Micro 545 | Slavic Music Mafia | Endgame

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to catch up in the morning, see you guys then!

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm super confused by this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Holy fuck I was like about to vote Wgeurts then I realized I am wgeurts.

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGg

[RadiantCowbells]

Thanks for the welcome but

VOTE: Postie

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd also like rooms with Tere and Bins.

Get a room: RC/Tere

[RadiantCowbells]

Me explaining why I want to lynch someone is pointless.

I'm voting them, just leave it at that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Postie is extremely superficial and is overemphasizing her whys and questions but not really pushing for anything or taking strong stances.

She's trying too hard to look like a good townie while not really being a good townie.

[RadiantCowbells]

I`d rather lynch someone who is pro-town but scum than anti-town but town, yes.

[RadiantCowbells]

And it's incredibly disingenuous to claim that trying too hard to look like a good townie is the same as looking too townie.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's disingenuous to say D1 you know who's looking townie and who's actually a townie, if you're town.

You're acting like you have one hell of a big townread on Postie.

Would you explain why that's the case?

Why specifically these two?

For Tere because I've seen her play and I want to try to sort her.
For Bins it's something different but it loses value if I explain it.

Is this a scumclaim?

No, and I don't see how you can construe it as such.

[RadiantCowbells]

So, Bins is making a billion times more game related comment than in 1721 where she was scum.

Whether that's alignment indicative remains to be seen.

I wanted a room with Bins specifically because I was pretty damn sure she was town but now I'm not so sure considering that she entirely evaded my radar in our last game.

I still sorta want this but now I want

VOTE: Get a room: RC & Herrcombs

[RadiantCowbells]

thank you.

OK and VOTE: Room Bins/RC

[RadiantCowbells]

Postie is extremely superficial and is overemphasizing her whys and questions but not really pushing for anything or taking strong stances.

She's trying too hard to look like a good townie while not really being a good townie.

I'm not pushing for anything? I thought I was pretty upfront about my notscience scumread and the fact I want him lynched ASAP unless he's miraculously able to convincingly explain why one of him or Espe is lying.

If it helps, RC, here are my reads:

Espeonage

The_Jester

herrcombs

Apricity

Tere

Bins

notscience

Feel free to ask if anything needs explaining.

You even gave yourself an out on that scumread. Yikes.

You're acting like you have one hell of a big townread on Postie.

I don't. I just don't like when people are so sure about stuff without really having the reason to be.
I may be biased but I like when people are active and try to provoke discussion (especially that this game's been stalled by inactivity way beyond my taste). I've found Postie to just do that (although I have to admit I really dislike posts like her #241-#244).

Postie is extremely superficial and is overemphasizing her whys and questions but not really pushing for anything or taking strong stances.

Please explain what qualifies as a "strong stance".

Get a room: RC/Tere

get a room

It takes 3 votes to get a room.

RadiantCowbells and Tere

(R-0): RadiantCowbells, Tere, The_Jester

<— ROOM

Not Voting

(6): Bins, RadiantCowbells, notscience, Espeonage, herrcombs, Postie, Apricity

There's nothing towny about fostering discussion while not taking any strong stances or pushing any strong viewpoints.

If you dislike anything, I highly encourage you to join me on the wagon.

It's hard to know what deserves to be called a strong stance, but it's certainly not when you say "I want him lynched ASAP unless", and I'm further utterly unconvinced by the NS wagon since it seems much more policy than intended to hit scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, so many mixed messages from Postie's Posties that it's ridiculous.

[RadiantCowbells]

346 posts. Kind of like my choice specs Keldeo.

You seriously doubt? All I'm saying? "See no" town motivation?

What all these have in common is that they're defensive and attempting to self justify. Tell me, why should I or anyone else be interested in lynching NS?

[RadiantCowbells]

Please don't hammer or even L-1 NS.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Herrcombs

I like chocolate cake.

[RadiantCowbells]

More will come from me when I get a respones from admin.

[RadiantCowbells]

AtE- a) isn't a scumtell, b) is something I just do as being who I am, I'm an emotional player.

Fair enough. I didn't think it scummy per se; it just made me really uneasy. I'm finding it hard to put into words why, but I'll admit that on a subconcious level it could have had something to do with the fact Espe was my top townread.

Second- You asked if I would rather he didn't, and I said "not really." How is that a "nope" in any sense of the word? I'm trying to think through english but I'm almost positive that's not a no in the slightest.

I wasn't sure if saying that was allowed because of the "no quoting PTs" thing, so I paraphrased. Sorry if that changed the original meaning; that wasn't my intention.

And bullshit, he definitely without a doubt said he could push my lynch with that slip. I did miss where he said he wouldn't push it without further reads before, but he DID say that he would push my lynch with it so, no.

