Open 612 - Bad Poets Society - Game Over - Town Win

[Errantparabola]

Less sure of Errant, I haven't seen him post much since the major Gray wagon, so I can't exactly tell if that's still the best route. I do say, I'm not sure if I townread or scumread them. I feel like a flip could relieve some ambiguity.

Brunneis, I don't really understand what you mean where you say this.

Sorry that I haven't been posting much.

[Brunneis]

Less sure of Errant, I haven't seen him post much since the major Gray wagon, so I can't exactly tell if that's still the best route. I do say, I'm not sure if I townread or scumread them. I feel like a flip could relieve some ambiguity.

Brunneis, I don't really understand what you mean where you say this.

Sorry that I haven't been posting much.

I wasn't sure of my read on you - whether you were town or scum

And I thought a flip from the lynchpool would give a better idea. Max believed a wagon on you or Ranger would be better - but I already pursued Ranger, and you weren't posting as Gray's wagon jumped.

And since my suspicion on you from the beginning was iffy or based off of other peoples doings; I didn't think wagoning you instead of Gray would help.

[The Fire Hermit]

I refuse to be apart of a second mislynch. Let my other head take the blame (or credit?) for however grayfox flips if he wants.

Just know that is is incredibly stupid that you all caved in and left Brunneis.

[Ika Musume]

I'm assuming this is StC?

I gave you a perfectly fine chance to sell me on Brun when I started derailing it. you didn't, and instead handwave dismissed it. if it turns out you *were* right and you don't want this to happen again in future games, change your habit of expecting people to blindly follow you with no reasoning given.

[Ika Musume]

I refuse to be apart of a second mislynch. Let my other head take the blame (or credit?) for however grayfox flips if he wants.

Just know that is is incredibly stupid that you all caved in and left Brunneis.

actualy no, you get both blame if its wrong as well. you did nothing to stop it and what pie has been saying, you jsut want blind "follow me" shit, you dont get that crap here.

you can take all the blame instead for trying to abolish yourself

[Quaroath]

Vote Count 2.8

Greyfoxxxx - (6) Brunneis, Persivul, Ika Musume, Ranger, duppin, Varsoon
Ranger – (2) MaxwellPuckett, GrayFoxxxx
Brunneis – (1) The Fire Hermit

Not voting - (1) , Errantparabola

The lynch it comes out, after one and all
In the end, Greyfoxxx will take the fall

Does he flip good, or does he file bad?
Will you be happy, or will you be sad?

The six voices unite and they have spoken
Will the town heal, or will it be broken?

We've lost a cop, and two of the townies
That's a poop storm, scum baking brownies

Spoiler: Flip

In this setup - there can be no miller
But yes indeed, there was a

Serial Killer

!

Greyfoxxx - Investigation Immune Serial Killer

- Lynched Day 2

Night 2 Begins.

Night ends in (expired on 2015-11-14 06:27:59)

[Quaroath]

Sorry for the delayed flip - My daughter turned 4 today and I've been at her party.

Another long night ends
And brings a new dawn
The body count trends
And our faces are drawn

All arrive, not by ones or by threes
But each by pairs, together, you see
You all awake, depressed, life is vain
Hoping and wanting to see, none slain

For you see in the night, darkness awaits
The light of all life, in the shadows abates
Alas you all realize, around about noon
That missing among you, is the

Doctor, Varsoon.

Day 3 Begins
Deadline is in (expired on 2015-11-28 23:59:59)

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. [/i][/b]

[Ika Musume]

i think maxwell is scum

from there, i would say {duppin, Ranger} as the next two scum, but i don't remotely feel confident about it

no one vote

[Ika Musume]

@MOD: what would happen if a mafia RB and a town RB roleblocked each other?

[Quaroath]

@MOD: what would happen if a mafia RB and a town RB roleblocked each other?

It's sorta like crossing the streams -

Spengler: Don't cross the streams.
Venkman: Why?
Spengler: It would be bad.
Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, "bad"?
Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
Ray Stantz: Total protonic reversal!
Venkman: Right. That's bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon.


Roleblockers targeting each other would resolve simultaneously. Both roleblockers are roleblocked.

Nothing happens.

