Mini 493: Methodical Mafia - Game Over!

[Mr. Flay]

/confirm

"Vigilante" is also the classic SK claim, and I'm not sure how certain a gambit it is. Mafia Doctors are not unheard of, and would actually be easier in a game like this because they'd have less names to want to protect. If we get a clear lynch target D0 though, it's worth a shot.

I think LML's plan is crap, but if he wants to die N1... :shrug:

[Mr. Flay]

flay: what do you mean by vigilante is the classic sk claim? i mean i recognise the truth of the statement but who are you addressing? fwiw i'm not suggesting the vig, if one exists, claims.

I mean just that, addressed to you I suppose since you suggested the vig-lynch. An SK must kill (usually), so the most likely pro-town claim they can get away with (for a while) is Vigilante, or perhaps Bomb. However both seem unlikely in this game, due to how everything works.

Then again, a one-shot seems sort of odd for this game as well, so I'd be content with a vig-lynch target of LML.

[Mr. Flay]

Well, if the SK wants to kill our agreed pseudolynch target for us tonight, I'm fine with that too.

*laugh* Fair enough, I guess there wouldn't be much difference at that point.

So assuming we've in fact discarded LML's plan, how do we proceed with D0? Having people take a stand today might be useful for determining *actual* nightchoices, and it'll give us something to build from D1.

[Mr. Flay]

Speak English or Die, Lee.

I can't even figure out what you're upset

about

. So you really expect us to believe that Methodical Mafia includes a one-shot Watcher role? (I never said Cop, I'm not sure where you're coming from there). The only possible use for that role is to be a mass target N1, which, conveniently, you suggested RIGHT out of the gate. Forgive me if I'm a little bit suspicious...

[Mr. Flay]

Ah.

[Mr. Flay]

Speak English or Die, Lee.

I can't even figure out what you're upset

about

. So you really expect us to believe that Methodical Mafia includes a one-shot Watcher role? (I never said Cop, I'm not sure where you're coming from there). The only possible use for that role is to be a mass target N1, which, conveniently, you suggested RIGHT out of the gate. Forgive me if I'm a little bit suspicious...

READ ENGLISH OR DIE, FLAY

*sigh* Pretty sure I deserved that one... -- Jack Sparrow

Okay, that was painful. Let me reread, regroup, and hopefully come back with something more intelligent later tonight...

I can't think Glork would be so ostentatious about his randomness if he knew he was scum, which makes it seem more like suboptimal protown play. Still aggravating, for all the reasons Seol already mentioned (I can tell this is going to be a hard game not to "me too" in...)

[Mr. Flay]

Argh! Could we STOP with the claims please???

[Mr. Flay]

Mr. Flay makes me uneasy.

So assuming we've in fact discarded LML's plan, how do we proceed with D0? Having people take a stand today might be useful for determining *actual* nightchoices, and it'll give us something to build from D1.

Asking Seol how we should proceed is scummy and lazy at best.

What made you think I was asking Seol for advice? I was trying to spark discussion from the group, something that's been widely lacking (probably because it's not like we can really push for a lynch today).

Vampanzee's active lurking is noted.

[Mr. Flay]

VampanzeeHunter's replacement is...uhh, noted?

Actually, Simenon, you mention that I'm third on your list, but don't elaborate at all. Is that forthcoming?

CES: You're tampering with the fabric of space-time there, buddy.

distad, any more thoughts?

[Mr. Flay]

That sucked.

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

[Mr. Flay]

Eh? Context is everything; we were talking about what target to send a hypothetical vig-kill after. I never claimed to be said "vigilante", so your case seems to be built on a house of cards. If you've got more to it, lay it our, rather than cherry-picked quotes.

[Mr. Flay]

"lay it out", rather. And please do so.

[Mr. Flay]

Unvote: CES, Vote: VitaminR

for hypocritical bandwagoning. I don't mind votes

per se

, I do mind crap-logic.