Alright, well, what I asked him was whether he said to you that he was

considering

using the supposed slip to get you lynched, so I suppose one of you isn't

technically

lying because: saying he could use it to get you lynched =/= saying he was considering using it to get you lynched.

Give me a bit to think this situation through. I still want one of you dead by the end of today unless whatever RC was talking about earlier confirms herr as scum.

So, did anyone directly tell this to Postie or did she hear it straight from Herr himself?

This breaks your post restriction. You're not allowed to talk about herrcombs in public for another (expired on 2015-11-08 13:20:00). --P

[RadiantCowbells]

I still want one of you dead by the end of today unless whatever RC was talking about earlier confirms herr as scum.

This refers to something that is not available for your viewing.

Unless someone told you about it, you do not know about this.

[RadiantCowbells]

AKA, who told you and what was the context?

[RadiantCowbells]

That doesn't justify your "confirmed scum" comment.

You would have no reason to use that phrase in particular.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok I'm back and I'm going to handle this shit.

[RadiantCowbells]

Since it's no longer a priority lynch at the moment I can spare 2 days of being able to push them to

VOTE: get a room: RC & Postie

I strongly object to rooms being made involving anyone who may be getting lynched, as this prevents everyone from discussing those people.

[RadiantCowbells]

The whole situation with the confscum thing is making me really antsy and I want the opportunity to figure out if there's anything to it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think I'm pretty close to solving this game.

I am, however, interested in speaking to

VOTE: Room with Apricity & RC

[RadiantCowbells]

All of my roomies are being quiet and there's nothing exciting to do in thread right now

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Herrcombs

More info in the morning.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh and I need a room with Espe to figure out this NS shit.

VOTE: Room RC & Espe

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait, I called you out for using me as a future vote switch and then you used me as a future vote switch.

Funny how that works.

You're not lynching me, you're not surviving today. bye.

[RadiantCowbells]

You are very nearly out of time, my fine kokiri friend.

[RadiantCowbells]

can we lynch Espe

everyone is begging me to vote Herr

no

[RadiantCowbells]

I want a response from Espy before I post my major case against Herr in thread.

This breaks your post restriction with Espy. You can't talk about him in public for another (expired on 2015-11-10 15:45:00). --P

[RadiantCowbells]

Just a funny note aside from my major rebuttal that at the time that I had "only had one push" (postie) I had been in the game for 2 days.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: NotScience

I don't like the way the gamestate looks with the Herrcombs wagon forming.

[RadiantCowbells]

Eh whatever.

VOTE: Herrcombs

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm getting cold feet. Bins, what did NS say to you?

[RadiantCowbells]

So Jester, Tere, Postie are all currently quite strong townreads, Postie a bit less so than the others.

I was leaning Herrcombs scum for the bad questioning that we discussed but there's something in his saltiness and the way he ended up trying to wagon me, which is virtually impossible at this point, instead of pushing for the considerably easier lynch on NS that he was already on. But like ugh because he DID put NS on nullscum which does permit a future vote swap but that would actually be very good scum play and I'm not sure whether that's really likely.

So theoretically if he's town that leaves NS and Bins, both of whom my read on is uncertain.

2 players are ignored for obvious reasons.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Unvote

Herr is still a definite candidate for scum but I'm not sure that's the direction that I want to go in today anymore.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean my issue is that if Herrcombs isn't scum I have just way too many effing townreads to know what to do with.

[RadiantCowbells]

Postie actually asked me who I thought was going to be targeted so that she could bodyguard them, funnily enough.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you don't want to quicklynch NS then who do you want to lynch?

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh goody I can talk about Apricity now.

So yeah, Apricity is probably the most likely person to be scum if Herrcombs is town.

She seems really guarded and afraid.

[RadiantCowbells]

Her and NS at any rate are my two favourite lynches. I can still do Herrcombs but I'm less sure it's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I really liked 323 and a few posts in my hood with Postie.

I won't lynch her today.

[RadiantCowbells]

I read one of them, she's a bit more forward in it but it was a different game.

[RadiantCowbells]

I still need a Jester hood.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol, let's do it. although I doubt I'll make much use of it because I'm already pretty damn sure he's town.

VOTE: Room: The_RC and Jester

[RadiantCowbells]

OK so what I really want is NS but I don't see Bins letting that go through without a huge fight which we can't really afford to have this late in the day so I think we're going to do this instead.

VOTE: Apricity

[RadiantCowbells]

Since I am able to address Espe now, I note that he did not respond at all in our room and so I have absolutely no read on him.

As a result though I'd rather not lynch him since it basically comes down to policy and I'm feeling Apricity and Herrcombs more.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't see him as acting really scummy, I see him as basically nothing because I don't have a read on him.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, I remain displeased with the idea of lynching Espeonage and would greatly prefer Apricity, NS, or Herrcombs.

