Mini 1737: Bringer Mafia [Mafia Win]

[PatientZer0]

actually no, all alone and bullet's were just as bad.

[Fraggernaut]

I didn't call Frozen out?

Top 4 scum.

1. Bullet
2. All Alone
3. Accountant
4. Frozen

Pretty sure there's two in there. Especially cause a trigger happy scum would be quick to jump on that statement to try to PR hunt.

If you weren't defensive against RC, You are defensive right now.

I can't accept this as a town move , and the way you soft claimed ..........

VOTE: Fraggernaut he is in L2 I guess

Lets see how will you react under more pressure ...

Also it's pretty bad play for Frozen to put me at L2 without stating intent cause scum can quick hammer a mislynch right here. So always look at Frozen as well.

Keep Mis-repping Radiant. Your feet are becoming shackled now.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wow you're quite a donkey.

There's no need for this sort of personal attack even if you feel upset.

Whose upset? I'm actually pretty flabbergasted that someone with as many games played could be this bad at town. I don't buy it which can only mean that I was probably wrong on one between Bullet, All Alone & yourself. There's no way someone with this much experience is this bad as town. The world I'm living in has to be Radiant/Accountant with a outside of Bullet or All Alone.

I was pretty clearly referring to this post.

You throw out lots of big shit that you don't really understand.

[Fraggernaut]

Right sure you were after realizing you're not going to be able to mis-rep me cause I can back my statements up. Keep try harding.

[Fraggernaut]

That's two times now you've mis-repped me. A heavy scum trait. Tsk tsk Radiant.

[Accountant]

Fragger when you say something you have to actually back it up and not just insult your opponents with terms like "you're just trying to mis-rep" me.

Like, you said "I did call Frozen out" and RC goes "no you didn't" and then instead of providing a counter evidence to RC's quote you just say he's misrepping you.

Also just realized that for post 212 you literally just took the last 4 people on your wagon and listed them as scum. That's pretty big defensiveness/OMGUS.

[Frozen Angel]

Well , I was in hurry last time I posted , now I'm summarizing my thoughts :

RC is so arrogant , wild and crazy but its helpful because we can see how people can react under his pressure . the way you answered to his spam attack , is considerable : YOU TOOK IT SERIOUSLY.

In past 4 pages the only thing I can see is you acting defensive , You quit scum hunting and accused your voters in general. Well yes I'm agreed one of your voters is probably scum even if your scum ... It's a pretty obvious move form your teammates to join your lynch if your going down. In this scenario I'm going to suspect All Alone if you flip mafia.

There is some kind of soft claims in your posts... It's not a town PR way to gain trust. SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE.

you stated RC is misreading you , 1 time , 2 time , .... 10 times?! If your not scum instead of this you can provide a solid defense why the person who is leading your wagon (Accountant) is wrong or scummy ...

I already mentioned why I voted you : To put you under pressure. its a very common approach in day 1 to gain intell. BUT YOU TOOK IT SERIOUSLY again and got defensive as hell! Now I changed my mind about you. I won't take back my vote , not if I find something scummier or a solid answer from you ...

[Frozen Angel]

I mean I won't change my vote till someone act more scummier or I see a solid considerable answer from you....


English Grammar Mistake!

[BNL]

@Bullet

You said

No, the reason why I find you scummy is because I don't currently see how you are contributing to the game.

@Vedith #103 is at Fraggernaut

I asked

What have you actually provided to the game so early on? I would like to hear what privileged information you seem to have.

I also asked

@Bullet Also you realize I wasn't the first one to state RVS was over right? So are you reading everyone else scummy who has made such a statement?

I ask again in my #192

No, they look like they give content but don't contribute to the game

Once again. What content have you exactly posted? Cause I'm not finding any.

In my #195 if you had any original reads that were your own.

No, they look like they give content but don't contribute to the game

Hm. Exactly what I told Accountant. Got anything original?

Could it be as easy as a Bullet/All Alone/Accountant team?

Firstly, after post 105, I had to go to sleep as it was 11pm at my time zone.

@106 I made post 53. If you think that's not enough, then it wasn't. IMO posting useless comments is worse than not posting at all, because it makes you seem like you are actively contributing, while you are actually not.

@120 The reason why I thought you scummy was because you were repeating other people's thoughts. It was also a statement of fact, so it was also sort of IIOA.

