Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

I have my sights set on you next, RR.

That's okay, I'll enjoy watching you fail.

Titus being killed, and there only being one kill, simplifies things immensely. Extremely likely Jeanne is town at this point. I was suspicious that there was a sk(given scum bp, and scum having a power to increase their influence on votes, thus supporting the idea that there was a smaller scum team+sk setup) and one of jeanne/Titus was the sk, but that scenario is much less likely at this point.

-Cerb

[Jeanne11]

You who wanted to oust Titus, Ranger and myself because we pegged your partner and were right on the money. The fact that one of us perished only drives the nail in deeper. She was killed by you, wasn't she?

[Jeanne11]

RR acted kind of desperate in this game, flailing whenever someone attacked him and demanding the objective proof from Kari while accusing me of the same thing. I am gonna oust you real hard, RR.

[Reasonably Rational]

You who wanted to oust Titus, Ranger and myself because we pegged your partner and were right on the money. The fact that one of us perished only drives the nail in deeper. She was killed by you, wasn't she?

Absolutely Jeanne. That is definitely what happened. I am indeed a fool who went out on a limb to attempt to blatantly protect my scum buddy, and then followed that up by killing titus, the weaker of the roles outed between the two of you, and someone who I spent the entire day arguing with, who I know to be someone capable of being reasoned with, unlike yourself.

I definitely did that. 100% of the time when that sequence of events happens, the person in my position is scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

RR acted kind of desperate in this game, flailing whenever someone attacked him and demanding the objective proof from Kari while accusing me of the same thing. I am gonna oust you real hard, RR.

I actually don't think I've ever flailed in a game. Objective proof *is* required from all parties. Being lucky and hitting scum on D1 due to flawed logic is nothing more than that, being "lucky". I have yet to see someone present a logical, objective case, about any of the slots in this game, including LQ. The fact that he was scum means you got lucky, NOT that your case was strong enough to stand on it's own merits.

I think we're long last theory talk though.

-Cerb

[Jeanne11]

Yeah, that's what you want us to think. Reverse psychology anyone?

Case on RR and Klingon

Klingon votes Ranger, bypassing he so called scumreads and any semblance of a viable wagon. She doesn't follow up or question people. Her questions don't lead to sorting anyone. She doesn't have anger about us excluding her from the code and from the neighborhood

RR's relationship here is weird as well. RR clearly doesn't like the LQ wagon. RR says KC is not scum hunting. Yet, he refuses to ever toss her out as an alternative wagon. He refuses to wagon Klingon. Their interactions scream to us.

The insistence that Ranger be lynched doesn't help you two either.

@Elbirn @Suzune @Ranger Vote with me

VOTE: Klingoncelt

FOS: RR

[Jeanne11]

@RR Objective proof is required from everyone, you say? Then explain to me just how was LQ magically excluded from giving any when I asked him multiple times to give some? Or is it then only he and yourself are excluded from giving any while the rest of us have to give it?

[Jeanne11]

But you're right, let's have a nice long chat. Me, you, Elbirn and Suzune.

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR Objective proof is required from everyone, you say? Then explain to me just how was LQ magically excluded from giving any when I asked him multiple times to give some? Or is it then only he and yourself are excluded from giving any while the rest of us have to give it?

Go reread D1. I didn't interact with LQ at all except at the end of the day when he started saying things that didn't make sense. I also expressed at that time that it was seeming more likely that he was scum, and if he was, then Titus was almost definitely town (and by extension, so are you, though I didn't actually say that part.) There was no point at which I excused LQ. I actually asked him to make a case against you, and he never did.

Pay more attention to what actually happened, the facts of what was said, and less attention to how you THINK things happened.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

But you're right, let's have a nice long chat. Me, you, Elbirn and Suzune.

And Ranger! You forgot Ranger, don't want her to feel left out.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Anyways. Today should be spent pressuring BM, pistachion, and Klingon. We need thoughts on everything from those 3 slots.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and to whoever did that. You know who you are. We won't be doing anything with it without overwhelming evidence that it's a positive thing for the town.

-Cerb

[Jeanne11]

Also, you say that Titus is weaker of the two? Well, I somehow doubt that. However, even if it's true, she is also smarter. That is precisely why you killed her. You knew I was emotionally driven and you thought you could use that to throw us townies into chaos.

p-edit: Don't count on us following you. I will do as Titus told me to, and that means pressuring you and Klingon.

[Jeanne11]

Speaking about Ranger, you threw her under the bus because she relied on gut, as did I and wgeurts. Funny thing is, while he's excluded, me and Ranger be damned for relying on gut. What's wrong with gut reads, may I ask? Gut reads pegged one scum.

[FireKari]

Will be mostly away today and 2moro on vacation. May end up posting some but will likely be drunk lol.
Also, scumlean on BM, RR, and Wgeurts.
~Yukari

[Reasonably Rational]

Speaking about Ranger, you threw her under the bus because she relied on gut, as did I and wgeurts. Funny thing is, while he's excluded, me and Ranger be damned for relying on gut. What's wrong with gut reads, may I ask? Gut reads pegged one scum.

I dont recall wgeurts ever referencing a gut read. He referred to exact aspects of people's play as why he felt the way he did about them, if I'm recalling correctly. Rangers issue was there were 2 posts made by wgeurts before she marked him. That's a stupid read, not a gut read.

