Mini 1727: Legends of the Hidden Temple II - Game Over!

[Suzune]

I'm super excited for this~

p-edit, haha makes me want to make on for my team~

[Suzune]

Doesn't voting not work that way anyway? At least in this game.

[Suzune]

I can appreciate that.

[Suzune]

My skill says, cute things only

[Suzune]

What did I already do to deserve such hatred ?

[Suzune]

Midnight sun.

Hey, now no hard feelings. One day enemies, the next day allies?

[Suzune]

Firebringer are you town?

Maybe?

I swear you are a trickster

[Suzune]

Since I see no obvious connection yet in those names, I am uncertain what you want me to guess.

[Suzune]

I always assume my partner is scum.

However, I have not seen enough of them yet to make a fair reading. Scum or not, I need to trust them long enough to figure out everyone else. You cross your partner last.

[Suzune]

Nah, running joke more or less. Just seems to work that way.

Don't get my wrong, I believe in camaraderie.

[Suzune]

Why vote Vyse. They have not even posted yet?

[Suzune]

No buddy of mine that's for sure. But my vote is not up for sale.

However, Vedith might be a good choice for today. I'm not one to rush vote. I would rather think.

[Suzune]

You act like I voted. No need to be so defensive about it.

I tend to like Sala a lot every early game and I enjoy Vyse more late games. Just a preference.

[Suzune]

I'm still not a a bookitty alt. Wish everyone would stop thinking that.

It just seems to be your hobby. I don't take it personally.

[Suzune]

I remember you saying before you missed her, however I played in the same game as bookitty, therefore I cannot be her alt. Personally, I would rather you see me for me. However, I have been called worst things.

[Suzune]

I always assume my partner is scum.

However, I have not seen enough of them yet to make a fair reading. Scum or not, I need to trust them long enough to figure out everyone else. You cross your partner last.

~
No love suzune I am heartbroken </3

Kaito I know you. You will show your hand when the time comes. I can wait~
You know my history with partner games

[Suzune]

I remember you saying before you missed her, however I played in the same game as bookitty, therefore I cannot be her alt. Personally, I would rather you see me for me. However, I have been called worst things.

Consider it a compliment. Shes a really good scumhunter, as are you.

I didnt even know you were in McNinja. Lol.

And your scumgame is decent too

Thank you for the compliment~

[Suzune]

Bulbazak is that you?

Nah, it's only Kaito.

[Suzune]

In my opinion Shiro, Firebringer plays fast and loose. I think there is a possibility he would do it to come off as a town read. As I explained in another game, people rarely double think early reads so getting ahead early is the goal of any mafia.

[Suzune]

In my opinion Shiro, Firebringer plays fast and loose. I think there is a possibility he would do it to come off as a town read. As I explained in another game, people rarely double think early reads so getting ahead early is the goal of any mafia.

I just don't understand most reads, maybe because I see everything having both a townie and scummy reason.

All actions have an intended reaction. The trick is seeing what causes the most ripples. Remembering it and drawing on it when you need it.

[Suzune]

First one on me.

Can we have Whisky?

Anyway, I think the other team should post before we rush to judgment. Fire got the ball rolling and for that I am thankful, however at the same time we must consider the other team and wait for them before voting. That is my opinion on the matter.

[Suzune]

I will not lie, that is a good point.

That's something a person who lies alot would say, because if not everyone would just assume you tell the truth since they know you. So the need to tell people you will not means you are capable of lieing..

well the mafia is More inclined to tell the truth. It makes it easier to keep your case clean. So for me personally, this is more of a scummy comment.

[Suzune]

I'm at work but I will post on this when I get home. Is there any particular reason that Sala needs Titus's opinion on everything?

[Suzune]

Catch Up post~ Goodness guys post a few more posts while I'm at work...

Also shiro is trying to talk me into firebringer, making me want to vote Vedith some more

I'm inclined to agree with your partner then. Although mine was less certain it was a scummy thing that I was looking at.

Why is fire scum?

Because he took an easy opening play. Doubled back on his reason for starting the game. Was arrogant about his choice and his vote. Then said he would die, or something like "if you don't trust me lynch me" this kind of gambit suggest that we shouldn't because he is willing to go down for it. However, this is less a townie tactic and more a mafia tactic. On the sliding scale of scumminess he is coming up on the scummy side.

2. Why was FB not scummy for initiating the challenge?

Challenging itself is not inherently indicative of anything. If I had a good lead on someone I thought was scum I would challenge too. However, that does not apply to this situation. By targeting a group that had not posted yet he was not acting on an early read he was going on gut or looking to gain higher ground. That is my read on the situation.

I'm voting Vedith because I think he's scummier. I don't really care if you get it or not.

This is such a not town attitude. The town is a team. If you want someone lynched for being scummy you should explain it. A well made case should be able to sway the town. Although he slightly amended it here

Convincing people to hop on a wagon and have everyone focus on one player I'm not sure about is incredibly anti-town;

[Suzune]

If A always scumreads B, when they are both town. It's going to take forcing to change that.

If A always scumreads B and B aways flips town , there comes a time where A will just assume scumreading him means he is town.

And here inlies the reason that I never rely on meta.

Okay, I am going to stick with my look at the gameboard for right now. Someone on the Orange Iguanas is scum though. I understand that from reading it. For now I will go with Firebringer as my vote. However, if for minute I think something else might be going on I am going to chase it.