@192 Vedith, but that read has died down, I'm now scum reading All Alone, which I'll explain in a later post.

Fraggernaut, after you have been put into pressure, I like it that you are starting to give your personal opinions and contributing to scumhunting. I didn't have WiFi for most of the day, only at occasional moments when I took public WiFi, and for a brief moment in the morning.

I'll like to ask: Since in your reads list you say I am your top suspect, why is your vote on All Alone instead of me?

[BNL]

Now I shall explain why All Alone is scum.

In this game, All Alone was lurking, and posted only about once/twice per day. And when he did, he would shift his vote to the largest wagon possible. Note that he did not ever turn a L-2 wagon into L-1. Also in that game, you can see that in the original game (not restarted) he was town, and didn't jump to the biggest wagon. Very short, but contentful for AA's meta.

In this game, he started a wagon on Accountant first during RVS (of course not his own wagon), and came out only rarely. Then when he came back he shifted his vote to Fraggernaut, who had the largest wagon at that time.

UNVOTE: Fraggernaut
VOTE: All Alone

[Accountant]

I reject meta arguments, and All Alone has not sheeped enough wagons(first one was RVS, second was obviously scummy) for me to read her as scum due to sheeping.

[Accountant]

Fraggernaut, after you have been put into pressure, I like it that you are starting to give your personal opinions and contributing to scumhunting.

I see this as null. It could be townie who is doing this, or scum who does not want to get lynched day 1 and is desperately trying to act useful. So this does not affect my opinion of Fraggernaut, who is still my top scumread.

[Keyser Söze]

[Page 6 & 7]

Alright this is literally confirmed scum.

I think "confirmed" is thrown about to easy these days

@RadiantCowbells, PatientZer0 and Frozen Angel

- no more song lyrics and YouTube videos please (Null-fluff).

You heard me maggot. Enjoy your lynch, scum.

This insult/threat does not help your scum-case. If both of you are town and Fraggernaut flips green, who are we going to look at? Discuss the 'evidence' - don't hurl abuse.

Why would I care what questions scum ask me?

Engage all your reads (both town and scum). No-one is a closed case until a flip/investigation. This is bad-town (you should know this RadiantCowbells). A bit early for confirmed-bias, don't you think?

I honestly don't understand what's with this whole pocket thing.

Then how could you say it is "confirmed scum"?

I townread fraggernaut and

scumread RadiantCowbells for ultimate off topic posting

Why do you scumread this playstyle? It is the definition of NULL. RadiantCowbells is winning no town-points from me posting "off topic" content. Neither am I going to label him scum. With a shortened day phase I hope we don't see any more pages full of "off-topic" wall-posts.

[Keyser Söze]

[Page 8]

I'm not one to use meta, but do you think it would help in this situation
It seems like it would, cause accountant's posting doesn't ring any bells for me

Have you followed up with this? What's your meta-analysis: is "Accountant's antitown=scum pushing" consistent with her town-meta?

Well Rc's way of play makes scum to act so defensive and get out of their shell. As her attack of you Fraggernaut , I'm going to think your a town player becuase the way you answered to her arrogance. I don't get scum vibes from him nor you ...

We might wait and see how her arrogance can be helpful.

This sounds like you know/believe that RadiantCowbells is town-aligned.
Question: If RadiantCowbells is scum would his "way of play" make town to act defensive too?

Are you telling me that you can't think of any time where town didn't put attention into the game? Because I can think of plenty.
Inattentiveness might be antitown but it is definitely not alignment indicative.

VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

By voting me you say you think I'm the scum, but I don't see a clear reasoning as to why you think so.

'Calling out something non-alignment indicative as scummy'.

Also

Fraggernaut still hasn't posted anything of content

, his posts are actually worse then Vedith now, who is answering questions.

That's a harsh observation. Yes, Fraggernaut is overly-focused on only the players that are pressing him, but to say it is doesn't contain content is harsh.

IMO it doesn't really seem like he's trying to figure the game out.

Part true - Fraggernaut's 'contributions' have been directed at the players attacking/defending him (looking at your own wagon is productive). I don't think this is OMGUS, this is short-sightedness. I hope to hear Fraggernaut's view on everyone.

Could it be as easy as a Bullet/All Alone/Accountant team?

I have never seen a 3-man scum team all jump on the same wagon this early.
Is this paranoid-town? Fraggernaut, surely you don't believe this?