[Mr. Flay]

Still out of town so my response is curtailed, but I will clarify that the "please stop claiming" outburst is a combination of response to two ongoing games, and Xdaamno's "...and they don't" post. It seemed to be confirming that he was a vanilla townie who did not have to send in a list, though that seems weaker in retrospect than I thought at the time.

[Mr. Flay]

As regards VitR, the question that everyone is apparently waiting with bated breath on is "Erm... what crap-logic?" - however later posts have clarified why he'd vote for me without ascribing to the dominant theory (more on that later).

In response to #1 from the followup post, my belligerence toward LML is real and goes back to previous games we've played together. Lee is a very aggressive player and I respond in kind, plus we have a positive rapport that tends to build discussion. In that sense, I'm sad to see him go, and wish he hadn't been quite so cavalier about outing his role and painting a target on his own back. Regarding #2, what else did you expect to do Day Zero except discuss how to proceed? Presumably the point of that exercise was to allow people to make semi-informed decisions if they had lists to create, and I wasn't the only one doing it. I think your singling me out was bad logic, but you're far from the scummiest person around at this point.

Unvote: VitaminR, Vote: Glork

who is unhelpful

in addition

to being opportunistic. Simenon would be a close second choice, if the bandwagon leans that way, for the already addressed SK theory and paradoxically for the fact that he

dropped

my wagon yesterday, after lobbying so hard for it on previous pages. I think this theory that I'm the SK because I mentioned the "SKs claim Vigilante" metagame is absurd. Give me a *little* credit for not being completely transparent, will you?? But latching onto that is opportunistic and counterproductive in my view.

I've scanned the thread since that exchange on page 8, and don't see any other specific questions, but let me know if I missed one. I'm still a little overwhelmed with catching up here...

[Mr. Flay]

Does this mean you think that the kill on LmL was not determined by truly random means?

I don't know what "randomly slain" means - do you? What I mean is that by describing his role, he made himself more likely to be a nightkill target, and I don't see how he didn't know that - even if we had a Doctor, two killers could have taken him out if they'd both targeted him. Why we had two deaths instead of a double-kill, I'm not clear on.

Glork, you have to convince others for your "knowledge" to do any good....

[Mr. Flay]

Glork, you have to convince others for your "knowledge" to do any good....

Silly Flay, what Glork says is law around here! Did you not see the role somebody devised where anybody "Glork" helped to lynch became Mafia upon their death?

Ahhh, that would be the Kingmaker saga? No, I missed that during my hiatus from playing, apparently...

[sarcasm]*goes to add the Glorkinator role to the wiki*[/sarcasm]

But if you want an explanation, it's almost entirely meta-based. This sounds like protown Simenon, whereas I recently saw scum-Simenon who behaved differently. I realize that won't do you or Distad much good, but it's what I've got, and I feel comfortable enough with that read to state that I think he's protown.

Cool, that's what I wanted to hear:

some

reasoning, even if it was personal/gut.

An SK who was free to act w/o making a list might be a good balancer in a game of this type, but I can't really see the appeal of random actions. But that's getting even more meta-, especially on D1...

That's because you weren't there, silly. Not much use wagoning someone who isn't going to post.

I can't say as I understand that logic. I said when I was getting back in town, I'd started to respond already, and it's not like I was going to disappear/be replaced...

Of course I see it as "counterproductive" to bandwagon me when I know my alignment, but that's unprovable to anyone else. What I don't get is dropping a bandwagon because of a *lack* of defense... I'm not clear what happened with the copy-paste error in the end of your sentence, but since the statement was made three weeks ago, why wouldn't it be "opportunistic" to make a case based on it when actual voting started?

[Mr. Flay]

You were the only player to do that.

I WHAT?

I would like EVERYONE IN THE GAME to target me, Night One.
...

The Roleblocker

should target himself in order for this plan to work.

okay i reckon we can turn this night start into a day start by using the vig's kill as the d0 lynch. i am of the opinion that this would be a good thing - although there are downsides the benefit is i think well worth it. thoughts?

This Day 0 is very important. This is not the time for Irresponsible Glrok. This is the time for Useful Scumhunting Glrok.

