Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

So Qualford/Gwen

I new few more names and this game is good as solved.

I like the confidence in helping solve the game! But I would like it if you tried a whole lot harder to solve the game because this effort isn't cutting it!! Gwen isn't scum and you picking on her like this is makes me angry!

if davidoff thought he had half the scumteam solved already why would he need lots of effort

he hasn't come back with the rest of it solved yet obviously but this doesn't make sense as a critique

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

Okay, I get that any player is going to see themselves as obv. town. However, that's not what Gumby was saying. He said that he could act obv. town depending on the role. He made it explicitly clear that miller was not one of those roles. But if he was hoping to play miller by playing obv. town, then why did he claim? If he knows he can play obv. town in such a manner, then him drawing miller should not make a difference.

because pressure + having an incriminating secret = rash decisions

And on your sample size thing, it's absolute BS that you wouldn't step back and look at the bigger picture. Going individually is fine, but when you would then look and see that you're calling the entire wagon scum based on a Gumby push, you should have stopped and realized your assumptions were skewed somewhere. You didn't. And the fact that you attacked both posts at the same time in the same post shows that you had no interest in figuring that out. You just jumped on something you could push, and you white knighted the miller.

no seriously fuck the bigger picture with a two-vote wagon and individual posts that look bad. you can't vote for a bigger picture on day 1. you find individual behavior that is scummy and pursue it

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

Also forgot to mention I hated Dipsy's Phantom attack for not posting. Still goes with finding easy things to just push.

you have confirmation bias

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

soothsayer, how does that dimitri case look good to you, it looks like a bunch of reaching crap to me and the wagon as a whole is sketchy

not soothsayer but is a lot less than i expected for a whole post devoted to giant allcaps death cry

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

I mean I really feel like I've peeled back the facade and showed the scum motivation and intent, and everybody is just wandering around ignoring the blatantly scummy scum. I mean, this is RT Mad King territory here. And you say he explains it, and I'm still pointing going "It still doesn't make sense from town! That explanation doesn't make sense!". I just want you guys to stop trusting the obvious super villain here.

lol i'm flattered but you're just wrong

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

Vote:Dmitri

Go ST. Lurk off that wagon like a champ.

Let's play a game. Color the wagons.

• Votecount 1.12
  
  
  
  Dimitri Davidoff (6)— Greatvalue,
  The Phantom of the Opera, Natural Aristocracy, Quailford LOL, Meganfan1998
  
  
  Quailford LOL (4)
  —
  Dimitri Davidoff, Shiba Tatsuya,
  Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy, Gumby
  
  
  Natural Aristocracy (3)—
  Shady,
  You are dead to me,
  Spider Gw
  en
  
  
  CellPhone (1)— the_soothsayer
  
  

  Not Voting

  (1)— CellPhone
  
  
  It takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-10-24 08:08:29).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Prodding CellPhone and Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy. Let's pick it up a bit please.

How far off am I? Do your own.

who does this without flips

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

not excited about the davidoff wagon at all, greatvalue closest thing to a townread i have on it and that's mostly from aristocracy anyway

soothsayer you need a new vote

cellphone probably just needs to be replaced

[Natural Aristocracy]

Well, I'm glad that Shady's case has literally no merits to it because he keeps coming to worthless conclusions thanks to his confbias.
Saying useless mudslingy-BS like "He kept that piss-weak vote on dimitri instead of moving it around is because he was too afraid to fake anything resembling real suspicion" is exactly representative of the mindset Shady has going into reading me. Rather than considering why I stuck to that wagon, or why I did not join other wagons, he comes to a conclusion that's removed from the reality of the game, not even truly scummy, but he pounds it in as scum-oriented anyway.

Think for a damn second, Shady. At this point, sadly, even that seems beyond you. Your frustration and incorrect assumptions amuse me, though.
Stay forever basic.

I'm not entirely sure why Gwen is voting me, either, but I'm sure it's for 'great' reasons, too.

[Natural Aristocracy]

VOTE: Dimitri

If your goal was to convince me that your play is wrong and stupid but town, Shady, you've succeeded there.

[Shiba Tatsuya]

Time is a commodity. I'm going to make quick replies to pertinent issues.

415 Crying "not in context" when I catch precisely what you are doing. That doesn't make me "dumb" but just reinforces my scumread on you.

[snip]

You did not catch anything. It's like digging a hole in your backyard and shouting that you've found gold, when it's only a yellow Lego brick the previous owner left behind. I'm not sure if you're deliberately being obtuse or are naturally so. The former is scummy, while the latter makes you a VI.