Slandaar does shit like this every game.

Exactly. Null. But his low-activity stinks.

Pretty great though that I got three of my scum leans on my wagon now.

What about 'off' your wagon? Any reads/focus there?

[BNL]

My reads list is almost ready, will try to post here soon.

[BNL]

@Keyser I don't think Errant is scummy, I just want to know why he thinks I'm scummy

[Frozen Angel]

@Keyser I don't know, nor believe her alignment ... My point was this : I already saw her way of spam attack against someone and even hammering people so early in day 1 from her which was proven useful , because of that I won't suspect her because of this "off-topic" wall-posts ...

Her way of attack may cause people to defend themselves .

Defending yourself is completely right. playing defensive is what I call scummy. He just says how RC is playing bad and how invalid are RC's posts are. He calls all his voters scummy and clearly soft role claiming.

If he had nothing to fear about what is this afraid tone coming from?

Also it's pretty bad play for Frozen to put me at L2 without stating intent cause scum can quick hammer a mislynch right here. So always look at Frozen as well.

@Fraggernaut I want to see why you think scum will hammer you so soon this early game? I'm sure I cleared I just want to see your reaction in L2

[Frozen Angel]

He in third paragraph refers to Fraggernaut

[Keyser Söze]

[Page 9]

Please give me more votes so I can out my role & show you how dumb you are. K thanks.

Very early to be soft-claiming There were only 4 votes on you. Did you think there was enough evidence on you to push you to L-1?
Anti-town: yes
Defensive: yes
Motivation: survival

is a vanilla townie. Is that what you're claiming?

Let's imagine you didn't ask this question. Do you think Fraggernaut answering this helps or harms town?

I also want to hear more from Slandaar, Fuzzy, & Errant.

Also I need to look at Vedith more.

Phew, finally. I was worried you thought that there were only 5 players playing this game.

Did I not say that my play I'm always sarcastic. Sorry. Thought a player would have thicker skin when it comes to the game.

Do you think sarcasm will support or undermine your scum-case and interactions with other players?

[BNL]

(Warning: Wall of text)

Here is my reads list:

Nulls:

Slandaar

Seriously, just a single non-content post. Please post more.

ErrantParabola

He voted for me, but didn’t post a reason why. But he’s posted very little in the game, would like him to post more.

TheFuzzylogic99

Not sure if not voting in RVS is scummy, but I don’t think that anything can be read off them (except for lolwagons which lead to lolhammers in one page). #31 is filler. At 116 he is trying to say some points, which I like, but I need to see more from him. Null leaning town.

People I can read:

Accountant

I think she is still analysing and questioning people, while still trying to scumhunt. In general she is trying to push the game forward, which is very town-like behaviour. Towards the end she starts pushing Fraggernaut for reactions too. Also with her posting her opinions on the game, this makes me have a very town read on her.

Frozen Angel

Firstly, that song wall was annoying.

Apart from that, she is trying to spot out things, and mate good observations, and basically trying to push the game forward. She thought about RC’s attack on Fraggernaut, and commented on it, but pushed Frag when she saw behaviour she didn’t like. Looks quite town to me.

Keyser Soze

Keyser starts the game with some jokes, but then he starts to get serious and contributes to the game. (He is also not so involved in Fragger X Keyser). Trying to ask questions, but a lot of them are just comments on the game. Nevertheless, seems like a townie pushing the game forward. Town.

PatientZer0

Most of his posts were just filler which is actually moderately useful, except 136 and 242. About 136, I have yet to see why he thinks I am scummy just from 99 alone, or if is not, then where it came from. Would like him to explain. 242 was an analysis of the people’s reasons for bringing Fragger to L-2, which is townie analysis, which I like. Haven’t been as scummy as the others here, so I’m slightly leaning town.

Blockyman

From past games it looks like he knows fragger quite well, and says he’s town due to similar behaviour. Hence I think #171 is fair, but if he flips scum Fragger is likely scum too.

Vedith

Reading through, I guess I overlooked the fact that #36 and #39 are trying to push the game forward. After my prompt, he starts to contribute to the game, answering people's’ questions, and also asks Accountant about her opinion on RVS, which I like. I don’t like how he says he has been acting the same as he was asking questions, but I agree that I was bullshiting when I said “covered his mistake”. Unfortunately his last post was long ago, so I have a null read on him still.

