Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[Greatvalue]

VOTE: Joey

I've said my piece.

[Greatvalue]

vote: Cellphone

Should have happened fucking yesterday until ~someone~ decided it was a very smart play to not post for nearly ten days and show his valuable butt a few hours before deadline and pushed for a Cellphone lynch in a scummy as fuck manner.

Can't push GV until D4 though because I'm not voting anyone else until Cellphone and Phantom are both dead, and it still could be NA or Megafan with them.

Hello RadiantCowbells. Or at least someone with a horrifically similar town ego.

[You are dead to me]

You and Megafan both need to play the game and actually have reads on people other than obvious scum. Quail isn't scum for the reasons I listed and the post you quoted also doesn't make sense as partner to partner. I'm assuming you are reading Phantom as town considering you don't mention him at all. Why?

[You are dead to me]

Hi Wake!

[Quailford LOL]

Ouch :/ looks like you composed that in your Scum PT before posting.

OMG LOL this is EPIC

[Quailford LOL]

Hello RadiantCowbells. Or at least someone with a horrifically similar town ego.

hush hush

The mod said, no alt speculation.

[Greatvalue]

Soothsayer, explain the town thought process here:

Allows him to connect it to me further, and on a more flimsy note his constant reference to the slot as if it's still Dimitri falls more in line with a scumpartner mindset.

How is referring to the slot as Dmitri scummy?

To explain what I'm talking about, this was posted after the hammer and I think it exists solely to display GreatValue's "townslipping" by not knowing that Dmitri was town where he is shown to be creating paranoid theories about Dmitri's partners.

If GV is scum, his plan all along was to bait me into voting Dmitri and he'd have almost gotten away with it if I hadn't realized it now. Baiting someone else into voting by pushing the opposing lynch works well because GV can be pushing the "right" lynch while someone else takes the fallback for voting Dmitri.

Your extrapolation is at best paranoid and at worst... well let me just quote that again:

If GV is scum, his plan all along was to bait me into voting Dmitri and he'd have almost gotten away with it if I hadn't realized it now.

And again:

If GV is scum, his plan all along was to bait me into voting Dmitri and he'd have almost gotten away with it if I hadn't realized it now.

...and again!:

If GV is scum, his plan all along was to bait me into voting Dmitri and he'd have almost gotten away with it if I hadn't realized it now.

I will admit my original hypothesis regarding your usage of "Dimitri" over "Kumquat" was very flawed and formed out of incredulous anger. Considering I just referred to Joey as CellPhone as town (and so did a bunch of other people who have to be at least majority town) the point is moot anyway.

But your selfcentrism here is ridiculous. I wanted you to hammer CellPhone because I thought he was scum. You're forcing a hypothetical flawed analysis of my mindset through so many convoluted hoops that if it weren't for everything else town you've done I'd seriously be considering policy lynching you. Please stick to the straightforward, or at least something not crazy, and from now on I'll try to as well.

[Greatvalue]

You and Megafan both need to play the game and actually have reads on people other than obvious scum. Quail isn't scum for the reasons I listed and the post you quoted also doesn't make sense as partner to partner. I'm assuming you are reading Phantom as town considering you don't mention him at all. Why?

Because I do want to work with yoy when you're not being unreasonable:

I have no read on Phantom but plan on reading him. Eventually.

Why is Quailford not scum? I think there's a fairly good chance of it right now, and something like "he wasn't bussing" doesn't really work for me.

[You are dead to me]

You must have a huge ego to think you can actually policy-lynch me but thanks for the laugh.

[Greatvalue]

re:Phantom, I actually don't remember any of his posts. I don't think he's even been present in the times I've been here, or if he has he's stuck to the background completely. That's sort of a main part behind why I have no read there (unless I notice a pattern of activity without stepping out of line, I don't consider that kind of absence scummy).

[Greatvalue]

You must have a huge ego to think you can actually policy-lynch me but thanks for the laugh.

Thanks for focusing on that. There's a difference between wanting and chasing.

[Greatvalue]

Or rather, pursuing.

[You are dead to me]

If anyone's worthy of being policy-lynched, it is you. You did shit-all for all of D1, showed up 10 hours before deadline and starting arguing for a lynch with no reads, no thoughts, nothing. You can't even be fucked to read the game and you had the nerve to give me attitude for switching to Dmitri. You don't get to do that when you don't play the game. I was patient in explaining my thought process to soothsayer, and if you bother to read the thread and invest your time and energy into it, I'd probably be patient and courteous to you as well.

[Greatvalue]

Yadtm, please read Joey's "catchup" post again, but focus on his positions with me. He's strongly agreeing with your points, and buddying you really really hard, especially when it comes to your scumread on me. None of his "analysis" of me is something you haven't said before, and in buddying you and trying to validate what you're seeing in my early posts, he's been trying to set me up as a mislynch with you as the driving force.