Being on the defensive constantly is something many people read as scummy.

Correct.

I am fully prepared to handle such a scenario.

This post is directly in contradiction to ST stating that NA should focus on "absolving" the wagon on himself rather than attacking the logic behind shitty wagons. By focusing on defending himself, NA will look scummy and ST knows it. So why would ST advise NA to focus on peeling off his own wagon? So NA looks scummy and is lynched while ST can laugh on the sidelines saying "told you he was town".

You're bad at defending yourself, which is why you look scummy.

--

I'm townreading Phantom of the Opera, but I'm being wary, because his posts are possible to fake from an expert.

Shady's a top-tier townread. No questions.

--

Will make a larger post on why Shiba is town (Very very very confident he is) and why people needing to stop vote there in the next few hours. Got a few people I want to ISO as well and hoping that Gwen pops in sometime today so I can clear up my read there.

Would love to see this, out of curiosity.

Deadle, please tell me you haven't fallen prey to the cult of Dipsy.

I've fallen prey to the cult of Dipsy. I'm townreading most of his posts, because they look like genuine scumhunting, even though their appearance aren't very polished.


--

Still townreading NA. Most people are scumreading for valid reasons, but given his identity, it is mostly playstyle clash.

More later. Ask questions if need elaboration.

[Quilford]

• Votecount 1.13
  
  
  Dimitri Davidoff (6)— Greatvalue, The Phantom of the Opera, Natural Aristocracy, Quailford LOL, Megafan1998, Concorde
  Quailford LOL (4)— Dimitri Davidoff, Shiba Tatsuya, Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy, Gumby
  Natural Aristocracy (3)— Shady, You are dead to me, Spider Gwen
  CellPhone (1)— the_soothsayer
  
  
  Not Voting
  (1)— CellPhone
  
  It takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  > Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-10-24 08:08:29). <

[Concorde]

Vote:Dmitri

Go ST. Lurk off that wagon like a champ.

Let's play a game. Color the wagons.

• Votecount 1.12
  
  
  
  Dimitri Davidoff (6)— Greatvalue,
  The Phantom of the Opera, Natural Aristocracy, Quailford LOL, Meganfan1998
  
  
  Quailford LOL (4)
  —
  Dimitri Davidoff, Shiba Tatsuya,
  Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy, Gumby
  
  
  Natural Aristocracy (3)—
  Shady,
  You are dead to me,
  Spider Gw
  en
  
  
  CellPhone (1)— the_soothsayer
  
  

  Not Voting

  (1)— CellPhone
  
  
  It takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-10-24 08:08:29).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Prodding CellPhone and Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy. Let's pick it up a bit please.

How far off am I? Do your own.

who does this without flips

Every readwall does. This just combines the readwall with a visual representation of the game. Totally epic.

[Gumby]

For the record, this is why methinks Quailford his scummy; his read on me.

But seriously that whole RQS thing was atrocious. RQS questions aren't that bad on their own, but what Shiba did was not good. It's an easy thing for scum to set up - ask RQS questions, you

know

that someone is going to not answer them, so you accuse them of "stifling discussion" and vote. Voila.

YAY another townie LOL!

"he's town"

Gumby can go into the scumpile.

Man, solid reads after one post, this guy must know his shit /s

Sucks getting caught after one post.

Did you read what I wrote about Shiba after the post you quoted?

Good catch actually but he is also dropping town tells.

"he's town because town tells"

I don't see any towntells from Gumby yet. His reaction to me looked pretty scummy actually.

Fair enough, the jury is still out from my perspective.

"hmm, maybe scum actually idk"

Gumby, can you paraphrase the wording in your role PM?

I'ma just PM the mod with my planned wording for this to be safe, I can be pretty bad at paraphrasing

and can also be pretty paranoid about this stuff

. I'll reply upon its confirmation.

Aw, c'mon, you're just stalling. Just paraphrase! Use synonyms and change the punctuation and stuff.

Your belated miller announcement is noted with as UNFAVORABLE.

Alright, I'll take the risk and just say it. I'd rather be accusing of "stalling" than modkilled but ya know.

Upon inspection from Cops aligned with the Town, they get a result of "is Mafia".

Yes, it specifies that as being the returned result.
Yes, it specifies Town Cops, and that results given to other roles are genuine.

As for the belatedness of the claim, I was considering just trying to play obvtown and hoping I don't get inspected (because claiming Miller will result in a policy lynch down the line) but I decided that I fucked that up so claiming was the best option.