Day 0 is a huge boon to creating your targeting list.
...
Without the benefit of Day 0, then everyone would be forced into random lists, but we have information to guide our choices now, no matter how limited it might be.

We were given two entire weeks for discussion, so let's make good use of that time and get a lot of information that will help our power roles. Day 0 should not be considered a kick-back day that doesn't really matter because there is no lynch. Day 0 could be the most significant day of the game.

A formulaic approach to target lists (e.g. BMQ's suggestions above) will work better for some roles than others.

For roles that interact with the scum directly or indirectly (e.g. doctor, roleblocker) the individual with the role really needs to make the decision for themselves regarding what method to apply.

Glork & distad, I think Day 0 could be very valuable

if

enough players participate, both in helping us compile lists and giving us more info for the Day game.

And this re-read reminded me that you replaced ojpower, who had that mysterious confusion about how whoever is targeted at night kills. You're climbing back up my list toward a vote, Vit.

[Mr. Flay]

Because I've already found the scums on his wagon.

Good. Name them, so we have more to go on. Or is there particular reason you're holding back your suspicions?

Seriously, this day is fragmenting something serious.

[Mr. Flay]

Unfortunately, the other leading candidate doesn't strike me as scummy, so I'm not switching to BMQ. Anyone I've voted for today is fair-game, though, as are my own voters. I think this whole 'case" has been built out of utter straw, and scum are going to get through on a deadline because people can't be arsed.

[Mr. Flay]

People I've voted for are on each of the top three votes, which doesn't make me happy. But Glork is the least egregious of the three, and distad's third post strikes me way scummy:

Yeah, Flay... I have some thoughts.

I think that we're all just playing with ourselves here. I don't think that any of this is needed. The scum are going to come up with their lists, and a lot of that will probably be random.

The doc will come up with a list, again, probably just random. The cop will come up with a list, again, more or less just random.

Further, I'd be willing to bet that we DO have a vig in here. Stoof made a point of clarifying the rule that all power roles have to send in a list *unless otherwise specified in the role PM*. There probably is that provision in the vig's pm.

At this point, I think that we should just crack open a beer, sit back, get to Night, and then get our game on.

Emphasis added, obviously.

Unvote, Vote: distad

- that's three. I suggest you claim soonest, and if you're town, give thoughts on everyone still alive.

[Mr. Flay]

Unvote

- I need to think about this a bit. The combination of role claims and pre-sent night targets is warping my brain. Expect another post before deadline.

[Mr. Flay]

Now, by "second" cop, do you mean that there are just two regular cops, or were you a Deputy/Backup which became a Cop N0?

I'm guessing that we've got two sorts of Cops (at least), on that detects Cults (distad, by claim) and one who ... wait.

Stoofer, you WOULD reveal to us if Seol or Lee had been Cult-recruited before death, right??

[Mr. Flay]

Vote: Simenon

- I'd support a VitR wagon too, but both have been pushing for me something fierce today. More soon.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not crazy about BMQ showing up suddenly.

What I don't get is why, in a game with screwy mechanics, we'd have two killers AND a Cult. Granted, we've got two apparent Cops and a Tracker, but still... something not right here. I think the Cult thing is a red herring, to lend doubt to distad's results.

Anyone ever been a Cop in a Stoofer game (non-Newbie, obviously)?

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not crazy about BMQ showing up suddenly.

Maybe I feel the need to be active since I see myself as the most likely lynch this game, but c'mon now Flay.

Everyone

has shown up suddenly. Does the word "deadline" mean anything?

Of course it does; I'm just upset we didn't get more out of you earlier. I don't think anyone will lynch you before you get to make that final post, though.

Glork/Erg0 is very interesting. What makes you so sure it's a non-wagon, Erg0?

[Mr. Flay]

Going off of distad's last count, I *think* we're at:
BMQ - 2 (CES, VitR)
Simenon - 2 (BMQ, Flay)
Erg0 - 2 (Glork, Simenon)
VitR - 1 (Xdaamno)

Not voting: 3 (distad, Erg0 and Nocmen)

That means no one's ready to be lynched. I'd rather lynch Simenon (or VitaminR) than either of the others, but I'll switch to avoid a No Lynch, which would be decidedly unhelpful.