I am aware that it being me who points this out risks the integrity of the association, but fuck that because I seriously think I should be obviously town right now based on everything regarding Cell/Joey, and everything that went down at the end of day 1 related to Cell or not. The main reason I'm lashing out at you (sorry, because I like to think I'm normally a somewhat nice person in games) is because it's just really aggravating that you're both practically confirmed town and not letting anything change your view on me, including Cell being scum after all, and instead you're just twistng your hypothetical narrative to fit unrealistic scenarios where I am scum. That's what's getting on my nerves so much right now, not your play as a whole.

[You are dead to me]

Why is Quailford not scum? I think there's a fairly good chance of it right now, and something like "he wasn't bussing" doesn't really work for me.

He was null to me until I saw that Joey post. Using interactive tells to catch scum works for me and the way he talked about Quail looked a lot like he was trying to justify wagoning Quail at some point in a way that doesn't draw attention to him. I do think it was a fairly weak tell because it was a single post and I don't have Quail as solidly town. I'd put him in the bottom of my townpile.

Why is he scum though? You quoted a post. Talk about this more.

[Greatvalue]

If anyone's worthy of being policy-lynched, it is you. You did shit-all for all of D1

True, besides the beginning and end.

showed up 10 hours before deadline and starting arguing for a lynch with no reads, no thoughts, nothing. You can't even be fucked to read the game and you had the nerve to give me attitude for switching to Dmitri.

No. After a series of mild panic-induced events (again, I thought the confidence levels for the lynches were way too high for comfort and thought that indicated both would be town), I decided that reading the posts between Kumquat and Cellphone was the most realistic course of action given the game status. While I found both moments of town play and moments of scummy play in Kumquat's posts that seemed to cancel my read out to null, in CellPhone's posts I found nothing town and detected some scum motivation in his cross-vote on Kumquat (piling on the reasons for Kumquat over him, which plays to a sense of scum survivalism rather than town survivalism). You can see this starting at 791, and going on mainly through posts 800, 801, and 820.

You can say I argued for a CellPhone lynch mainly because the most likely alternative (Kumquat) seemed marginally worse by my half-fleshed out reads, yes. But then when I actually gave my reads in 824, which you

saw

, you just hammered not only 5 posts later.

That made me mad, because I didn't think (and still kind of don't) you listened to anything I said rationally - I had a townread on you, but that level of ignorance with your sudden hammer was so upsetting that in that moment the instinctive response was something along the lines of "oh god you're scum aren't you", until I cooled down and got it back together.

I was patient in explaining my thought process to soothsayer, and if you bother to read
the thread and invest your time and energy into it, I'd probably be patient and courteous to you as well.

If I find enough free time to pour a few uninterrupted hours into this game, maybe I will. I'm not giving any guarantees because quite frankly I have better things to do, and now that we finally have associatives everything else not recent is nowhere near as important as what we're getting now, until maybe in later days if we're stumped for clues. That is simply how I play and I'm not going to clutter myself when most of day 1 is circular anyway.

Also, I want everyone to know that I'm not fighting for my survival right now, take me at my word or not. I'm trying to fight for my credibility, because you're the most clear town here, but you keep shutting me down over inconsequential things or a ridiculously-justified scumread tunnel, when I honestly think I've actually done a significant amount of shit that matters, in the most recent parts of this game that've actually mattered.

[Megafan1998]

yo

[Megafan1998]

• >>> Shiba Tatsuya,

  Vanilla Townie

  , was killed Night 1! <<<
  
  
  
  Day 2 begins.
  
  Thirteen players remain. Also, I'm removing a prod from everyone who's incurred one so far.

waow

[Megafan1998]

For those still in the dark:

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[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7333960#p7333960]post 885 [/url], Joey Tribbiani"]
[post=#7293524]73[/post]

I find the last part of this post (the part pertaining to the scumread of Shiba) to be town. Noticing that discrepancy between the ruleset and the perceived notion of being newbtown leads to more of the in-depth thought that comes with the town alignment.

That being said, it looks like he was preparing to vote yadtm with the last line and then his vote on Shiba seems unexplained, and being left to implication bothers me.

 [post=#7293524]84[/post]

Why did you instantly jump to discredit the read? I got a townread based solely off of that post, does that mean that  read is invalid?

[post=#7293524]108[/post]

This claim takes a lot of cojones to come from scum. My primary question why they didn't out it in their first post, however upon reevaluation I could make out the thought process of attempting to draw a nightkill by being one of the more evidently town players, and to have been initially responded to with a scumread shook that gameplan.

[post=#7293524]144[/post]
[/quote]

When you type:

Code: Select all

[post]74[/post]

for instance and click preview, the code changes it to something like this:

Code: Select all

[post=#7293524]74[/post]

so the actual post refers to the seventy fourth post in that thread which is given a unique post number across the board. So, he typed it all up in the scum PT and clicked preview thus changing all the post numbers to refer to ones in that Private Topic. When he quoted it again and copy-pasted it here, the unique post tags still referred to the scum PT posts.