VOTE: Firebringer

[Suzune]

You know nothing Suzune. NOTHING!

I was Jon Snow once in a game. Thanks for reminding me~

It is easy. Being the first one to call has some risks, but it is not necessarily a mafia thing to do. I would assume the townies who are good are early game reads would make the first jump. However, you told me last game we were together when I was pushing you for reads that, you make your reads slow. So I know that does not apply to you, therefore, I have to assume you were challenging from a position of gain. The only way you could do that is if you were mafia.

Also since it is not a directly mafia play to challenge someone you you could roll it off as lighthearted. However, I am just not sensing that.

[Suzune]

If the game is really active it is hard to post it breaks because there is so much to read. But sometimes, you need to add something...

[Suzune]

I will be away tomorrow. I have company over. I will try to check in but no promises

[Suzune]

I will be back in about an hour post then. Sorry for the delay

[Suzune]

As stated already. Why would a scum challenge another team with scum in? That would give it more or less a 50% chance of a town lynch.
My bet is, if FB is scum then both Molla and Vyse are town.

This is a fair point. A very fair point. I see no reason for scum to challenge another scum team. Unless they were both really confident of their manipulation skills.

[Suzune]

At this point so far, I like Vyse for Town. This looks like his town game to me using his usual reasoning, I mean he has not talked about Buzzwords yet, but other then that I think his seasons are still good.

At the vote count, I believe that both Firebringer and Vedith are voting Vyse for protection.

However, I find it rare that one no mafia team, challenged another no mafia team. I think that Vedith is probably on the right track.

[Suzune]

Well I am trying to think about what I would do in the situation.

-Yes Titus, I do think Vyse is town. That has nothing to do with Vedith being on the right track.

-Actually, as I was playing something else right now and it came to me. If I was mafia, I would take advantage of my partners weirdness. Therefore, perhaps the mafia here is Vedith. Firebringer is a great choice to make the challenge because he will debate and back his teammate. Therefore, since Vedith is less talkative it becomes more of a cover. This sugests to me that perhaps Vedith is the actual mafia here.

UNVOTE: [
VOTE: Vedith
Please keep in mind that this puts him at L-1

[Suzune]

Since I don't see it anywhere, I am curious Vedith what do you think of your partner. Do you trust his actions and find them town motivated?

If we are correct in assuming that all four members in this lynch pool are indeed town. Then that greatly decreases the amount of people we need to suspect. That means that majority of remaining pairs have a townie and we should begin to look inside and check our partners for scumminess. Although, my gut says there is a mafia in this set of four. I just cannot seem to pinpoint who it is. So much attention is being drawn to Firebringer that I suspect he is not mafia.

Vyse's logic makes sense to me and I get a townie feeling from him.

So that brings it down to Vedith and BBmolla.

[Suzune]

You have some passionate feelings there Molla. I will never understand why people think they have the game figured out so early into the game. One would think if you have the answer you would work harder to persuade the rest of us to believe you.

[Suzune]

Okay i have read over the ISO's of all of the players who are currently up for elimination. Honestly, I think that Fire is probably town. I will probably never let that last bit of kindling die though because I have a small suspicion. Vyse is town. The leaves me with Vedith and Molla. Despite of lack of opinion on Molla to this date, I am not ready yet for them to take the lynch. I get a strange sort of townie feeling from them and I have have to agree with their read on Titus as scum because I am beginning to sense that myself. Unfortunately for Vedith, that means he is the choice of the day. None of his posts exactly scream scum to me but I still think that he is the best choice out of the lot of them. He does not active scum hunting and rather spends all of his posts complaining that his partner is in trouble or about people tunneling. His partner can fight his own battles, no need to defend him.

[Suzune]

Apathy, scum not wanting to push anything or be at the end of a wagon, scum want the focus outside the lynchers to buddy them BC they will get a mislynch so there's zero need to push scum here.

I have to admit that despite being not scum I am beginning to feel apathetic about the vote. Everyone seems town and the only person I would consider lynching is Vedith, just because he has the least amount of town points in my book. So the mafia might not need to make a push if they can drift and wait for the excitement among the townies to burn out.

[Suzune]

If the hood is all town and FB is town, turbo lynch Kaito immediately.

So if the person that gets lynched flips town that makes me auto scum if I'm reading this statement correctly?

I see no reason why it would make you auto scum. There are plenty of interesting people in this game.

[Suzune]

Daily reminder going into D2 that optimal play is for no one to challenge anyone until we have a majority agreement on who should be killed

I think this is the best plan moving forward. We should do the elimination first and just use the vote to end it. Instead of sitting on a vote no one wants.

[Suzune]

I also think it was clever to have Firebringer issue the challenge. All the focus would fall on Fire and therefore Vedith would fall out of the limelight.

[Suzune]

Ah, that was one of my major pushing points on my vote for Vedith was the shadow of the limelight. Oh well, it was a good thought.

[Suzune]

I thought we were going to fight it out before we challenged again.

[Suzune]

I thought for some reason that Challenge Titus post of Metal Sonics would trigger a challenge...

[Suzune]

Sure, Shiro was pinging part of me. I could not tell whether it was the part of me that plays scum or the part of me that plays town. Therefore, I was kind of confused and treating them like something interesting until I figured it out. So it did not click for me right away when you said you chose her, because I would have too.

[Suzune]

What I intended to comment on was the choice of Shiro. But never mind, clearly not thinking clearly.