I know Simenon's claiming brainstorm, but that looks for all the world like "oh, I see what role he was breadcrumbing now", and that doesn't sit right with me.

BMQ: What you're probably seeing is me vastly over-extended. I'm modding like 12 games right now, and accidentally playing in four. I should be at more like 5-2....

[Mr. Flay]

Clarification: I'll switch to Erg0 rather than No Lynch. I still don't want a Brian lynch, and I think VitR will jump again.

[Mr. Flay]

Crap; that would be why someone said Brian was at L-1 earlier.

[Mr. Flay]

Unvote, Vote: Erg0

- finally got what was going on there.

I'd still prefer an extended/rescinded deadline, but at least BMQ is no longer on top.

[Mr. Flay]

Almost Certainly Correct

Vote Count

(before my post):

Erg0: 4 (Glork, Simenon, Nocmen, Mr. Flay)

BrianMcQueso: 2 (Cogito Ergo Sum, VitaminR)
Simenon: 2 (BrianMcQueso, Erg0)
VitaminR: 1 (Xdaammo)

Not voting: distad

About six-seven hours until deadline. Where the hell is CES in all of this?

Unvote: Erg0, Vote: Simenon

- that doesn't put Simenon in the lead, but it makes things slightly more interesting, with two viable targets.

I agree with this Vote Count! - Stoofer

[Mr. Flay]

Interesting night result; Xdammno's assertions about random killers and Mafia Watchers are put in a slightly different light, now. Unfortunately I don't see any clear pairings for him and the other (two?) Mafioso - VitR would be suspect, except that he started the attempted bandwagon on VitR yesterday during the march to deadline. On the other hand, that bandwagon went precisely nowhere, but I'm revising down my estimate of his scumminess today, especially since I was wrong about Simenon.

Argh, Simenon. Really irritating to have that come up as a Townie lynch, since the flurry of posting/voting meant that we probably dropped a scum lynch somewhere in there. I thought Simenon's sudden change of heart would tell us something once he "caught Glork's breadcrumb", but I still don't see it. The only case that springs to mind there is Erg0, who was ahead briefly and then dropped. BMQ still seems unlikely to be scum, especially in light of Xdaamno's general attitude toward that lynch possibility.

[Mr. Flay]

I very much want to hear from CES, BMQ, and distad (not necessarily in that order). I have a new theory but I need more information first.

[Mr. Flay]

Huh? I said BMQ was

unlikely

to be scum in post 483, based on Xdaamno's behavior. Where are you coming from, VitR?

distad: my apologies, I forget you'd already announced your N2 investigation target. I'm actually a little surprised Glork wasn't the random target, so that's weird (and possibly useful). Why kill Xdaamno at that point?? He wasn't particularly going after anyone useful...

I'm not getting anything useful out of the entrance/exit scenes. I suspect they're either flavor, or we'll not get it until much later in the game. Then again, with seven left alive, we COULD be at lynch-or-lose today (two scum kills + lynch = 4 alive tomorrow). That's disconcerting...

[Mr. Flay]

Mod

, could we get a prod on CES please? I'd really like to hear from him before I say more...

[Mr. Flay]

Bloody hell, sorry; this game dropped off my radar. Will post by midnight (hopefully by 5pm), but right now I need to get some work done.

[Mr. Flay]

Actually, my theory from earlier in the day is fairly easy to summarize: Xdammno wasn't buying the BMQ wagon from yesterday. He kept saying that over and over again, and there really wasn't any reason for him to suspect that he would die overnight. So in a way, I think Xd's posts can be taken as indicative of who he might have been protecting/distancing from. So my theory was that he was protecting BMQ, but I don't like that idea much anymore, mostly due to reactions today. VitaminR, on the other hand, might have been distancing, since he would be relatively sure the deadline lynch wouldn't go that way, and that single late vote was

weird

.