Fraggernaut

At the start, he talks about his interactions with Keyser, and a lot of other things that do not push the game forward. Then when Accountant starts to push him, most of his replies are “read my meta”, which I don’t like at all. He should post those relevant games and then mention what he did in those games to prove he is town. Then he starts questioning me, but not pushing the game forward. When I ask him about his contributions to the game, he counter-attacks me, which I don’t exactly like, because it is basically an OMGUS. Later he gets pushed my Accountant. At this moment, he starts to contribute to the game, stating past experiences with other people and hence suggesting their alignment. Unfortunately, when RC says he’s “confirmed scum”, he starts to Appeal to Emotion, which I do not like. Later, he makes a huge case on AA in #193. IMO he is OMGUSing, which is because he voted Fragger for what his weakness is too, and I do not like it. I do not trust his reaction. (Nevertheless, I do think AA is scum; see below). Then, he starts talking about his wagon, and gave is “scum list”, which is really not well thought out, as it is merely the people on his wagon (except RC because he started it). After that, he starts contributing again.

In summary, his behaviour is highly inconsistent throughout the game. Might be confused townie, but more likely confused scum.

RadiantCowbells

Starts the game by posting rubbish, and only comments about Accountant briefly when prompted, then asks Vedith for material instead of searching it up himself. Then he votes Fraggernaut, saying he is “confirmed scum”, but without explanation. Then continues posting rubbish until #224, asking him about Accountant. In general he’s just IIOAing. Scum read.

All Alone

AA starts RVS on a wagon which already existed (Accountant), then explains why he does so in #44. I actually find this town-like because of a previous game. However, he then lurks for half a day, then votes the biggest wagon so far, and tries to deflect Fraggernaut off by a counter-argument (basically an OMGUS). Then he asks everyone to vote Fraggernaut, similar to what he did in my game. This is very scummy behaviour, especially because it is his scum meta. Strong scum read.

[Keyser Söze]

[Page 10]

lol this is such a TvT argument it is not even funny.

I'm feeling that "TvT" vibe too. It's too early for a SvS hard-bus, and I'm not liking the behaviour/playstyle on either side.

UNVOTE: PatientZer0

Hey Fragger, you literally just said you wanted people to engage with you. I'm engaging with you.

What is your read on Accountant and why?

Good, some actual 'engagement'. This makes me warm to the idea of RadiantCowbells being town.

Fraggernaut instead claimed to scumread her, most likely because

he expected that I'd be interested in pushing a wagon there

.

This is scum.

Hmm. Feels a bit reachy.

Fraggernaut has been scum-reading nearly everyone interacting with him: from the people on his wagon, and the players town-reading him (suspecting being "pocketed"). This shouts paranoid-townie to me. For me he only wins scum-points for not engaging with players 'outside his focus'.

I think it will honestly be best if we bring him to claim

What? Fraggernaut should only claim if 7 people think he is scum.

[All Alone]

Now I shall explain why All Alone is scum.

In this game, All Alone was lurking, and posted only about once/twice per day. And when he did, he would shift his vote to the largest wagon possible. Note that he did not ever turn a L-2 wagon into L-1. Also in that game, you can see that in the original game (not restarted) he was town, and didn't jump to the biggest wagon. Very short, but contentful for AA's meta.

In this game, he started a wagon on Accountant first during RVS (of course not his own wagon), and came out only rarely. Then when he came back he shifted his vote to Fraggernaut, who had the largest wagon at that time.

UNVOTE: Fraggernaut
VOTE: All Alone

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Every single thing you've mentioned is something I've done as town and scum. Literally all of them. If you're town, you need to discard this sort of nonsense and look at actual motives.

Such as Fraggernaut, who apparently suspects all five players pushing his lynch. Since there's only 3 scum in this game, a townie should be trying to pare that list down. Fragger isn't. He just keeps throwing more and more crap at everyone voting him. Most likely, he's throwing all that crap in the hopes that everyone else is too fecaphobic to join the wagon. I seriously doubt a townie would feel compelled to do that.

pedit:

lurks for half a day

Bullet, you might want to be aware that some dumbass is writing completely fucking stupid shit while signed in to your account.

[Keyser Söze]

RC is so arrogant , wild and crazy but

its helpful

because we can see how people can react under his pressure .

Again, Frozen Angel is assuming that this is town-RadiantCowbells helping us to weed out scum.
Why are you presuming this is town-RadiantCowbells helping us to "see how people can react under his pressure"?
I understand the value of pressure/pressing - but are you town-reading RadiantCowbells?