[Ika Musume]

i'm looking at maxwell's bussing meta btw and no, his vote on ranger yesterday does not prevent them from being partners.

my most recent issue with maxwell is more or less his approach to the fox wagon; he essentially just said "not feeling it" with no reasoning given. this is a thought process that is typical of scum who want town credit when a mislynch goes through without wanting to do anything to derail it. in this case, fox wasn't town, but from the POV of scum, they wouldn't have been distinguishing between town and SK for purposes of this. and, i still hate basically everything about his d1 play. the closest thing to a town post i remember would be his massclaim posts on d2 where he tried to push it forward immediately, rather than the scum alternative (letting it drag out), but that is easily fakeable.

this is more so the case *if* i'm right that ranger is his partner - he wouldn't want to derail it because then ranger probably *would* be lynched and he'd have to have an excuse for not actually pushing her

my issue with ranger is that she's mostly spent this entire game mostly tunneling her reads without any sort of reevaluation or awareness of anything going on elsewhere. i was looking at her again and i don't get the impression she's actually finding scum, rather pushing predetermined reads to look like she's generating content when in reality there is none. the fact that she was passive enough to not bother pushing brunneis while supposedly doing this is also bad in hindsight, and then, even when she *did* have a strong scum read (Persi), she still did fucking nothing to push it - rather, we got stuff like 779 which read more like she was just finding a reason to act pissed off than actually having a reason to take issue with Persi's post (Persi's point itself, that he didn't think duppin was doing anything town being a valid thought).

duppin is POE. i need to look at my town reads again

i will flashlynch anyone who votes Brun today, even if it's the IC. that said, i'm kind of hoping i can work with you (Fire) as i don't think you're on the right track, but we need all town votes to lynch scum.

[Ika Musume]

also, i find ranger's magical SK-read on fox to be problematic because i would expect it to be a legitimate read alignment regardless, but it is significantly easier to distinguish mafia vs. SK when you know who the mafia is

no, i will not give you any town credit for being right when you displayed no visible thought process behind it

[Ika Musume]

in case it's not obvious, i think Brun is the scum-designated LYLO mislynch, which, incidentally, both Ranger and duppin are pushing.

[duppin]

in case it's not obvious, i think Brun is the scum-designated LYLO mislynch, which, incidentally, both Ranger and duppin are pushing.

Can this please stop? You (and Brunneis) seriously need to drop this "everyone vs Brunneis" already.

Now I do have a question. Why wasn't Brunneis lynched day 1?

[Ika Musume]

uh ... no?

if Brun is town and gets lynched today, the game is fucking over. so yes, i will point it out if i think scum are attempting to fabricate a push on someone. there is also that, in general , someone making a disingenuous push on someone is a fairly good sign the person being pushed is town (because it is likely to come from scum fabricating a scum read on a town player), and the fact that bad pushes are ... bad and should not be allowed to be pushed through to a lynch.

these are just a few of the reasons there is nothing wrong with my approach to the Brun read. you attempting to discredit my read based on how i'm approaching it, rather than addressing my arguments themselves, is scummy as fuck.

Can this please stop? You (and Brunneis) seriously need to drop this "everyone vs Brunneis" already.

Now I do have a question. Why wasn't Brunneis lynched day 1?

Trivium - (5) Brunneis, MaxwellPuckett, Varsoon, Makara, duppin
Brunneis – (4) GrayFoxxxx, The Fire Hermit, Trivium, goodmorning
Goodmorning – (2) Ika Musume, Vedith
Errantparabola - (1) Ranger
Varsoon - (1) Errantparabola

i imagine at this point if Brun is town (which i think is the case), the scum team didn't really give a shit about which wagon went through to a lynch. both Brun and Trivium had a fair amount of suspicion on them iirc

[duppin]

I couldn't care less if you think it is scummy to be honest. It's just really frustrating that you are basing all of your reads on Brunneis being town.

I know for a fact that your reads are wrong, because you are calling me scum and I know I am town. I am willing to consider Brunneis to be town, but then you need to provide me with an alternative world, but you fail to do that. (by calling me scum).
When I have to be scum for your reads to add up, I know you are wrong.

Possible scum: Brunneis, Ranger, Persivul, Maxwell and Errant.

Brunneis by my top scum at the moment simply based on day 1. Sure you can keep pushing the "trying to set up a mislynch" agenda all you want to, but I know I am town so it's irrelevant.

I'm curious though, does my alignment change your read on Brunneis? Please just consider me to be town for a moment - that means that your read about me trying to set up a mislynch is wrong. Does that change your read on Brunneis? Knowing that no one is trying to setup a mislynch? (At least not me).

Brunneis was the leading train day 1. The votes on them were: GrayFoxxxx, Fire Hermit, Trivium and goodmorning.
That's 1 SK, and three confirmed town.

Then makara (Persivul's slot) voted on Trivium, even though Brunneis was the leading train. Why?
Also If I was scum, I would have chosen to lynch Brunneis day 1 and keep Trivium around for a mislynch day 2, not the other way around.

Anyway, I have no idea why makara would vote on Trivium instead. I know I voted on Trivium as well after this, but the trains were even and I've already explained why I put my vote on Trivium. Should also be fairly obvious me and Brunneis aren't scum buddies.
If Brunneis was town, I see no reason for makara to do this as scum. If makara was town, it would've made more sense, but that would mean that the team would be Ranger, Errant and Maxwell, and I do not believe Ranger and Errant could be aligned, which means Brunneis would have to replace one of them (in case makara was town), which means that they are still scum.