Nocmen, though. Anyone who perked up at my mention of lynch-or-lose (which is actually fairly unlikely, since it presupposes that both the Lynch today and both Nightkills will miss scum, out of seven chances) might be scum, and Nocmen's been pushing for "vote early, vote often" ever since that post of mine.

[Mr. Flay]

If yours is better, can I co-opt it and say it was mine?

I was totally enamoured with mine early in the day, but as time wore on it got thinner and thinner, and barely worth posting. My mad plans often do that...

[Mr. Flay]

There's no "gambit" at all to my asking to hear from CES. All I wanted was to hear from one of the few people who didn't participate in the slugfest at the end of Day One, so I'd at least have *something* of his to gauge against my theory about BMQ.

I like participation from all players.

I'll save you the trouble of looking up the "Flay is SK" theory; it comes from Simenon on D1, post 180. Aside from the Cop-claimed investigation (which would presumably give the same result for anyone, since Stoofer ascribes to the don't-lie-to-the-players school of modding and Cop-immunity is a common SK-gift), it still looks like a house of cards to me.

[Mr. Flay]

Erg0: Good point. Does that actually make No Lynch viable? If there are 4 pro-town now, it would up the chances by one that we'd still be alive tomorrow, but I'm not sure it's worth it just to get another round of night actions.

Xdaamno's vote on VitaminR in the lack of any other bandwagon strikes me as really weird, still.

Vote: VitaminR

- I could probably be persuaded to vote Nocmen at deadline, but it seems like he just made an honest mistake there.

[Mr. Flay]

Xdaamno's vote on VitaminR in the lack of any other bandwagon strikes me as really weird, still.

That makes no sense, even to

me

. That should read, "vote on VitaminR in the face of an utter lack of other votes on him at the time" (i.e. no bandwagon there, and we were facing a deadline)...

[Mr. Flay]

In 19 minutes? What changed?

[Mr. Flay]

Unvote

- I can't get a good read on this game. Everything VitR does that doesn't involve me seems sensible. Will re-read again before deadline, right now I'm hot and cranky.

[Mr. Flay]

Where is everybody? In any case, I said I'd

vote: Nocmen

. My gut is telling me neither of the other wagons is good for us.

[Mr. Flay]

Also, I think you should claim.

For once, VitR and I agree. I'm not pleased with the nonchalance at being the deadline lynch

heir apparent

at this point.

[Mr. Flay]

...interesting.

I am also a strong beliver in the power of cross-kills, and

that is why I did not pursue CES

.

Doubly interesting.

Why is it that this game has more discussion the closer we get to a death scene?? Yeeesh...

[Mr. Flay]

I think a and b are part-and-parcel of the does-the-SK-determine-their-kills-methodically question (I can't think of any reason for an SK to skip their kill in a game like this if they had to presubmit a list). Death scene evidence points to no, length of night points to yes. If they could submit before nightfall, then maybe its otherwise. But distad's continued survival as a claimed Cop is a big factor, IMO.

I'm almost certain that CES was not bussing a partner last night. Given that, I don't think he's Mafia, though he could be the SK. Lurking pattern would be consistent with that. Unfortunately I don't have a strong lynch-candidate today based on prior voting patterns. If there's another Mafioso, I'd have to guess it was Erg0 based on D1 voting patterns for the now-dead Mafia. Also, the fact that so many of out experienced players (relatively speaking) are still alive makes me think the Mafia/SK are largely inexperienced/don't know who's who?

Overall though, I think I agree with BMQ's plan, but there's no need to rush this day.

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry, had a meeting tonight, just got home a bit ago.

Unfortunately I have reason to need to know if CES has a Night Action before I claim/answer Erg0's supposition, but I may have an explanation. Sorry to be so opaque, but I think distad's continued survival and the short nights put paid to the idea of a freely-controlled kill.

[Mr. Flay]

Alright then. If I'm understanding correctly, Erg0's theory is that I'm an SK who is Cop-immune (distad), Tracker-immune (Erg0), AND possibly Roleblocker immune? Furthermore, I can make my choices on the fly, but opted to kill

Xdaamno

over the claimed Doctor, and LML despite his claimed role and the possibility of a Doctor?? Occam's Razor says bullshit.