There is some kind of soft claims in your posts... It's not a town PR way to gain trust. SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE.

Agreed. Town-Fraggernaut should be better than that. Defending yourself against pressure with an early soft role-claim is ill-advised


Caught up with last night's events.
Now going to look at each poster individually.

[BlockyMan]

Ok, yall need to sleep anyway. I know Keyser. This is his town game. I expected a little more, ah, crazyness outta him, but he is a very nice contributor. I scumread BulletNLynchProof with pushing for Fraggernaut, but hes helped the game out a lot here, and is starting to sway town for me. Same with Keyser here, Frozen Angel, that makes no sense. So right now, I have to say my two scumreads are Frozen Angel and Radiant Cowbell.
Frozen Angel 60% chance to me scum for me, RadiantCowbells 90%

[BlockyMan]

So Three people on my wagon thus far are.

-Radiant
-Bullet
- All Alone

I would most likely assume one of the three is scum. I take Radiant's play so far as trolling & not all the serious cause they don't have a case. Bullet & All Alone are living in glass houses with a sack of rocks behind them waiting to start chucking them some more. The fact that All Alone sheeped a horrible read from Bullet makes me lean more to Bullet being my most likely scum target thus far. I don't think the scum team would be dumb enough to have two people on a three person wagon this early. I could be wrong though as I'm prone to be. It's a split between Bullet/All Alone. Unfortunately there's not much to ISO on them this early, because even though they claim I haven't provided any content, they haven't either; It's even safe to say they've provided LESS content then myself; which makes both their votes pretty humerous. I'll look at this closely moving forward.

Here's where All Alone has already slipped.

VOTE: Fraggernaut

IMO it doesn't really seem like he's trying to figure the game out. In particular

Also why are we still talking about RVS when it's clearly over?

is a pretty strange thing for Fraggernaut to complain about when he's still on his RVS vote. A townie who sincerely thought RVS was over would most likely be pushing the player they suspect, but Fragger hasn't.

All Alone says it's weird that I complained about RVS being over, when I wasn't the first one to mention that RVS was over. That was another direct sheep from Bullet when Bullet said the same thing. I questioned Bullet about what he thought about the others who said it before me. If he read them scum. No reply. Here's the funny thing though. All Alone has only posted four times this game. One was a confirm post which is a throw away.

VOTE: Accountant

VOTE: All Alone

Why are you naked voting in RVS? And on a bandwagon no less.

What else am I gonna do? Write a case on a player who hadn't even posted?

Bandwagons are the best way to RVS because they're the fastest way out of RVS.

VOTE: Fraggernaut

IMO it doesn't really seem like he's trying to figure the game out. In particular

Also why are we still talking about RVS when it's clearly over?

is a pretty strange thing for Fraggernaut to complain about when he's still on his RVS vote. A townie who sincerely thought RVS was over would most likely be pushing the player they suspect, but Fragger hasn't.

Which the last quote would be quite hypocritical if you look at the last vote count.

This VC Brought To you By The VoteCountBringer. I bring you vote counts because thats what I do.

The job is rough, and the pay is lousy. We lost some good vote counters in this line of work...

Vote Count #1.3:

Vedith (L-6): BulletNLynchProof

Accountant (L-6): All Alone

Keyser Soze (L-6): Fraggernaut

Errantparabola (L-6): Vedith

PatientZer0 (L-5): Frozen Angel, Keyser Soze

BulletNLynchproof (L-5): Errantparabola, PatientZer0

TheFuzzylogicc9 (L-6): Accountant

Fraggernaut (L-6): RadiantCowbells

RadiantCowbells (L-6): BlockyMan


Not Voting: Slandaar

With 13 people alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-14 01:45:00) [/color][/area]

All Alone is still on their RVS vote as well, nor has made any effort to provide content to this game. Period. So them placing a vote on myself for "not trying to figure out the game" is pretty laughable in itself. If you were just " bandwagoning" a RVS vote to quickly get RVS over with; why haven't you pushed any possible scum yourself? It's not a play that town would make. It's a pity you made yourself this obvious so early on in the game All Alone, especially with possibly outing one of your partners in the process.

VOTE: All Alone

Call it OMGUS all you want. I call it taking care of outed scum.

I don't see where he slipped.