick:
With his early vote and scumread on Savant I hardly think he's a goon.
37 it mkaes perfect sense for Klick to ask Firebringer because Firebringer was the one to ask the question that gave Klick info. 41 and 42 back that up.
107 I like the conclusions Klick comes up with when he looks at the Savant-wagon. And he's not just looking for scumreads but also townreads but now I realize he's treating this as singleball, not multiball. Maybe Klick realized too and that's why he replaced out?
Checked back because I thought Anti didn't mention Klick. He didn't say anything about Klick but did say he wanted Hermit dead who was replacing Klick before Titus. And Hermit never even posted, he won't show up in the drop-down menu for iso-ing. So that makes me think Anti was aware about Hermit replacing Klick.
Please someone interact with Titus.

Firebringer and I are in an ongoing that should end soon (same one as Vedith actually) so will then be able to elaborate more. Sorry about that.

[Titus]

You see Wanderer...

You're asking others to interact with me, but refusing to do so yourself. Busiwork.

[ZZZX]

With 8 alive its 5 to lynch

Alive:
DeasVail: (L-5)
Titus: Vedith(L-4)
shaddowez: DeasVail(L-4)
hayatoBL: (L-5)
Not Mafia: (L-5)
Vedith: Titus(L-4)
Wanderer-nl: NotMafia,Firebringer(L-2)
Firebringer: (L-5)

Deadline (expired on 2015-10-01 16:19:52)

For alive players use VCS for now. I can update alive list today if needed though.

[Vedith]

So who are we lynching?

[ZZZX]

Also finding replacement for hayato.

[DeasVail]

Why I think Vedith is town:

I like the thoughts on Klick in 200, 202 and 220.
I also like 279.

But what I find most town about him is his attitude to the suspicion of him. I do need to consider the possibility that it is fabricated, but he gives this genuine air of not really caring if he is lynched or suspected, but at the same time you can tell he does care about working the game out. And this doesn't look like "scum" scumhunting, who's main concern is to look really active and ~town~.

I believe 355 is the best example of what I'm trying to say.

I don't know if this really explains it well at all (I thought I would be able to do it better than this), but at the moment Vedith is one of my strongest townreads.

[DeasVail]

Also I'd like to lynch Shaddowez. I wasn't a fan of his response to me.

[ZZZX]

Prodding NMafia

[Firebringer]

It is time to be a sheep.

VOTE: Shaddowez

[shaddowez]

@shaddowez: How does 505 look like I'm calling out Firebringer? Reread 511, you missed a bunch.

505 isn't an outright FoS, but your comment of "If you're scum..." reads to me like a way to raise suspicion. I know there's more information in 511, but I don't see anything that reverses your read on Hayato.

Shaddowez, I'm referring to my 525. You're using the fact that there's no counterwagon to Wanderer as a reason to townread him, but if he's a werewolf then where is the counterwagon going to come from? I don't need to ask you because the answer is nowhere. So I can quite confidently say that the reasoning doesn't make sense, right?

That's assuming she's WW. If she's scum, there would still be a reason for a counterwagon. Your assumption would have to be based on knowing she's not scum, which there's only one way to know.

me.

You mean the one where I call out your reading comprehension and ask you to actually interact? To quote you, cool.

Call it an OMGUS, but I'm getting a pretty scummy vibe from DV. Votes IS early on, then moves over to Vedith because he reads me as scummy, but doesn't like Vedith's response to me. Joins the middle of the IS wagon on D2 with no real explanation. That and his reaction to my defending the Wanderer wagon has me willing to do this.

VOTE: DeasVail

[Vedith]

FB really does have a summoning power.

@Shadow - Can you elaborate on the DV read?
I don't like how DV is trying to call me town without need (Not even call me town but put a full blown case as if I'm at L1). There is no indication that I am getting lynched today as it stands but yet it's like he is trying to sweet talk me into voting you.

Also @ Shadow - I'm getting a sketchy feeling with FB too. What's your opinion on FB/DV as the scum team?

[Not_Mafia]

Whoah I was prodded, knda lost reads wise, someone claim scum

[DeasVail]

@Shaddowez: Your original post included WW in your reasoning, and considering that there's only 2 mafia, it's still kind of flawed considering there is a fair number of people that haven't voted for wanderer. I'm not sure what you're expecting counter-wagon-wise, but 2 mafia are not going to be incredibly obvious and wagon together right away if they can help it anyway (in most circumstances).