[Suzune]

Yes Kaito a challenge was called our team versus metal sonics team.

[Suzune]

Goodness, so many missed posts while at work...

[Suzune]

Your vibes are wrong. I am just not as engaged as usual.

I don't know, I get strange vibes from you too. Somewhere they resonate inside of me. I am unsure yet if you are town or scum honestly. I think your writing facade is so neutral.

[Suzune]

We need to look at Salamence and sonics (particularly sally) interactions with vedith. I find it odd that sally would hard push vedith for the whole time he was here, even attempting to bully shiro into voting him. Frankly idk how to interpret that and I'm hoping someone smarter than me can, atm I feel it could have been a bad bus/distancing attempt

I have noticed in the past that Sala gets an early read on someone and chases it for a long time until someone can prove otherwise. Therefore, I do not personally find his push strange since he did it to me last game we were in. It did give us a focus though, someplace for us to start.

[Suzune]

I am pretty sure I was on the Kaito wagon wasn't I ?

I'm sure you did. I saw the vote this afternoon before I left for work

[Suzune]

I think it is a good plan

Titus that is Brain and Davsto

[Suzune]

Prolapsed Brain has almost nothing in the way of posts either.

[Suzune]

Okay, you can do that. I'm not syncing well with this game, just can't get into the flow. It should be fun.

[Suzune]

I know, I know. I can see that. I already harassed my partner all last night about how I thought he was mafia. So I know.

[Suzune]

I have never seen a perfect win before. So I would be fun to achieve. Do you think Brain will even come play? I want to poke him some, but I fear I am waiting for nothing.

[Suzune]

I thought it might be Titus. Kaito was being wishy washy about my feeling told me he did not know enough about Titus to make a read.

[Suzune]

I am usually a big fan of them too. I enjoy that they rely less on abilities and more on words.

Sounds like it was a fun game BBmolla

[Suzune]

Hm, Let's see.

I wished the Firebringer was scum, but commented on how I knew he could not be. He agreed with my assessment.

He wondered whether Sala was always that aggressive or it the Midnight Sun game was just crazy. He wanted to know what my game status was with Sala. Since Sala and I just came off a game together. He was also curious about Shiro and Sala and what I knew. Shiro x Sala I have no idea.

We spent a long time talking about what makes a player a trickster because I defined Firebringer as that.

He kept pressing me about who I thought was scummy, with was sort of a red flag for me. Then I started avoiding the private topic a bit. He said that Titus was too difficult to read and that I was only reading him because I knew his style.

He got frustrated with me for telling him I thought he was scum. Claimed I was using meta knowledge to make it. Although secretly I wanted to test his reaction. Words like "frustrated and annoyed" tipped me off. However, I believe you save your partner for last. So I pointed out that he was being both overly aggressive and defensive and that is why everyone thought he was scum. He claimed he was always like that.

That's the highlights.

[Suzune]

I'm going to dwell on whether that's made up or real for the next 2 days.

I am much too lazy to make something up.

[Suzune]

Okay, perhaps that is not true. If I really needed to I would make it up.

Although it is not made up this time. I feel like if I was making it up. the part about the trickster probably would not have made the final cut.


p-edit: So don't wait for him at all. Just do it?

[Suzune]

At this point though, Metal Sonic could just pop in and hammer. Someone would need to unvote in order for your little conversation to happen.

[Suzune]

Better then waiting days for a replacement. Usually I would not hammer for something like this, however it might be justified today. Sorry Titus.

Vote: Brain

[Suzune]

Relax a little Titus. Look at it this way. With PB gone. Should that team get challenged again all the attention can be focused on Sonic. With one distraction out of the way, it will allow for no way for people to avoid your confrontation.

[Suzune]

Well, I'm waiting for the I told you so. From Titus..

p-edit then there were many expletives.

p-edit x10 Might as well hear your case on it Titus

[Suzune]

I am confirmed town

No one is confirmed town. There is no way to confirm it aside from dying.

[Suzune]

I'd love to hear why.

[Suzune]

Hm, this is an interesting reaction from Metal Sonic.

[Suzune]

It looks like a good match up to me.

[Suzune]

Holy pages...okay. I will write a catch up post~

[Suzune]

Nevermind there was only one...

I think the train is building to fast for metal sonic to be scum. I don't understand why people never defend themselves.

[Suzune]

@Suzune, The wagons have been fast for days, why is Sonic's special?

It's not really. I just feel like after the last one that perhaps holding back a little might do us a bit of good, since Metal Sonic did not say anything helpful before leaving.

[Suzune]

Do not misunderstand, I am not against the lynch or anything. I just wonder if we should poke Sonic a little more.

[Suzune]

I want to see what happens because I have played with Metal Sonic before and I have played with Sala whom he replaced. I do not think that Sala was out of his usual element and I worry that merely the sharp contrast of Metal Sonic with the personality of Sala is creating the instant read. Yesterday you were so determined that he had to answer your questions and today you act like it is no big deal. That is something that interests me right away Titus.

Who am I thinking is scum? Tough, I tend not to read people very well. Rather I read the flow of the game and the impact that the posts make in it. My first feelings is that Shiro is scum. I have been pondering it for a while and it is the only read of mine that Kaito did not comment on. Vyse is being interesting too so I wonder about his alignment as well.

[Suzune]

Okay, two mislynches in two days. I really think we should not rush the next one.