Unfortunately, the truth in this situation is almost as bizarre.

I don't know what I do.

I'm a

Sleepwalker

, and I didn't get to submit a list. Each Night I wake up in front of a different house; Stoofer's been sending me that information each dawn. I can't really see a pattern, but maybe you can:
N1: Seol
N2: distad
N3: CES

There's some flavor about it affecting my health (doesn't specify what kind), so if CES is a Psychiatrist or something, it's possible I can become useful. Otherwise, that either died with Glork, or I'm just an Improbable Role... but I'm not, so far as I know, a killer.

Seriously, though. Erg0's case is practically predicated on me being a super-powered yet totally inept Serial Killer. He's taking absence of evidence (no result) as evidence of guilt.

Vote: Erg0

[Mr. Flay]

Also, since damn-near-everyone has an ability, the idea of two Mafia vs. an SK and Super-Town seems laughable. So I'm guessing if Erg0 is a Tracker, he might still be Mafia. Or CES might be the final scum...

Another possibility is that there was one kill last night because both scum groups targeted the same kill.

[Mr. Flay]

I should probably specify that, to my knowledge, I have nothing to do with the lack of result on Flay or the lack of nightkill last night. If you're looking for my ability to do something that would help explain what's going on, you're not gonna find it.

Well, hell.

I'm torn between Ergo and BMQ as final scum, but I think Flay's our SK. I'd still like to know who is after Flay on BMQ's list.

Huh? Ergo and BMQ are scum but I'm your vote? Or are you using 'scum' as Mafia?

I don't know. At this point, I'm tempted to go back to the lynch-someone-block-Flay-to-test theory. If I am the killer, at least we'll know it. The question is how will other night choices interfere...

[Mr. Flay]

I'm torn between Ergo and BMQ as final scum, but

I think Flay's our SK

. I'd still like to know who is after Flay on BMQ's list.

Huh? Ergo and BMQ are scum but I'm your vote? Or are you using 'scum' as Mafia?

Bolding mine.

Aha.

I don't know. At this point, I'm tempted to go back to the lynch-someone-block-Flay-to-test theory. If I am the killer, at least we'll know it. The question is how will other night choices interfere...

We might be able to rule you out, but it won't really tell us whether you're the killer. A strategic no-kill would be a fairly obvious move for an SK.

Right, you still think the SK has a nightly choice. How do you explain Xdaamno/Glork's deaths, then?

VitaminR
BrianMcQueso
Glrok
distad
Mr. Flay
(snip)

If I'm your next choice, and BMQ's next target, I fail to see what we lose by trying BMQ's plan. I still say Erg0 is likely lying scum.

As such, when Flay mentioned a theory and noted he required input from me, the knowledge I had that there were at least 3 cops immediately sprang to mind. And certainly, if he had been a cop too, perhaps with some guilty results, then looking for a fourth cop to complete the ensemble is quite logical. I didn't see what else he could be needing me for.

Ahh, I totally see what you were bitching about my theory's suckiness for now. Unfortunately, all I've got in this game is the truth, weird as it is. Dethy cop would have been a much more interesting claim... care to tell us what type of results you get? If you detect SK, we could be golden...

Can anyone tell me why we haven't lynched Flay yet?

[Mr. Flay]

What makes you think that CES in particular is naive? He and distad have both had all innocent results haven't they?

Shit, I am completely lost in this game.

Unvote, Vote: distad

- CES I'd

really

like to hear what sort of results you get. I just realized all this "Flay is the SK" stuff is partially predicated on distad's result not clearing me, which would be a fair scum tactic. I'm also not liking the idea of

three

Cops...

I don't know why you didn't get a result on me N2. What did it say, exactly? Presumably you didn't get blocked unless it was by Mafia, so perhaps my lack of a choice is confounding things? Have you tracked a Townie yet?

[Mr. Flay]

Unvote

[Mr. Flay]

I'm here, I just really don't see any questions that I can answer. I'm going to have things to say regarding game mechanics after the game, but for now it's more interesting to see who is voting for me and who isn't.