I'll hammer it if I'm absolutely forced to but I don't want lack of activity in the last 24H to lead us to make a lynch that we don't want to make.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't like that at all.

[RadiantCowbells]

Apricity has 2 votes and is a far better wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

Which basically tells me I should be supporting the Apricity wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

Clearer than a cloudless sky in the middle of winter.

[RadiantCowbells]

Doesn't using life orb with fake out combined with entry hazard damage give Weavile an extremely short life span against bulkier teams?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, but usually Weavile's more hit and run and less stay in and throw attacks because of how squishy he is.

With fake out you'd basically only get to switch him in twice a game with SR up.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will still jump back to Herrcombs, but I'd rather do Apricity at this point in time.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm thinking that one of the major townreads has to be scum just from PoE.

Just hope it's not Tere.

[RadiantCowbells]

Herrcombs lynch wouldn't say much about Apri htough, but the opposite is not true.

I definitely think Apricity is a strong lynch today.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Bins

Tried to get me to open myself to a NK so she could kill me with NS.

Pretty sure both are scum here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Eh, actually we'll lynch this first.

VOTE: NS

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll give more explanation in neighbourhoods later.

[RadiantCowbells]

You told me that NS was guarding me and Tere told me that you told her that NS was guarding you.

So unless you're saying that Tere is lying to me you were lying to one of us and 597 indicates that it wasn't Tere.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: unvote

Bins, can you explain what the situation with you and NS and why you were saying different things to me and Tere, either publicly or in our PT?

NS I want to hear your POV as well.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, Majora's Mask Moon avi VS Annie, anyone have any opinions?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Notscience

I'd be perfectly happy lynching this even if I knew he was town after that explanation.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean really, his explanation is that he wanted me, probably the most generally townread person in the game besides Tere, to leave myself open for a NK... in case Scum!RC would self target instead of targeting the person bodyguarding me if I wanted to make myself look even more town?

Yeah, no.

[RadiantCowbells]

Your hammer was awful though btw.

Okay, onto pagetop.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, that's interesting.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well I'm mostly townreading everyone alive and was at the point where I would have speedlynched Herrcombs so I'm pretty glad he died to be honest.

[RadiantCowbells]

At this point I'm thinking Jester but I'm not fully decided.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm thinking it's Jester because my impression is that he's been the most out of the loop WRT what's going on.

I don't see why Tere would have chosen to aim a kill at me when she knew that Herrcombs was guarding me.

Bins and Postie were also aware of this fact, and I just get the feeling with these NKs that scum aren't really in touch with what's going on.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright, here's a quick list of a few other things that got me.

1) The hammer. Jester is, I think, the only player who never voted NS once. But the lead up to the hammer was pretty vitriolic and makes me think that there's already some bad blood between them, possibly in scum QT.
2) Avoiding discussing NS. If you look back to yesterday, he kept saying things that were supportive of the NS lynch but didn't actually support it vote it or push it.
He was also really big on trying to dismantle the NS wagon by pushing on Herr instead but without actually claiming a townread on him, unlike Bins. Here's just an example.

I'm pretty convinced there was at least 1 scum on Apricity's wagon. Since I townread RC and Tere heavily, it boils down to Postie, Bins or Herr. The last one looks the most suspicious to me but I doubt scum would hammer Apricity without hesitation, knowing that people are onto him. What do you think?

#) Then there's the fact that he's clearly spooked by all the QT crap. You can see it here:

That sounds awfully mysterious. I'm under impression there's much more going on in these PTs than in the main thread.

What are the pros of not protecting anyone? I don't see any, apart from saving your own ass from getting killed in somebody's place and that's just weak.
Also I think it's better not to discuss who protected who cause we don't wanna give scum any patterns.

And I thnk that scum who have something to hide would naturally be more wary of people talking outside of their sight.

And as feeble an attempt as it may be, I note that Jester tried to derail our protection strategy, and that was already a part of the scum modus operandi with NS trying to get me in the open. And the herr/NS not scumteam thing is something he's been pushing for a long time which has given him license to push away from NS by pushing on Herrcomb, again without explicitly declaring a town or scumread on NS. You can't really find a concrete read anywhere since day 1 but even that was roundabout and pretty crappy.

[RadiantCowbells]

It could still definitely be Bins and she'd definitely be tomorrow's lynch for me, but I'm having trouble seeing it being either Tere or Postie.

I think that one on one conversation puts scum under a ton more pressure and both of them have been extremely active and never really triggered my scumdar at all over fairly lengthy discussion.

Bins/NS have been a lot more reluctant to engage with me and I don't have the same level of townread on them.