[Suzune]

Well I am here if you want to talk Titus

[Suzune]

Oh joy, a read wall.

Davsto- Strikes me as town. Compares and looks at information. I would say he is a solid town. If you want me to go all parinoia on it. I would say that if there is a strong lurking mafia, it is probably him. I have seen any missteps in his game so far. People on mafiascum rarely double think after they have formed an opinion on someone so this is the perfect hand for a mafia to be holding.

Elbirn- His behavior and manner make me think he is probably town. Although I have seen him as mafia and therefore, I am a little less certain. However, he has not really been on my radar so I have nothing super interesting to say about him.

Firebringer- Regretfully I believe that Firebringer is town. I would love for him to be mafia because of his stunts and trickery. However, that is why I explained to Kaito that he is a trickster. So as much as I would love to lynch him for mafia, the chances are so small it would be a waste of the shot.

Molla- Is probably town. I felt like her frustration and her rant were genuine in nature. Also a lot of the posts are reactionary and quick which is a stunt that is not easily done as mafia because of the potential for missteps. A mafia usually wants a perfect game, one with a slick bit of polish on it, and Molla is all over the place. Which make me suspect that she is probably town.

Shiro- Uncertain. This one is very hard to explain. I know what my game is like because people have told me. I know what kinds of tricks I like to try. About halfway through the first day Shiro resonated with me. I thought, we have a good chemistry or a similar flow. Posts like this post 204 make me think she is town. As weird as it sounds, when I reread her history I get a lot of well Sala thought this or that. I am not getting a lot of what Shiro feels about the game and that is messing up my ability to read her.

Titus- I am beginning to wonder if you are the mafia. I have been wondering for a while. I mentioned it in the private topic with Kaito that I thought you were off your game or were looking at it weird. I did not see the cold calculation I expected of you. You need to constantly dig at Sala was weird and then you carried it over into metal Sonic. However, you suprised me by just dropping everything you had been pushing for two days. you wanted Sonic to answer you, you were going to hold out for Sonic, then just nothing. Complete one eighty. He is done talking. Seems odd to me.

VysePresident- Is a leaning scum for me. I usually am interested in the way he plays and the arguments that he presents. He is usually very discriptive and focused. Now either he does not enjoy this game or he is playing a different side. I have never seen Vyse as mafia before, but this does not look like his town game. The fact that he mentions he has suspicions but never tells us why seems odd to me to. In a game where making the case is half the battles since everyone is speed lynchers, one would think he would put some effort into those reads.

[Suzune]

Well I have to edit previous statment. She only voted Vedith, not Kaito.

I guess all of that is not as good of argument in retrospect.
Still seems like she is trying to gain townie points by saying for us to be cautious.

Do not feel bad. I want you to be mafia too. But alas, neither of us are.

[Suzune]

I could tell you now, if you were dying of curiosity.

[Suzune]

It was one of your major motivations. I mean you hardly tried to get the answer to your questions. Even Shiro said she would not hammer until Metal Sonic talked. I just find it odd.

[Suzune]

So you want to have a mock challenge Titus?

[Suzune]

We should lynxh Suzune first

I never get lynched expect when I deserve it, except for that one time I was the town witchdoctor...but I mean what a terrible role to have to claim. So I would really rather not. However, that is just my general feelings about it.

[Suzune]

Firebringer, I described a trickster as one who is tricky and can deceive others. Someone who pretends to be doing one thing in words and actions, but is really plotting something else. Someone whose agenda is not known well or easily seen by others. Kaito asked if I could give an example of something like that, and I sort of struggled to come up with one before deciding on Loki.

[Suzune]

I'll tell you again that I am town. I posted my reads yesterday. So perhaps they will of some use to you when I die.

[Suzune]

God so many people agreeing to one plan always make me so god damn paranoid and nervous.

STOP ALL AGREEING

YOU ARE FREAKING ME OUT!!!!

Somewhere a scum is telling the town what shy want to hear. It is the most witty and dangerous of tactics because they do not have to do anything but suggest and the town will jump. Actually from a strange perspective it is kind of annoying. Everyone has kid of stopped talking and instead is just pushing on lynch train and then another.

[Suzune]

Or tell you to stop and think and work through this. However, I am beginning to think no one reads what I write anyway because they are focused on the win. What happened in that five player is destined to happen again. I will come back and check on you later.

[Suzune]

I guess I cooouuuld have waited a bit more before the challenge but I had the sudden inspiration to make it kinda dramatic you know? Put this unexpected twist.

I was like between Suzu and Dav.(Because extra drama of last people in the team)

With Dav I would have been all like Shiro approaches teh Pun master and had all like dialogue for Dav being like HAH Most people townread me over you this is suicide kind of deal? But then I realised I am also one of those people that mostly kind of townread Dav sooooo

It was either suzu or VP

And Suzu's was more dramatic ^_^

personally I think waiting and thinking about the game situation would have been dramatic. Although you are my unknown of all people.

[Suzune]

I feel like it is odd how you get a pass for posts like that. At first I thought it was cute and interesting but the longer the day goes on the more I realized that you were using them as a deflection. Posts about teams, character posts about the flavour, and talk about stories and speed lynches. It just strikes me as kind of odd there Shiro. I have been known to post I character before, however I hardly know what you think about the game. You always tell us what other people think.

[Suzune]

Okay then.