@Vedith: My elaboration on the read of you was because I want to try and have it so that people aren't distracted by suspicion of you (particularly wanderer) and instead lynch shaddowez. Ambitious I know, but I may as well try.

[DeasVail]

You mean the one where I call out your reading comprehension and ask you to actually interact?

Please tell me where there was a problem with my reading comprehension. Why are you being all high and mighty about getting me to interact when there was nothing for me to gain from it?

[Wanderer-nl]

DV: Your opinion on Titus please.

[DeasVail]

When I made my first post, I didn't realise that titus was the klick slot. Can't say I have much of an opinion on her alone either way, but if I had to guess on a werewolf, it would be her based on klick and poe etc.

[Titus]

Also I'd like to lynch Shaddowez. I wasn't a fan of his response to me.

Why were you not a fan?

[Titus]

Whoah I was prodded, knda lost reads wise, someone claim scum

I claim Alien. No one gets me. :-p

[DeasVail]

Also I'd like to lynch Shaddowez. I wasn't a fan of his response to me.

Why were you not a fan?

I just didn't like it. I don't really know why. And I feel good enough about my other reasons that I'm not going to try explaining it.

[ZZZX]

Your mod is slightly vla for its eid here and stuff. Updates will be slow but I'll get a vote count once every day or two at least.
Still looking for hayato replacement
-Z

[Wanderer-nl]

VC done later tonight (and flip)

locked meanwhile (Preparing for uni first week and stuff)

Would still like this vc.

[Wanderer-nl]

FB really does have a summoning power.

@Shadow - Can you elaborate on the DV read?
I don't like how DV is trying to call me town without need (Not even call me town but put a full blown case as if I'm at L1). There is no indication that I am getting lynched today as it stands but yet it's like he is trying to sweet talk me into voting you.

Also @ Shadow - I'm getting a sketchy feeling with FB too. What's your opinion on FB/DV as the scum team?

Deasvail was doing reads on everyone.
And wtf is up with you critisizing everyone that's having a townread on you? Are you scum? (and scum is mafia+WW)

[Vedith]

I never trust anyone who town reads me overall, even more so when they put so much effort into it.

[shaddowez]

FB really does have a summoning power.

@Shadow - Can you elaborate on the DV read?
I don't like how DV is trying to call me town without need (Not even call me town but put a full blown case as if I'm at L1). There is no indication that I am getting lynched today as it stands but yet it's like he is trying to sweet talk me into voting you.

Also @ Shadow - I'm getting a sketchy feeling with FB too. What's your opinion on FB/DV as the scum team?

His D1 play with IS had me wary, but not so much I had a full scum read yet. I'm mainly talking about posts 70 through 77, where he doesn't like the 3-person theory, yet votes IS based on it because it's the best there is. Then he jumps off that wagon to vote you (Vedith) because he doesn't like your response to me 274 lists out a bunch of scum reads, with IS being one of them, but "bringing up the rear". Completely skips over Wanderer in his reads list in 507, which I don't want to get into a read on Wanderer based off of because of WIFOM, but for town to be doing a catch up reads list you would think they'd include everybody.

As for FB, I'm actually not reading him as scum in this game. It's mostly gut and how I'm reading him in this game compared to others I've been in with him recently. What specific interactions make you think they'd be a team?

@Shaddowez: Your original post included WW in your reasoning, and considering that there's only 2 mafia, it's still kind of flawed considering there is a fair number of people that haven't voted for wanderer. I'm not sure what you're expecting counter-wagon-wise, but 2 mafia are not going to be incredibly obvious and wagon together right away if they can help it anyway (in most circumstances).

You mean the one where I call out your reading comprehension and ask you to actually interact?

Please tell me where there was a problem with my reading comprehension. Why are you being all high and mighty about getting me to interact when there was nothing for me to gain from it?

Of course my post had WW as part of the reasoning - if it didn't, I wouldn't be looking at the entirety of the game. The problem is I never said anything about multiple WW being left, which is what you read and seem to be trying to use as a flaw in my argument. There's three scum left, so the only way I see there being no counterwagon is if Wanderer is town (neither WW(1) or scum(2) would care who gets lynched, so they vote for whoever, or if she's WW (same argument as town applies to the mafia team here, but if she's a goon the other goon would probably be trying to start a wagon somewhere else). Since I don't think she's WW, that leaves me believer she's either a goon or a townie, and since I've not seen any actual good argument for her being a goon, even after asking multiple times, I'm prone to thinking she's a town wagon right now.