Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER


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Post Post #2200 (ISO) » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:54 pm

Post by Varsoon »

"Never underestimate the power of the pen!"
-Perrault,
Suikoden IV


VOTECOUNT 4.04


Reasonably Rational (2):
Firekari, Firekari
Klingoncelt (1):
wgeurts
FireKari (1):
Ranger

Not Voting (4):
Klingoncelt, Elbirn, Reasonably Rational, Suzune

With 7 Alive, it takes 4 to Lynch.
Deadline
: (expired on 2015-12-06 07:00:00)
Last edited by Varsoon on Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2201 (ISO) » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:57 pm

Post by Suzune »

It is one of my personal annoyances, defense but not telling people where to look instead. I mean, if everyone is dead set on you, the best you can do is attempt to lead so that if the flip is wrong then the town knows where to look. However, you offer no opinion to the contrary therefore, what reason is there to not suspect you. If it is not you, then who is it. Defense of yourself is not enough.
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Post Post #2202 (ISO) » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:05 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Cool. We will say what needs saying in the thread ASAP. Ideally we just win with today's lynch; however, we have to assume that one of {Wguerts, Us} will die tonight if we don't, so since we cannot be sure we'll be here tomorrow, we are taking the time to ensure we leave the best possible plan in place in the mason PT (so whichever mason is left can reveal the stuff we don't want to say today on tomorrow if needed), and we make sure we say what needs saying in the main thread, and then assuming nobody objects to the plan (except the scum lol), we can lynch and hope for the win and if we don't have the right person ... hopefully the plan takes care of ensuring the eventual town victory.
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Post Post #2203 (ISO) » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:05 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

^ <--- ~Drixx
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Post Post #2204 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:40 am

Post by FireKari »

UNVOTE: RR
In post 2197, Klingoncelt wrote:On Day 2 Blackest Magick got hammered while I was not here. I logged in and found the the thread locked.

What does this have to do with anything? Are you attempting to imply you had some secret scum read of BM and would have been on the lynch if only you had not been away??

In post 2192, FireKari wrote:
Spoiler: Every Kling to BM interaction:
In post 280, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 255, Titus wrote:
Hi. :evil:

Elbrin or
BM
, who is scummier and why?


Between the two, I'd say Elbirn. His play reminds me of Devil Elbirn from Midnight Sun.

Asked about Elbirn vs BM, Klingon focuses on Elbirn while avoiding BM.

In post 452, Klingoncelt wrote:Here ya go Titus:

Blackest Magick
(Xtoxm & Pokerface) - 5 posts, 1's RVS, 1's fluff. I can see this sort of thing from Pokerface, but where is Xtoxm?

Kinda fluffy.

In post 1248, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1247, Titus wrote:@Klingon, yup. Suzune Elbrin and Jeanne aren't conf anything solely because we had a communication method. They're town due to actions.

So LQ
BM
RR or Brantz, name your scumreads please.


What about Wgeurts? Did I miss something? I have him at lean Scum vs Ranger at lean Scum.

LQ, lean Scum, the others lean Town.

If we lynch LQ and he flips Scum that's great, but I'd like a lynch that gives us information. Although lynching LQ regardless of flip should quiet Jeanne down... that would be a plus.

Titus asks about LQ, BM, RR, and Brantz. Klingon again avoids discussion of BM, yet manages to throw a townlean BM's way by reason-less finger-pointing at LQ and calling the rest town..

In post 1796, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1792, BRantz wrote:VOTE: Blackest Magick

L-1 again.


Happy Birthday!

Fluff.

In post 1797, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1793, wgeurts wrote:VOTE: Blackest Magicka
Lolhammer 2


You could have given him a chance to claim.

Somehow this got removed from our last "Every Klingoncelt to BM interaction" spoiler.

After looking through the above interaction compilation, can you see how shady what you just said looks?

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Post Post #2205 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:11 am

Post by Elbirn »

*twiddles thumbs*
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Post Post #2206 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:08 pm

Post by FireKari »

In post 2205, Elbirn wrote:*twiddles thumbs*

Spoiler:
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Post Post #2207 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:37 pm

Post by Elbirn »

DEAD
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Post Post #2208 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:09 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Yeah. Sorry guys. We have two scenarios in mind, both of which, if Suzune uses her redirection tomorrow night, give us a 50% chance of having both masons live until a 3 man LYLO, if she outguesses the scum...but we do need a question answered:

Varsoon: What happens in happily ever after? Does the faction which initiated the cessation of killing lose or does everyone lose or do you compel that faction to begin killing again?"