VOTE: Shiro

[Suzune]

Personally I think it is a distraction to take attention away from him and to make it look like she is move involved. But, that is just my two cents on the matter.

[Suzune]

UNVOTE:

[Suzune]

I do not see why need to be the ones to hammer, but I can unvote for the time being.

[Suzune]

We do not need to per say. But it would make this more fun and interesting.

Oh goodness, fun and interesting. Well, I not sure I am looking for interesting in my day to day mafia game.

See I predicted I would say that and then everyone would say something about blabla wifom if they're partners it's the perfect play because it clears whoever survives and then they'll win

No someone should have said that, just to say it because although it would be so unlikely everyone is on the same page so much here that it is eerie.

Anyone knows how Kaito distribuyte his buddies in his reads?

Kaito never hesitates to bus. He plays like his buddies are not aligned to him. When I confronted him in the private topic about being mafia, he said it was ridiculous. That clearly the other scum would bus another scum because he would do it in a heartbeat.

I also don't like Dave's posts today. He's using a mechanical approach that can be co-opted by scum (set a lynch order for every lynch). If a player is stronger now, but would have trouble keeping up the facade, a lynch order would help them greatly.

Second, the whole just murder everyone to reach the townbloc is stupid. Doubly so if it's get to the townbloc and then murder Titus. It's nothing but throwing shade in my direction. It wouldn't even work possibly. There's 4 in the townbloc. Lylo can be reached at 5 players.

I think that Titus has made a good point. If the mafia can convince the town to vote the people outside of the "town block (which is stupid who came up with this nonsense), then they have absolute control over the votes of the game. They can keep pushing that the envelope and then anyone who goes against it will look anti-town thus allowing for more townies to die. I mean, it is a pretty good plan.

[Suzune]

Because if he was scum he pretty much dooms himself to death and leaves everything to his partner

If one could create a firm platform for their partner to stand on to give them the edge in the game. Why would they not doom themselves?

Do you have any reason to suspect that Molla and El could be scum?

If i had to choose a sleeper agent, I would choose El.

But isn't fun and interesting interactions why we play the game :O

I guess I would say. I play for the challenge. The puzzle is my favorite part. Although if I could really get into and play as the character in a theme game then yes, that would be enjoyable.

[Suzune]

yeh you're paranoid, you're paranoid that people will follow my order and not doubt me and thus you lose.

Yeah, I'm afraid of that too. I am afraid that people would rather speed lynch then talk. I am afraid that the mafia is hidden on those "town block" people. I think it is worth considering at the very least. Sweeping plans rarely hinder the efforts of the mafia.

[Suzune]

If I were scum, the moment I flip it leaves everything down to WIFOM. That's about as solid a platform as jelly in a blender.

If you were to flip your partner would be concealed though. If you assume for a minute that they are not Vyse. Then your partner would be safe to lead the lynch of Vyse. Dismantle your broken lynch system and allow the townies to use their paranoia to kill each other. You just have to run the numbers harder.

[Suzune]

I even made certain to say I challenge Suzu instead of the team based on one of the mods comments >.<

I failed

I went back to look at your story. You put I Shiro of the Silver Snakes challenge Suzu of the Green Monkeys. So thus you challenged Silver Snakes vs Green Monkeys. Had you just put Suzu and Shiro I am uncertain that it would have triggered

[Suzune]

@Shiro, with that reads list, what were you hoping to get out of the reaction test? Why not fake challenge Vyse?

Because it was not interesting...

[Suzune]

I stand corrected. It was not because it was interesting but because it was dramatic.

I guess I cooouuuld have waited a bit more before the challenge but I had the sudden inspiration to make it kinda dramatic you know? Put this unexpected twist.

I was like between Suzu and Dav.(Because extra drama of last people in the team)

With Dav I would have been all like Shiro approaches teh Pun master and had all like dialogue for Dav being like HAH Most people townread me over you this is suicide kind of deal? But then I realised I am also one of those people that mostly kind of townread Dav sooooo

It was either suzu or VP

And Suzu's was more dramatic ^_^

[Suzune]

I want Shiro's response to that damn it.

How come when I try to sort Shiro people keep interrupting?

Simply because you asked a question she already answered, so we knew the answer.

[Suzune]

You do realize that I am town, right Molla?

[Suzune]

I'm tired of waiting. VOTE: Shiro

[Suzune]

I'm tired of waiting. VOTE: Shiro

Do you think Shiro is scum? Or survival?

A little f both. First I know that I am not scum, so I don't want to die. She is also hard for me to read because I feel like she posts other people's opinions and I do not get to hear what she says a lot. With the exception of her reads list it has been a lot of sala said of the group thinks kind of things.

[Suzune]

I swear no one reads...

I do not see why need to be the ones to hammer, but I can unvote for the time being.

We do not need to per say. But it would make this more fun and interesting.

[Suzune]

I would not be surprised if at least one pair was both mafia. To take a page from Shiro's book. It adds to the drama. If they were all lone pairs then we would be lulled into a sense of security with one from each pair being left. So logically, there must be a full pair of scum.

[Suzune]

I hear what you are saying. I just wanted to open the door to the possibility.

[Suzune]

For some reason it seemed to me, that we were not even considering that. I apologise if I misread someone's message.

Davsto you're gonna love this one
I don't think two scum would have rolled on the same team

I just did not want us to get tripped up or locked in a mindset.