But this seems fairly unlikely to me. I'm pretty sure that Brunneis and Persivul are both scum. Not sure who the last member is though.
My vote is going to end up on either Brunneis or Persivul today. I'm trying to figure out who would be the best lynch, and at the moment I think Brunneis is.

[duppin]

And seeing as I am convinced that the team cant be Ranger, Errant and Maxwell, I'm not lynching anone but Brunneis or Persivul today. I'm inclined to believe both of them are scum, but it's possible that one of them are town and the other scum. But there is 100% at least one scum between them.

[duppin]

One of them is* town.

[duppin]

Actually, just to make it simple.

If Brunneis is town, the scum are: Persivul, Maxwell and Ranger/Errant.
If Brunneis is scum, the scum are: Brunneis, Persivul and unknown.

[Ika Musume]

my scum read on you is POE based, it has nothing to do with Brun; my comment about you/ranger both having scum reads on Brun is part of why i think the game makes sense this way, but it doesn't make you more likely scum (this would be a circular argument) unless Ranger does flip scum.

i would look in {Errant, Persi} if you're town but i haven't yet looked in enough depth to figure out which

Then makara (Persivul's slot) voted on Trivium, even though Brunneis was the leading train. Why?
Also If I was scum, I would have chosen to lynch Brunneis day 1 and keep Trivium around for a mislynch day 2, not the other way around.

this is based entirely around what you would do as a player - you're projecting how you would approach the situation onto what other people would do when in reality this isn't the case. some scum might have preferred to lynch trivium first, or it could just be as i said (they didn't care).

this is actually an instance of the sort of circular logic you thought i was using - you're pointing this out with the preconception Brun is scum and searching to come up with stuff that matches the conclusion, rather than fitting the reads to the evidence.

[Ika Musume]

and I do not believe Ranger and Errant could be aligned

can you walk me through this in more detail? i'm aware of their early interactions etc. but i'm looking for why specifically you think it's not distancing

[The Fire Hermit]

So Grayfox and Brunneis weren't aligned. That was interesting.
The thing with Kling is she is using heavy AtE which she doesn't use as town as hard. Like its more her scum play than anything else at least from my experience.

-Fire

Not ready to jump the vote anywhere though.
Me and my other head haven't been talking but I think he wants to still push Brunneis

[duppin]

and I do not believe Ranger and Errant could be aligned

can you walk me through this in more detail? i'm aware of their early interactions etc. but i'm looking for why specifically you think it's not distancing

While this is obviously possible, I find it unlikely.
Day 1 I was actually considering this to be the case, but after day 2 I just can't see it (their interactions on page 23).

[Ika Musume]

@duppin: i've talked about why i feel preeeetty sure Brun is town, but to reiterate

i don't think their d2 play comes from scum. like, at all. it comes off like town attempting to make as much of a splash on the game as possible by pointing out who the scum on the wagon are. i do not think it looked like they were pandering or appealing to ... anyone in the game. the kind of attitude they took, in my experience, is entirely atypical of scum. their frustration and conviction read to me like it was really obviously not faked - scum will fake it in brief instances, but have a lot of trouble faking it on a body of work level, as they would have done here if they were scum - and, in most cases, i can see why they got frustrated with the arguments being pushed on them (most of which were pretty shit). i legit don't remember any argument i saw for Brun scum that looked even somewhat compelling.

the Taly head raised several points that were not only sound but showed a depth of thought i think would be more likely to come from town. i could point out specifics, but on a general level, most of what they pointed about fox (contrary to how Ranger played it, this is what a *town* player pushing a read in that position would do. i don't think scum's first instinct when being wagoned would be to SK-hunt off of their wagon, i think it would be to misdirect away from themselves in other ways, a la appealing to other players, which they explicitly did not do - what they did is what i would expect town to do in that position) and a lot of their points about Ranger resonated with me a lot (one thing in particular being how Ranger just kinda sorta tunneled all of her reads for most of d2 rather than legitimately game solved).

regardless of your alignment, Ranger's push on them looks entirely fabricated. it looked more like she was simply going with the flow, in that she started to apply pressure after a majority of people had done so, but was passive enough to back off when everyone else did. moreover, she's continued to post no fucking reasoning whatsoever for scum reading them. does this look like town who had Brun as a top scum read most of the game, or does it look like scum following a consensus scum read?

which of these reasons do you disagree with and why?

@Fire: i was briefly following Antihero vs Fakegod and, from what i saw, i didn't see any ATE there although i haven't read all of the game. can you give examples of what you're talking about?

[Ika Musume]

i *think* i agree Ranger/Errant aren't partners based on that page although tbh it's more that i thought Errant's side looked town irrespective of Ranger's alignment, rather than any one thing not looking like scum/scum interactions.

In other news: the only reason I'm not voting Brunneis right now (because their posting on page 22 makes them painfully obvious scum)

also, this post (also from that page) backs up my point above about Ranger's Brun push.