When I'm not on mobile I will gladly tell you exactly what's wrong with gut reads. Hopefully Drixx already expressed it somewhere in the game so I can just quote him. :p the short version, though, is that gut reads without logic backing them up are as likely to be detecting a dislike for someone's playstyle, a pr, or simply you having a bad day, as they are to catch scum. They are inconsistent and worthless when used by themselves, and anyone who relies on gut is a knuckle dragging idiot in my opinion. This isn't intended as a personal attack against anyimone, but it is an honest expression of my opinion of that particular play style.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, you say that Titus is weaker of the two? Well, I somehow doubt that. However, even if it's true, she is also smarter. That is precisely why you killed her. You knew I was emotionally driven and you thought you could use that to throw us townies into chaos.

p-edit: Don't count on us following you. I will do as Titus told me to, and that means pressuring you and Klingon.

Oh, about this: yes, because YOU outed her ability being limited to sending two messages, and the two of you together outed that your ability allows MULTIPLE DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITHIN THE SAME DAY to join the PT with you(at different times, yes) AND she used her other ability already, it was OBVIOUS to anyone with half a brain that your role was objectively stronger for organizing town than her own, and thus said role is more of a threat. Yes, Titus is, in my experience at least, a stronger and more threatening player who was more likely to better utilize their power than yourself, especially without her advice, but to claim that your power isn't stronger than hers is nonsensical.

Kari: 1/3 isn't terrible.

-Cerb

[Jeanne11]

I believe wgeurts did says he gut reads somewhere in the thread.

Found it

Yes please do, gut reads are a thing!

So you know she is more reasonable than I? She was killed instead of me. Sounds like a certain scum decided to remove a player who is the real threat and manipulate the hell out of Elenor. Well, that's not gonna happen.

[Reasonably Rational]

I believe wgeurts did says he gut reads somewhere in the thread.

Found it

Yes please do, gut reads are a thing!

So you know she is more reasonable than I? She was killed instead of me. Sounds like a certain scum decided to remove a player who is the real threat and manipulate the hell out of Elenor. Well, that's not gonna happen.

I expressly said earlier that we can reason with Titus. It sounds more like scum left you alive because you are not a voice town can rally behind because you don't make sense and you can't be reasoned with. Wgeurts not having our disdain for gut does not mean in his play in this game he used gut as a reason for any beliefs he had. You are mistaking the reason why we had issues with yourself and ranger. Accepting gut is not the same as relying on it. Accepting it is naive, imo, but relying on it is foolish and unacceptable to us.

-Cerb

[Jeanne11]

That is what they said. Look at them say that scum left me alive because I am not good to rally behind. You say I don't have Titus' advice, but I still do. Her post-death advice. And I also have the farm + Ranger, who are likely to stand together with me.

[Suzune]

I have my sights set on you next, RR.

Personally I think this is a bad choice.

Anyways. Today should be spent pressuring BM, pistachion, and Klingon. We need thoughts on everything from those 3 slots.

Personally I wonder if Pistachion is lynch bait but the others are believe are worth the push.

p-edit, I apologise Jeanne but I agree that you were left alive because you hinder the town. You need to calm down today a little otherwise the town will not be able to think and reason.

[Jeanne11]

For the record, I do not like the way you think. Not all of us have the same approach and demonizing those who don't think like you two do doesn't sit well with me. It doesn't sit well with me at all.

[Jeanne11]

@Suzune Titus and I discussed this in private. Pushing RR and Klingon was her idea. Had she not been killed, she would confirm this.

[Reasonably Rational]

That is what they said. Look at them say that scum left me alive because I am not good to rally behind. You say I don't have Titus' advice, but I still do. Her post-death advice. And I also have the farm + Ranger, who are likely to stand together with me.

Yes, and hopefully you'll listen to her advice. The problem though, is that without her you can't react to new developments the way she would. *sigh* Seriously Jeanne, it's super useless for us to have this particular conversation.

Is there something actually useful to the game you'd like to discuss?

-Cerb

Pedit: I couldn't possibly care less about how poorly my lack of respect for an incompetent play style sits with you. Or anyone for that matter. I will gladly educate anyone about WHY that particular playstyle is incompetent, but I won't pretend I think it's something other than terrible.

Pedit again: what you're doing isn't pushing. I feel no pressure from you. What you're doing is spamming the thread with worthless stuff. Go through our iso. Identify where we were inconsistent in our reads and actions (and do so logically, based off of just what we said, not what you thought we meant), and ask us about those things. Force us to come up with excuses for thingd. Trap us in contradictions. That's how you push us. Not spewing the crap you're currently utilizing.

[Reasonably Rational]

Stop it Jeanne. Seriously. Nobody demonized you (or anyone else). You can look through the ISO and find my thoughts on GUT. The only thing that having a gut read is good for is to alert you. You still need to actually do the work and figure out what your brain caught subconsciously and figure out whether you actually found something or if it's a false positive. There are a lot of things that can make your gut react which have nothing to do with alignment.

Objectively speaking, your posting style has been manic and borderline nonsensical so far this game. Titus essentially told you what to do yesterday and the only time you made any sense is when you listened to her. Titus is dead now and confirmed town, so we can at least trust that her motives were good, but just blindly accepting her day 1 reads as being actually correct would be a gigantic mistake.

I'm going to say this as clearly as I possibly can:

You are not going to get us lynched today, or any other day this game. All you will accomplish in trying to push us is giving scum cover to hide in. You should invite us into your strategy room if you want to know why you will be unable to lynch us. We'd rather scum stay in the dark on this one.

~Drixx