[Suzune]

Although for the humorous of gambler's fallacy. I went through a period of time where I was mafia 12 times in a row. Then next game was a lovers game and I was not mafia. I said "after my current streak of being mafia, I think we should lynch me because if I am not mafia my partner is. It is like having too chances to keep the streak going." So they lynched me and took out the remaining mafia. So sometimes you have to wonder.

[Suzune]

Haha, I know I know. Odds, math, numbers, I got it~

[Suzune]

Okay, I'm here. Let me catch up on this

[Suzune]

Okay well I said before if there is one in your "town block" that is probably mafia it is Elbin. I reread Elbin and Vyse's ISO. One thing is for sure, in my opinion, they are on different teams. The flow between the two of them is so tonally different. Vyse's posts seems so high stress, so much need to type fast and get points out that he ends up defending himself oddly or simily reiterates that he is town over and over. On the other hand we have Elbin with his smooth as glass posts.

To be fair Titus he did offer this as the counter offer to the lynch, so it did not come out of no where.

[Suzune]

How posts break the water affect the flow, when you are trying hard to spin something the flow of the game changes.

[Suzune]

How posts break the water affect the flow, when you are trying hard to spin something the flow of the game changes.

Huh? *scratches head*

Hard to explain I guess. Um, let me try again. When I am trying to deceive someone into believing something, I will try many different angles in order to see what seems most effective. When I am checking to see if someone is trying to deceive me, I look about it through a similar route. yeah....okay that was probably a worse description. I guess, I see the game the way I see the game.

[Suzune]

Anyone else wonder if Titus is scum, or is it just me?

[Suzune]

If Vyse is scum it comes only from his need to tell people that they are reading him wrong and his need to tell us how town he is all the time. At some point, if you are going to be town at least do towny things. Plus he was very swingy on the votes, voting on the train and later unvoting them for a silly reason.

However, I worry he is not scum, just rather not playing to his full potential.

[Suzune]

Or I guess, paranoia time, that we are choosing such easy lynch targets that they cannot possibly be scum.

[Suzune]

You know my stance on meta, there is no way I am going to read that to make a comparison.

This I dislike. I need you to stand in judgement of the case that is currently on you. I cannot stand that you vouch for yourself using outside evidence. Ah, drives me crazy. I am looking only at your current situation. To tell you the truth no I do not remember the McNinja game, I played so terribly and I allowed myself to get so worked up about the that tunnel on me. So yes, I would go on it later games to learn to overcome the panic that I associate with it. So I apologize but I do not recall.

however in this game. You vote Vedith when the train is not yet taken off in 413, then when there are there would be six people on the train you get off in order to think 565. Then you switch to Molla because of your inability to read them after looking over the meta from another game. Then you voted Kaito because you were Sheeping Molla, who you tried to get lynched on day one. Then unvoted because someone asked you to. However, you never got back on before the hammer. Then did not vote again until the metal sonic fiasco. However, you get a pass for that one because you previously expressed interest in that lynch. You are on and off again trains. You were not on any scum trains and only on the trains for the townies.

Actually your entire vote on Molla has been interesting to follow. Would never have noticed had I not been making that list about your votes.

[Suzune]

Well he unvotes Vedith to think. By unvoting he freed up a slot on Vedith train and it allowed for the growth of the second on against Molla. Typically dueling trains on day one means one is scum correct?

p-edit- I'm not dismissing you. I would just rather you use the data provided in this game to save yourself.

[Suzune]

Listen Vyse, I like you and your play style attracts me because it reminds me of the way the people who taught me to play, play. However, to me meta is really flexible. My game changes when I see someone who interests me and I want some of their style. It changes when I am playing as a character in a game I am familiar with because I will take on that characters style, it can be manipulated to trick people I play with a lot into a false sense of security, so I assume that everyone else plays like this, as this is how I learned to play. So I do not understand the reliance on meta, telling me to read something means you have hand selected what I should know about you. Therefore, you are feeding information that matches what you want me to understand, which clouds the evidence. That is why I will not check it to prove you alliance.

[Suzune]

I want to vote Vyse however, I am still curious. Decisions, decisions.

[Suzune]

Suzune, that's my biggest issue. Vyse might have hoping my tunnel would save Kaito. Then I would look bad if MS was town sparing him.

Probably closer to the truth. Makes more sense then the direction my mind was going in.

[Suzune]

Is that L-1 Firebringer?

[Suzune]

Okay, I have only played with Elbrin once before and I thought his game was flawless and the deception he ran as scum was smooth. So he is my biggest fear as a sleeper agent, the mafia that we do not expect.

Okay, what would I do it I was scum in his place.

Assuming partners without Vyse, meaning Vyse is town. Given this assumption, I know that Vyse is the easy target. Many people have expressed their desire to have him lynched. Since I counteroffered the chance of lynching him before the Shiro hammer, I would be in the clear to defend my claim that it was not uncalled for. With so many people leaning against Vyse, it would be easy to orchestrate a mislynch by reminding people of their read on him and sort of pushing it indirectly so that people would think it was their idea to lynch him. There is very little chance of it coming back to bite me if Vyse flips town because everyone was already against him and like the Brain flip, no one will point fingers at who is responsible. This keeps me safe within Dave's "town block". Therefore with few disadvantages I would push to get Vyse lynched. One more tile stacked against the townies is good. Assuming Titus is not mafia, Titus's devolution into paranoia is good for the mafia because it means you will begin to take things more personally and doubt your abilities giving you the upper hand. Assuming Titus is mafia, the devolution acts as a distraction to block the town from making solid judgement because Titus makes good points that shake the foundation.