So, here's the reason why KC isn't scum: Why the hell did she claim vig when she wasn't able to have two kills happen last night? WHY? It doesn't make any sense. She could have claimed any sort of weird ass thing! THIS IS A VARSOON GAME. There is no reason to fall back on a vig claim when she can't guarantee two kills as scum. Double vig also supports the multiple protective roles the scum team had...one bulletproof, one doctor who could commute, at the least.

It's also likely that, given the lack of resistance to the proposal wgeurts made earlier in the game(which, yes, was made while the scum was alone and thus perhaps couldn't have *risked* a lot), and the fact that Titus' scum list was 50%-75% wrong, it's reasonable to think that in a game this size, scum was within her town reads. Which...leads us to suspect Elbirn. Elbirn's role reads a lot like a vanilla cop for a role madness game...it's basically the only mechanical way to know when someone has "become" vanilla. Also, he hasn't contributed since D1 in any notable fashion. KC and Elbirn both don't have an effect on towns ability to preserve and create conftown slots, so they're both useless when it comes to creating a guaranteed winning endgame, which is what we're going for here, so both are reasonable lynches...but we feel Elbirn is much more likely to be scum than KC.

-With love and cookies and anything else Drixx wants to throw at you guys,

Cerb & Drixx
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Post Post #2209 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:18 pm

Post by Suzune »

In post 2208, Reasonably Rational wrote:Yeah. Sorry guys. We have two scenarios in mind, both of which, if Suzune uses her redirection tomorrow night, give us a 50% chance of having both masons live until a 3 man LYLO, if she outguesses the scum...but we do need a question answered:


This is actually my intention, to try to out pace the scum and keep everyone alive going into the next day beside myself. I have the sacrifice yourself role afterall.

I think your opinion holds some weight. No one has really been reading Elbrin because, myself personally, have just been working on the assumption that Titus and Jeanne chose another townie. I admitted this in my reads list. So it is highly possible he has been flying under the radar.
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Post Post #2210 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:25 pm

Post by Ranger »

I actually did consider Elbirn as a possibility for being scum.
My role makes sense along-side Suzune's role in my eyes. (At least I think? I'd have to double-check the mechanics of how Suzune's role works and compare them to mine, but I think we augment each other in a Varsoon-town manner.)
FireKari is who I am voting/blocking, so tonight if they're scum their options are incredibly limited and if not then scum will end up clearing them (or killing me) which is good either way.
Which leaves Elbirn or Klingon. Klingon makes more sense by play to be scum, and Elbirn's role would be an unusual moderator choice for giving the scumteam (why have the wall if only scum can use it?), but Elbirn's investigative aspect
does
make sense for a scumteam to have, and that has been something I have thought of being possible.
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Post Post #2211 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:33 pm

Post by Varsoon »

In post 2208, Reasonably Rational wrote:
Varsoon: What happens in happily ever after? Does the faction which initiated the cessation of killing lose or does everyone lose or do you compel that faction to begin killing again?"



I sometimes require that the scum team is forced to kill each night, but I have not in this game due to theme purposes.

I will allow for a 'happily ever after' ending, but only in the instance that there is a majority vote for a No-Lynch, followed by no submitted kill, followed by every living player voting for a 'happily ever after' ending. I feel that this is a thorough enough process and ensures that every player is on-board with the game ending in this highly unusual way.

In the case that the game does end in a 'happily ever after', I will count the game as Draw.

I mentioned 'theme' purposes; in Suikoden II, the only way to get the 'true' good ending was to insist on a draw with the antagonist--that the fighting was pointless and that true peace could not be found through violence. I wanted that to be an option in any Suikoden theme game I ran.
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Post Post #2212 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:40 pm

Post by Ranger »

Huh.
That's actually pretty neat!

...Too bad the scum this game really don't deserve a draw and the town this game really deserves a proper win, so we can't go for it unless we get down to, like, 4p mylo with no clear plan and no strong indicator for last scum, but I don't see that as ever happening, ever, given what we've got now, so shame.
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Post Post #2213 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:56 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

Klingon, Ranger, Suzune, Firekari, Elbirn: Everyone please refresh my memory on exactly what your abilities are and how they function.