That said, we can technically remove 3 people through careful use of the bodyguard mechanic so we should all collectively agree on two people that we think are town and then have the others defend them, forcing scum to use their kill on one person in particular and thus giving us 3 more lynches.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, if you're town, you saw my last minute peel off Herrcombs so you know my reads are neither static or unchangeable.

Is that a scum claim?

I wouldn't fault you if it is because honestly if scum is either you or Bins you have a 0% chance at victory at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, I could see Bins thinking I was lying to her and shooting the other target.

If it's you or Postie, IDK.

And that's why I figure Jester should just claim if he is scum because it's going to be an incredibly hard decision whether I townread Postie or Tere more.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm OK with all my PTs being released.

Honestly I thought the setup was perfect and wouldn't change it at all.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh wow, Herr was incredibly townie in the Postie/Herr QT.

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyone want to nominate the setup with me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Keep in mind that this is a setup where if you get townread early no one asks questions about why you won't die and town doesn't have any actual PRs.

I would love to play the setup as is again, town or scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree. It's really hard not being able to know know who is going to get nightkilled and having the top 1-2 town players being virtually untouchable.

Yeah, but the flipside is that if you become one of the most strongly townread players no one is going to be asking questions about why you didn't die.

That said, I nominated you for Excellent Moderation which I think more accurately lauds you for how much work you spent making this impossible setup run smoothly.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's very snowbally yes, but it's also snowbally against town because if one of the principal townreads is scum you get no indicators that this is the case and nothing tells you to change course.

[RadiantCowbells]

One idea I had is that the game starts as 8 players lynchless day to players can make rooms and sort out bodyguards but taking away a lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not sure I'd like the edited room mechanic nearly as much, though I understand it made an incredible amount of work to deal with.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was curious how different people would react to it and wanted to compare notes in post-game about it.

We should compile all the responses and analyze.

It's mostly just the fact that I like having a room with every single player so I can scumhunt individuals more efficiently.

I mean if I didn't have the room with Postie I'd have scumread her the whole game and if I didn't have the room with NS I probably wouldn't have realized he was scum.

idk

[RadiantCowbells]

If I lied about anything with the night actions it was me screwing up and not a legitimate decision.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd definitely play another go with the updated mechanic but I'd much prefer at least access to two PTs and I'd prefer with unlimited.

Perhaps a good idea would be to use two moderators and have one do VCs and lynches and one handle rooms?

[RadiantCowbells]

What about 2 per player per day?

[RadiantCowbells]

yeah, that sounds good. and yes, I think it's really important because this setup is mathematically INCREDIBLY scum sided for town to be able to communicate.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean we've established Bins's NS read isn't rock solid at all.

I was pushing that in this game as well, if I was scum I'd probably do the same.

Or I'd try to be even more rock solid town I guess.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll probably vote Herr if DL comes down to it, but I will not be happy if we quicklynch NS, RC.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I'm not here to criticize your reads, far from it, I'm just showing that scum can get themselves really far into town good graces.

I actually once got the cop inno lynched over myself in a large.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, but otherwise this is essentially 7-2 mountainous which is like 15% town winrate.

I do realize it, because instead of just having to be in the top half of town scum now have to be in the top quarter.

But no PRs + no NKA changes the ballpark entirely.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think scum were as far from winning this game as you seem to think.

If Herrcombs had survived and been lynched, instant LyLo.

Only 2 possible mislynches + no PRs makes for a narrow margin of victory.

[RadiantCowbells]

nuu setup is fine trusterino

[RadiantCowbells]

like I'll wait to total it till later but given that I had about 400 posts in my PTs and that's just one player we're talking about a town that had like 1200 posts of discussion over 2 days in a micro.

this game didn't go to town because of issues with the setup

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, but scum being forced to make suboptimal kills compensates for the fact that this would be otherwise quite difficult for town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd rather just make it 7p if it was really imbalanced because to me the point of the setup is that you can't NK heavily townread people.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you really wanted to introduce WIFOM, I think the best strategy would be to make bodyguarding compulsory.

[RadiantCowbells]

And possibly allow scum to choose which person to kill if someone was killed who was being bodyguarded by multiple people?

[RadiantCowbells]

That suggests to me then that a roleblocker is what you would really want to add.

[RadiantCowbells]

idk I loved the way the setup felt and I think if anything the best thing to do would be to take away a mislynch from town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Or just run it 7:2 and have town lose at lylo

[RadiantCowbells]

NS, how are you on that idea?

Do you think that would be more fair, so that instead of having to have one scum be in the top 2 or two scum be in the top 4 towniest players it just requires one scum to be in the top 4 or two to be in the top 6.

[RadiantCowbells]

Damn, I'm sad this game ended.

This was definitely my favourite game of the year besides maybe 167.

[RadiantCowbells]

/pre-in

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii wanted to lynch NS.

>.>

*cough*