Assuming I am scum with Vyse:
I would be gambling hard making this challenge. I would have to be confident in my abilities to mislay the town. The trick is to make them think that Vyse is too good an offer that way they will second guess the lynch. Coming off the situation with Metal Sonic, someone was bound to think it was too good an offer. Suzune will always take a step back if the train is moving too quickly or if something seems odd. Therefore, the mafia will need to lie low until the seeds of paranoia are spread. Afterwards, Vyse would have to sweep in and look town. This is the linchpin in the plan. By looking town it would give us the chance to say the town is pushing too quickly for a mislynch causing everyone to take a step back. Said hesitation opens the door for a potential mislynch. At this point I would instruct Vyse to begin pushing towards Molla because that was his early scum feeling. After Vyse makes his case, the mafia should sit on it for a minute before I have one of those not sure moments and begin to slowly yeild that Vyse might have a point. The town, since I am in the "town block" would begin to listen to me and may move in favor of a mislynch. This would open Vyse up to be in danger later but depending on the cases the townies make when choosing a side I could perhaps push the town in that direction.

The difference is the amount of people involved to make it work.

[Suzune]

I did not map the entire plan out, it is not my mafia team to run. Do you want to see both plans that far? I could push the perspective out but the tree will break into more possibilities the farther it travels from this point of time. If you want them, I can do so.

[Suzune]

Okay. Give me a few minutes to type it all up. I can push the time line of both situations a phase and a half forward running ideal numbers, however too muc forward then that, the mafia loses the ability to adapt so I would never plan farther. Results coming.

[Suzune]

Titus, I fail to see what can be gained from this. I have learned a lot mind you, but to what point. What do you hope to gain. You learn a tad about how I think but I am not actually Elbrin. 1,500 words for situation one. I don't even write that many when I am the serial killer trying to look down the line. Situation one is done, but I am tired and not sure if I want to run the other one.

[Suzune]

I'd say to ask suzune but she's lying about my scumgame being good for some unholy reason *stares at, growls*

I thought your scum game was good. *Shrug* just my opinion on the matter.

[Suzune]

Well to ally myself with Titus for a minute. With his two favorite people Elbrin and Vyse rallying against him, it looks more like it proves his point. It would be the mafia advancing towards

2.3 Titus is not my teammate and freaks out that I jumped her lynch pitches a case against me. While it would be very difficult it would not be within the odds of not happening. Given such a potential I will have to act in a way that makes Titus look bad. This will inspire the town to lynch titus. Since Titus is not my partner. I would be free to go on a get Vyse lynched the next day. Titus Lynch.

Advantages: Titus is a dangerous player in this game and his paranoia is easy to rattle. The further I am able to rattle you the less credible you become. Thus I can turn the tide of the game against you by blowing holes in your arguments. When your credibility is low enough I can have you lynched. If Vyse if my partner then this clears Vyse a little bit, especially if he chimes in and stands against Titus. Firebringer is a swing vote so I cannot promise to know how he will behave and if it is logical enough and credible enough Suzune will fall for it too because she already suspects titus. The disadvantage is the difficultly that potentially comes from pushing Titus or anyone when they are fighting hard for the town. Thus there are less certain odds, but with all things the higher the danger the better the chance of victory. With Titus out of the way, the game will fall pretty easily to the mafia because David will push to lynch those outside the town block. From there keeping Vyse alive will be tough but from the standpoint of myself, I would have saftety. A mafia win but a precarious one.

One of those awesome situations I ran for Titus...

[Suzune]

I think we should all go to bed. Suzune has work soon. I think everyone needs a break to cool down and relax

[Suzune]

Titus it makes you happy. You have have the eight long term drives for situation one.

You do realise that this situation has more variables then we can count on.

The first and most obvious one being, I am not scum and therefore, these are my objective opinions on what I would do if i was scum in his place.

Therefore, the plan while it would share many similar facets with other players as mafia, would not be one hundred percent accurate. Given that Elbin is not scum or is scum and taking a back seat to the planning the plans would fall to the wayside. Likewise, if you are scum Titus then I am handing you the map to the game. So I do this very warily, however, regardless of the who is scum some plans will overlay.

Here are the numbers for situation one.

Spoiler:

For sake of easy reading. Plans start a 1, for each dividing point another number comes off of it. 1.1 and 1.2 would be a branch of the second step of the tree and from there on out.

Assuming that I am Elbrin and it is my mafia lead. Going with strategy one in which I am mafia and vyse is not. Starting point beginning of phase when I called the team.