I'm not very good at playing obvtown unless circumstances allow it.

OMG the contradictions! LOL

VOTE: Gumby

"OMG SCUM VOTE"

This is a really, really artificial development. To me this reads like he started off with a townread, but then realised others were less certain of my alignment. As a result, he decided to start faking his way into a scumread on me. He starts off "he's town" because of vague, undescribed towntells, slowly develops into "actually maybe scum" purely because YADTM said I looked scummy, and then uses my claim as an excuse to scumread me. He was probably expecting a wagon to build on me. However, after this happened, he realised that, actually, others agreed I was townie, so he basically had to bullshit scumreading me to avoid appearing flipfloppy, hence the dodgy posts regarding me afterwards when questioned.

[Concorde]

Time is a commodity. I'm going to make quick replies to pertinent issues.

415 Crying "not in context" when I catch precisely what you are doing. That doesn't make me "dumb" but just reinforces my scumread on you.

[snip]

You did not catch anything. It's like digging a hole in your backyard and shouting that you've found gold, when it's only a yellow Lego brick the previous owner left behind. I'm not sure if you're deliberately being obtuse or are naturally so. The former is scummy, while the latter makes you a VI.

Being on the defensive constantly is something many people read as scummy.

Correct.

I am fully prepared to handle such a scenario.

This post is directly in contradiction to ST stating that NA should focus on "absolving" the wagon on himself rather than attacking the logic behind shitty wagons. By focusing on defending himself, NA will look scummy and ST knows it. So why would ST advise NA to focus on peeling off his own wagon? So NA looks scummy and is lynched while ST can laugh on the sidelines saying "told you he was town".

You're bad at defending yourself, which is why you look scummy.

--

I'm townreading Phantom of the Opera, but I'm being wary, because his posts are possible to fake from an expert.

Shady's a top-tier townread. No questions.

--

Will make a larger post on why Shiba is town (Very very very confident he is) and why people needing to stop vote there in the next few hours. Got a few people I want to ISO as well and hoping that Gwen pops in sometime today so I can clear up my read there.

Would love to see this, out of curiosity.

Deadle, please tell me you haven't fallen prey to the cult of Dipsy.

I've fallen prey to the cult of Dipsy. I'm townreading most of his posts, because they look like genuine scumhunting, even though their appearance aren't very polished.


--

Still townreading NA. Most people are scumreading for valid reasons, but given his identity, it is mostly playstyle clash.

More later. Ask questions if need elaboration.

Tldr:

ST: I'm town so Concorde is scum or VI.

ST: I contradicted myself but you suck.

ST: I am going to throw another townreads on town that I can't or won't defend and be weasely.

ST: Oh that Shady guy tunneling town is town.

[Greatvalue]

Checking in. I plan on catching up on what I've missed tomorrow night after [insert one of work or school here]. Bye...

[Shady]

this game is trash

[the_soothsayer]

Would love to see this, out of curiosity.

Have this afternoon of so will get to it then when I do the ISOs too, really hoping to see lots more content by then.

this game is trash

Agree, less than half the players are actually playing while others are intentionally ignoring a lot directed at them. Alt mechanic kind of fucks it up since people can be entirely useless and just cover it up by not revealing who they are post game.

[Natural Aristocracy]

You get out what you put in.
Don't be such a louse.

[Shady]

well i put in getting you lynched for being obvious-ass scum and the leading wagon is on a guy who is functionally AFK, so

Agree, less than half the players are actually playing while others are intentionally ignoring a lot directed at them. Alt mechanic kind of fucks it up since people can be entirely useless and just cover it up by not revealing who they are post game.

didnt expect to see you agree w/ me but anyway this feels like it needs a kick in the pants

[CellPhone]

I have been prodded. I have been skimming but I need to do another full read.

There's so much anger here.

[Shady]

Well, I'm glad that Shady's case has literally no merits to it because he keeps coming to worthless conclusions thanks to his confbias.
Saying useless mudslingy-BS like "He kept that piss-weak vote on dimitri instead of moving it around is because he was too afraid to fake anything resembling real suspicion" is exactly representative of the mindset Shady has going into reading me. Rather than considering why I stuck to that wagon, or why I did not join other wagons, he comes to a conclusion that's removed from the reality of the game, not even truly scummy, but he pounds it in as scum-oriented anyway.