[Mr. Flay]

Bah; thanks, CEScum.

[Mr. Flay]

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!

I'll have more later. Right now I'm ticked.

(good game, town)

[Mr. Flay]

This setup becomes very difficult in endgame, because choices for power roles always hit someone alive at the beginning of the night, so you don't even have to be that careful with who you stack toward the bottom of your list. Also, with three cops and a tracker, I'm not sure what Stoofer expected me to do. I had a safeclaim?? Sure, I could try to play Dethy with three cops, not knowing what sort of results they were all getting (sorta mod-confirmed there), and the fact that all of their results pointed to the fact that there was an SK by virtue of how they were worded. Plus a tracker who ended up fingering me by virtue of not getting a result...I think Stoof played "the Mod shall not lie to the players" a little too literally here.

I think town was overpowered, in this one. I disagree with disallowing scum talk (I've said that in two prior games, too); sure they had no reason to discuss kills, but a day or so for strategy wouldn't have hurt anything and would have lent a lot more credence to the "random/free will SK" theory. I don't believe this is a game I'd place an SK in again, though possibly two scum groups could work. Or if the SK

actually

could choose their kills each night, like was expected by everyone but me - I

told

you it made no sense for a freely-choosing SK to not kill Glork!

Still, this was my first game as SK, so I'd like feedback on my play. A lot of people had theories that I was the SK from the very start (for crap reasons, in my view), so I played to that a bit by being so WIFOM that you couldn't get a good read, but eventually I lost out to power roles (in my opinion). Also, I forgot about the one-shot NK immunity, but I don't think that would have affected my play any... Also, Lee sent me a couple of charming PMs when I killed him:

So, which killer ARE you?

I'm the SK, just like I said.

Looking at my list, I'm probably the one who killed you, but I did have to submit a list, so the 'randomly' part must be flavor...

Damn. You piece of shite. I had you pegged. PEGGED.

[Mr. Flay]

No, I saw that. I'm curious what Stoofer would have given you if you'd hit a Townie.

[Mr. Flay]

One problem with this setup that may not have been anticipated is that scum have NO effective way to deal with claims, since all their nightkills are predestined. There's no way I would have logically chosen to kill Xdaamno and VitaminR, leaving Glork/Erg0/distad alive, but I didn't have a choice at that point.

Also, multiple cops is great, but distad's result threw me off, because it could have meant that distad got "Mafia or Cult", LML got "Cult or SK", and the other got "Townie/not Townie". Or whatever... I'm just not seeing that as a safe claim, because if I'd said the wrong thing, it would have pegged me later.

[Mr. Flay]

True. I tend not to look at my role PM as scum after N0, so I'd forgotten that point. But I still think it was a tough game as SK. Trackers are nearly impossible to beat, AND three cops?

But maybe I'm just no good at arguing w/o teammates. How DO people defeat SK accusations? There's seems to be no good answer...

[Mr. Flay]

Heh, I meant to ask.

Stoofer, were we befuddling ourselves trying to figure out the order in which we arrived and left?

I was actually able to use that to throw confusion/sense behind my Sleepwalker claim, since it didn't have to do with anything else (I worked out logically whose house I might have ended up at, if I WAS a sleepwalker, based on those lists).

I guess I was just overly paranoid when two of my roleblocker targets died on consecutive nights.

Wait, so you thought YOU might be an unaware Serial Killer??

Honestly, I thought the Mafia

were

both dead (not sure why I thought there could be only two of them, and you a roleblocker), so I was trying to figure out how I could talk my way out of there being no kill once you'd blocked me. If that'd been true, you'd have rethought your trust of me in the endgame, I'm sure. But if Erg0 had killed...*checks back* distad, it'd have been a whole different ball of wax.

C'est la vie...c'est la morte!

But I've just recently had two of the hardest roles I can think of (SK & Jester), so I'm mostly just bitching to no purpose...

[Mr. Flay]

Vote Mr Flay

I think I see what you're doing here.

Hi Simenon.

[Mr. Flay]

Figures...