-Cerb
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Post Post #2214 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:18 pm

Post by wgeurts »

Or scum just botched a claim, like Davsto did in a game of mine.
"
i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
" -
Davsto

"
let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
" -
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Post Post #2215 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:18 pm

Post by wgeurts »

He claimed vig as scum
"
i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts
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let's have 2 rules against wgeurts
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Post Post #2216 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:19 pm

Post by Suzune »

Sure Reasonable.

I have two one shot abilities.

The first is the ability to use Ascetic which keeps me from being hit my all skill that are not kills. This works for two night. The night I activate it and the following.
The second is a redirect ability that allows me to take all the actions another player would receive.

If you need the flavour I would have to go dig up the character name for you. Let me know.
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Post Post #2217 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:25 pm

Post by Elbirn »

Are you dumbshits serious? Like how many times has it been stated that role has zero bearing on alignment, I pretty much have a pm from varsoon stating as such. lol no you are not lynching me on your shit simple setup spec it will never happen

And I haven't done anything since day 1? Fuck off, I pegged both of the flipped scum on day 1, lynched them in succession, and then day 3 has been *waiting for you to tell us what to do.*

Eat shit.

To answer your question

1. I write on the wall
2. I can see how many abilities a player has, excluding factional abilities (i.e. scum pt) and how many shots are left of said abilities

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Post Post #2218 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:33 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

I agree that role has zero bearing on alignment. However, there are more factors than just your role in play here. There's a very small pool of people I find are possibly scum, and you're in it.

-Cerb
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Post Post #2219 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:33 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

In post 2204, FireKari wrote:UNVOTE: RR
In post 2197, Klingoncelt wrote:On Day 2 Blackest Magick got hammered while I was not here. I logged in and found the the thread locked.

What does this have to do with anything? Are you attempting to imply you had some secret scum read of BM and would have been on the lynch if only you had not been away??


Someone posted my voting record. You have a problem with me explaining myself?
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
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Post Post #2220 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:36 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

I had a vig shot. And there's a commuter shot.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
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Post Post #2221 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:43 pm

Post by Elbirn »

In post 2218, Reasonably Rational wrote:I agree that role has zero bearing on alignment. However, there are more factors than just your role in play here. There's a very small pool of people I find are possibly scum, and you're in it.

-Cerb


"I agree that role has zero bearing on alignment"
*entire case consists of vig not making sense as a scum role but role cop does*



*slow claps*

If you're really so Gung Ho about klingon not being scum (she is) then it's suzie q or ranger Rick. Go for it.

VOTE: Klingoncelt
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Post Post #2222 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:18 pm

Post by Ranger »

Reasonably Rational wrote:Klingon, Ranger, Suzune, Firekari, Elbirn: Everyone please refresh my memory on exactly what your abilities are and how they function.
Sure.
I'm a modified roleblocker.
During the day, I mark a player. (I believe it's only one mark allowed per day.)
The player marked will be informed they have been marked.
This marking lasts the entire game. (Because it needs to be activated.)
I activate the roleblock via my vote: if I end the day voting a marked player, the marked player will be roleblocked.
...However, my block has a weakness; if the player targets me, their action will still succeed.

This is all from memory; I'd have to check the exact PM for details on the wording, but I'm reasonably certain this is an accurate summary.
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Post Post #2223 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:27 pm

Post by Ranger »

Checked my role PM. It is in fact one player a day. (Didn't remember a word in there which made it implicit.)
So the paraphrase in is correct. (My ability isn't actually called a modified roleblock, but it's described through text as such--substitute "marked player will be roleblocked" for "marked player will have any actions fail". Which is a roleblock.)
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Post Post #2224 (ISO) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:48 pm

Post by Reasonably Rational »

I said nothing about a scum vig not making sense elbirn. I said it didn't make sense for her to claim it when she clearly couldn't cause two kills. It's the easily disproved claim that is the problem, not the existence of scum with extra shots to use.

Also, what we have above isn't a case. There aren't any facts in it, other than klingon claimed something which it doesn't make sense for scum to claim, given that only one kill happened last night. It's just expressing why we believe Klingon is a bad choice for today.

Ranger, umm. :/ restrictions like the one you just mentioned really shouldn't be mentioned. :(

The critical part for me was that the block occurs if your voting them at the end of the day. Clarify with Varsoon please on whether or not the block still happens if you are lynched that day, with your vote on someone you've marked.

-Cerb
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