Think for a damn second, Shady. At this point, sadly, even that seems beyond you. Your frustration and incorrect assumptions amuse me, though.
Stay forever basic.

I'm not entirely sure why Gwen is voting me, either, but I'm sure it's for 'great' reasons, too.

this is some smug-ass deny & subvert bullshit

looks like i have to go back for round 3

[Shady]

I know your alt too.

you literally just tried to claim "alt hunting" was a scumtell

misrep leaves out important part where concorde said alt hunting was scummy _if done before alignment hunting_

p confused about concorde now

i readily admitted i was mistaken about what they meant by this, for the record

[the_soothsayer]

Home now. Not going to do a huge reads list all at one go, will put up my reads sections at a time.

Still find Gumbys claim and manner of doing so infinitely more likely to come from town than scum - the thought process of not wanting to claim the role at all because of the downsides of it and then having to fall back on it is how I've seen people play miller or state they'd want to play miller multiple times in the past and follows a natural town thought process whereas only see scum outright claim it to begin with or once guiltied. Do like his Quailford scum read explanation in Post 587. Want him to actually start contributing more though and I want him to answer my questions in Post 558.

Dislike Shadys whole "Guilty" reaction test (ie. Post 362) but don't think it's an alignment indicator at all. Really like Shadys comments on Concordes posts (ie. Post 358, Post 376 and especially find Post 474 town) since it mirrors a lot with the issues I have with his posts as well. Also follow and agree with a lot of his reasoning behind his elaborated NA scum read in Post 511, Post 531 an Post 532 and comes across as he genuinely believes it too. It also helps that I know for an absolute fact who Shady is being someone that I'd like to think I can read decently well and that his play here fits his town meta significantly more than his scum one.

Liked Megafans initial catch up post (ie. Post 153) given the change from considering Shiba being scum to actually liking his reads and moving him to town, came across as genuine scumhunting, as does his catch up thoughts on NA in Post 313 and Post 315. Dislike his flip of read after that though (ie. Post 324, Post 331, him questioning and voting Shiba due to him not having a read on himself while having one on CellPhone is an awful reason to vote. Also dislike the stance on Quailford in Post 354 as well as the inability to explain it when questioned in Post 500. My town read on him is dead, want those that still town read him to explain it.

Still think there's a good chance CellPhone is scum, his Post 145 and Post 594 show that he's been following the thread but avoiding popping in to actually state any reads or content and the constant promised catch ups (ie. Post 412, Post 438 and Post 594) with no follow through fit with scum that's trying to lurk through the day.

Will update this as I go through:

Town (S->W):

Gumby, Shady

Null:

Megfan

Scum (S->W):

CellPhone

[the_soothsayer]

Don't make much from Greatvalues reaction towards the RQS suggestion, still think it's a null-tell but the fact that there's no content outside of it is problematic (Often see scum have a large amount of activity instantly when the game occurs when the discussion is theory related or RVS based and then vanish afterwards when it actually gets serious) and (Dead?) is right in that his Dimitri vote and reasoning in Post 36 isn't really a natural thought process at all.

Thoughts on Quailford haven't changed much at all, still take an issue with his stance on Shiba in Post 78 and don't like the Gumby vote in Post 146 even a little bit and find his interaction with Gumby in Post 333 to fit with how scum interact with their scum reads a lot more, still am worried that this is just a troll gimmick of him not taking this game remotely seriously as either alignment. Really want those that have a town read on him to explain what I'm missing.

Still find Deads treament and explanation (ie. Post 74) behind the GV vote as town, on a reread I don't think Dead would post Post 89 as scum either. Find the questioning of the town read on herself in Post 192 town given that she's spot on with the logic there. Didn't like her focus when returning to the thread (Post 485 / Post 486) but the big case on GV in Post 560 is actually decent. Really want to see the rest of her catch up to solidify this read.

Concordes initial change of mind on Shiba still reads as town regardless of his change of heart since then. Still massively dislike the majority of his posts and find a lot of his logic and reasoning dreadful but a lot of it comes across as he genuinely believes what he's posting and his frustration in Post 394, Post 396 shows as much. Also regardless of how bad the wagon analysis attempts in Post 563 is I don't see scum doing that this early in the game at all. So yeah, I'm actually significantly more confident he's town now then I was when I went into that. Still want him to get around to answering my Post 565 though.

Updated:

Town (S->W):

Gumby, Shady, Concorde, [Gap], Dead

Null:

Megfan, Quailford

Scum (S->W):

CellPhone, Great

[Quilford]

Bump.