1. Given this assumption, I know that Vyse is the easy target. Many people have expressed their desire to have him lynched. Since I counteroffered the chance of lynching him before the Shiro hammer, I would be in the clear to defend my claim that it was not uncalled for. Plan goes to step 2

2.1 With so many people leaning against Vyse, it would be easy to orchestrate a mislynch by reminding people of their read on him and sort of pushing it indirectly so that people would think it was their idea to lynch him. There is very little chance of it coming back to bite me if Vyse flips town because everyone was already against him and like the Brain flip, no one will point fingers at who is responsible. This keeps me safe within Dave's "town block". Therefore with few disadvantages I would push to get Vyse lynched. Vyse Lynch

Advantages and Disadvantages: Moving from here Elbrin would be safe to try and lynch Suzune or David. David is safe because Titus is interested in this lynch. Unless David is my partner this would lead to another safe town lynch and the further dismay of the town. The town would be in such disarray at this point that it would my partner and I could easily win in lylo by being the most organized or disorganized. Advancing down this route the chance of victory is much higher given that firebringer is hard to understand and not trustworthy, that Suzune seesm the game in a way that Titus does not understand, and that Titus is devolving. If Titus is my partner this gives us greater control over the flow of the game, we would probably be able to get David and Firebringer lynched by pulling up old posts. Thus the mafia would be able to win the game. The disadvantage to this plan is that it relies on the town to become panicked but given the current motivations of the town that is not hard to imagine.

2.2 With so many people against Vyse, it is possible that the town would take a back seat to lynching him. Worrying about the potential for a mislynch and will stall for many days. Given this situation it is in my best interest to lie low for a little while and only appear to stir the pot. This will make me look like I am active and it my reappearences to the topic are well planned enough I can gently sway the vote back to Vyse without so much as a problem. Vyse Lynch

Advantages of this situation. While not idea it is managable. It requires more time and more careful posting. The level of attention to detail that would be needed would be huge. Thus it is not a good fall back plan. However, in the event it gets to this situation and Vyse is not my partner it would be about biding my time. The town is suggestible right now thus is mean we are able to gain the upper hand earlier in the situation. This would lead to a favorable outcome and perhaps the chance to move my partner into a good light. Weakness of this plan is that it is a slow burn. The deception would need to run deeper to be successful that means the mafia would need to be cleaner in its plans and careful not to trip up on the amount of false posts that would need to be laid. Verdict: Manageable but tedious. (This is usually what I would do, I prefer a deeper deception)

2.3 Titus is not my teammate and freaks out that I jumped her lynch pitches a case against me. While it would be very difficult it would not be within the odds of not happening. Given such a potential I will have to act in a way that makes Titus look bad. This will inspire the town to lynch titus. Since Titus is not my partner. I would be free to go on a get Vyse lynched the next day. Titus Lynch.

Advantages: Titus is a dangerous player in this game and his paranoia is easy to rattle. The further I am able to rattle you the less credible you become. Thus I can turn the tide of the game against you by blowing holes in your arguments. When your credibility is low enough I can have you lynched. If Vyse if my partner then this clears Vyse a little bit, especially if he chimes in and stands against Titus. Firebringer is a swing vote so I cannot promise to know how he will behave and if it is logical enough and credible enough Suzune will fall for it too because she already suspects titus. The disadvantage is the difficultly that potentially comes from pushing Titus or anyone when they are fighting hard for the town. Thus there are less certain odds, but with all things the higher the danger the better the chance of victory. With Titus out of the way, the game will fall pretty easily to the mafia because David will push to lynch those outside the town block. From there keeping Vyse alive will be tough but from the standpoint of myself, I would have saftety. A mafia win but a precarious one. Not a great plan.

2.4 Titus is not my teammate and freaks out when I jump her on the lynch. Titus is able to swing a compelling case and get the town to back me. Elbrin Lynch game over.

This is a worse case senario. Due to this, appeasing Titus is best because of the difficulty of 2.3.

2.5 Titus is my teammate and using this devolution I am able to work the town into a panick. While in the panicked state the town chooses to mislynch Vyse. Lynch Vyse

The advantage of this is that the game will run smoothly. David, Molla, FireBringer and Suzune lack the order to bring the four of them together into a cohesive team unless pushed. Unless I kno the players really well and know that someone could lead. This is the too good to be true option since on paper it works out but it is too difficult to micromanage thus a lot of the plan will rely on good timing and the reactions of people. Ideally this plan is not the way to go.

2.6 Titus is not my teammate and the devolution causes the town to panic and mislynch Vyse. Lynch Vyse.

This is also not a situation that I would wish to happen. The difficulty of controlling the situation could get out of hand and people will end up lynched for little things. Thus this option should not be considered.

2.7 Vyse is my teammate and using his early scum read on Molla is able to get Molla lynched. Molla Lynch

This here is a potential for a good plan. With Molla out of the way a frustrated voice of reason leaves the town. This leaves sort of a mess. The game would run like usual however with not active mafia manipulation. If we think we are unable to run a higher stakes games this is the safest route because no one has to alter their play in order for it to work sucessfullly

[Suzune]

And Titus I realised you were a she about half way though the typing so, there might be some gender discrepancies. Sorry about that

[Suzune]

I am not the last scum.

[Suzune]

I already said it when I was against Shiro. However you are all so stuck in your speed lynch ways to think.

[Suzune]

Obviously you are not friends yet if you are going to be wrong again.

[Suzune]

If I wa gambling person and boss just dumped a project in my lap. I would assume it is molla. Kaito said I should not worry about her because she is just concerned town.

[Suzune]

I think that the final three did amazing there are the end. Good job to everyone~

[Suzune]

We're so very similar, and so very different at the same time, y'know? It's kinda weird.

I agree so much. We have a similar style so I love to hear your opinions, however, at the same time I want to get rid of you all the time for that too.

[Suzune]

Yeah, and I should have hammered when I asked if you were at L-1

Oh well, next time

[Suzune]

Oh, it was here:

Is that L-1 Firebringer?