HOLY SHIT LOL

VOTE: Joey Tribiani

[Greatvalue]

Why is Quailford not scum? I think there's a fairly good chance of it right now, and something like "he wasn't bussing" doesn't really work for me.

He was null to me until I saw that Joey post. Using interactive tells to catch scum works for me and the way he talked about Quail looked a lot like he was trying to justify wagoning Quail at some point in a way that doesn't draw attention to him. I do think it was a fairly weak tell because it was a single post and I don't have Quail as solidly town. I'd put him in the bottom of my townpile.

Why is he scum though? You quoted a post. Talk about this more.

You're talking about this section at the end, right?:

Something to note, I have a townread on Shiba as of page 12, but cannot ascertain the exact reasonings behind it. One thing that is jumping out at me is the way he was townreading all the major wagons- the odds that we had yet to wagon a scum at this point is pretty negligible. The attempt to start a quail wagon also felt good, because I find myself questioning the lack of one. As of 299, I would definitely find myself voting quail.

My readup is done as of post 14, I will likely continue reading coming into tomorrow. I definitely want to investigate the wagons that are evident at the end of the day, however, because I know I am town and kumquat flipped town means there is something very wrong going on here. I haven't gotten to any kumquat posts yet so I don't really know where the wagon is coming from, though.

This is in many cases more of a player-sensitive issue, which definitely doesn't help the read in an alt game, but I also find it odd how he immediately goes from "I would vote Quail" to just saying he's done with catching up for now and not placing any vote. As I said it might just be a player preference but it's only the start of day 2, and I don't think it's unreasonable to think that not voting Quail in spite of his pledge to the case and wagon that Shiba made could be a minor scumpartner tell.

As for talking about Quail a lot, he responds to or mentions Quail only once outside of that quote, while he responds to or mentions me in a negative way 4 times. Take that as you will, but from my perspective it really just looks like he's trying to set me up as a lynch (with pre-existing support in your read on me), while he "balances out" in a sense by not forgetting to include an actual scumpartner in his scumreads. Your token soft bus, as it were.

Bringing up another point from the Joey wall next, but want to post this in case the mod locks first.

[Megafan1998]

Should have happened fucking yesterday

this is a scumtell

[Megafan1998]

BTW, for posterity's sake, I'll mention that I am pretty sure that Shiba was a vig kill, which means that the scum kill was probably somehow interrupted.

oh

good shot

[You are dead to me]

You are not my top suspect or even my second suspect. I think it is unreasonable to sign up for a game and not participate claiming that you have better things to do while also bringing the attitude you did towards the end on D1. Joey's posts don't clear you. When I first read them, they looked informed like he knew you were scum. But that may have just been conf-bias on my part so I'm going set that aside and re-read with a clear head later. You haven't done anything of significance. While you are here, mind ISOing Phantom and giving your read on him? If you are town, read the thread and form reads.

The same goes for Megafan. I'm not even considering lynching either of you before D4.

[You are dead to me]

Joey is at L-2. No one vote yet. Don't want derp-hammers and I'd rather wait a couple of days to hear from Phantom and people who haven't posted as well Soothsayer's updated thoughts.

[Greatvalue]

Spoiler: Dipsy's 155 and 156

In other news, Qualford is town, I think I may know who Dead guy is, which makes him likely town, and Gumby is still scum.

Unvote
Vote Gumby

P-edit: Kill it with fire!

scum

Which specific circumstances would "allow" you to play obvtown?

"not getting caught" LOL

scum

gumby is town af and these people mistakenly think they can deride him for an easy bad lynch

Thoughts on Dimitri?

Scum. And his posts are artificial. Which means he's scum.

calling 'artificial' a scum tell in a game full of secret alts, lol ok whatever you say

trying to rely on old rules = scum doesn't know how to approach this game

I can understand quailford

, but what is bothering you about gwen? I also don't have any qualms with referring to posts as artificial, as there is such a thing as being too over the top in the attempt to mask one's identity where it can become attempting to mask one's alignment. For instance, I find myself refraining from using phrases I have so often fallen back on, in favor of a more verbose and meticulous vocabulary. While yes,, it will probably sound remotely artificial, it is not to the point where Dimitri is.

This is the only other reference to Quailford besides the previously quoted mention at the end of his wall. That on its own isn't scummy (unless you compare it to his other "understandable" scumreads like me), but I really doubt that that subquoted post by Quail was enough for him to even agree there, when there's nothing else he or anything he's quoted has said to back a Quail scumread. And scum don't just scumread town without at least showing or hinting at a justifiable reason, they do that to a scumpartner because they know who's scum and know there'll always be at least something there they can use to justify themselves if needed so that their reads don't look fake (random townreads are always easier for scum to make than random scumreads that they then might have to commit a vote to, in part also due to there being more town than scum). In short, I believe Joey as scum threw out a spur of the moment read on Quailford to pad his reads, and that how it's a scumread rather than a townread is a decent indicator that Quail is a scumpartner-scumread that he can use his knowledge to be assured is justifiable, rather than a random townie-scumread he hasn't bothered to bring up before.