Mini 1742: game over

[Albert B. Rampage]

are you just super free with townreads then?

What?

[mykonian]

votecount

Wickan (3): JohnnyFarrar, Frozen Angel, ICEninja
Titus (2): Taly, RadiantCowbells
ICEninja (2): Albert B. Rampage, Titus
Albert B. Rampage (1): talah
JohnnyFarrar (1): A Simple Plan
Taly (1): Wickan

not voting (0):

[JohnnyFarrar]

Talah "I don't have time to answer right now" then proceeds to write a wall the size of the entire mini normal queue thread.

This doesn't sound like town but you called him derptown

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's irrelevent to alignment.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Then why'd you point it out?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't think it's alignment indicative, but you do. What does that say about you?

[JohnnyFarrar]

No really why'd you point it out?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Guess we're done with that conversation? Boring. Who else is around?

[Taly]

While you completely disregard any attempt to talk to me about why Ice or RC is a good wagon to pursue - AND answer any fucking question that I have. But that's not the icing on the cake

See prior post.

You think Ice and RC are being inconsistent, not open, and/or not transparent?

OK, that took too long to get out of you - but I understand where you're coming from now. I'm nulltown on RC until he provides more content - but the general vibe I'm getting from him in this game, wasn't like last game... Last game he was very gung ho on whatever he was set to do, and did so in a very twisted way.... I don't see any agenda like the being imposed here. That's where the town feel I'm getting from RC originates from. Plus, I've seen town RC several times... RC seems consistent, know that it is RC.

Ice... I already agreed with the idea that he goes have an agenda. I don't agree with the Wickan wagon being horrible, though... The fact that it has been the top wagon for a little over 10 pages is a bit frightening.... But I'm scumreading Wickan...

I did throw suspicion, and thought that RC was a good wagon to start - but RC was never a scumread.

Furthermore; why was voting Wickan such a bad thing? I was suspicious of him as well.

Yeah, that's not how it looked. Throw initial suspicion = scumread.

Cuz Wickan is town.

Change the words push comes to shove, you had the same suspicion level and voted Town over Scum. That's going to ping for me.

This is my problem with you Titus; you appear as if you think anyone who goes against your reads is scum.

I have no idea why you're so confident in Wickan being town, and still unsure of why your RC scumread is semi-strong even now when RC has been absent for life issues. Your reads are static.

I've never seen this level of confidence early in the game kill scum. And it doesn't help that our last game was where you tunneled town D1 similar to this and was scum.

I have difficulty understanding what you're doing, Titus.

Another thing - your hold rebuttal of me self-metaing is complete trash. You go from:

"Self-meta is kind of accurate..."

But then you just dismiss and say meta as if you dismissed the argument as if it were nothing. Yet you say RC and I are scum based on our interactions in our previous game as scum? 334 361 Which btw, is wrong - and that entire sentence was backwards.

Needs Rephrasing.

Basically, it looked as if you wanted to credit me on me being correct about my meta - versus dismissing the argument as "meta" and ignoring it - but then you did just that.

That looked very backwards.

Taly you asked for my reads and I gave them. Ice is scum and needs more votes.

I would ask if this was your only read... But you apparently think talah is town. But that's still not a lot to go by.

I've been told this by you and Titus over and over and compared to my other scumreads, Ice doesn't look like scum - I'm townreading him. I don't understand what more you're looking for, or what you want me to see that I can't.

If you're referring to my read on ICE.... I AM townreading Ice, and I've said that in 344 and have said that I was lleaning town on him for awhile.

Why did you think I wasn't townreading him?

Furthermore - why did you say that I'd DENY any kind of townread I had on Ice?

This looks like a calculated misrep.... Especially since you still painted my interactions with Ice - me saying our interaction as TVT - was an attempt to BUDDY him.

Why did I think you weren't townreading him? Because you weren't.

What I can't seem to understand is - People are throwing associative tells all over me, while criticizing my vote and unvote off of a wagon - and then twisting my questions and answers to have a thought.

Basically... I feel like there is probably scum between:

Ice, Wickan, FA

I'm tossing around Wickan and FA, moreso Wickan as the candidates - what do you think?

I can understand the whole 'Ice oldschool town archetype' but it rubs me the wrong way, I'm not understanding where his heads at, which bothers me. I do agree with John, it does feel like he has an agenda and that's why my read is torn on him.

Plus, I rarely hear town say something like:

"Oh, get over yourself"

Eckh.... Association tells aren't bad D1, but Ice has relied a bit on those on his reads which feels like he's creating a little world that revolves around who needs to be lynched rather than looking at his reads in an individual light. If that's understandable.

The thing that makes me think is - you put out a theory concerning that Wickan and I are scumpair, then Wickan comes in saying that I'm scum buddying you for the back and forth over my vote/unvote on HIM - himself.

From what I'm seeing - I'm being thrown out as an associative with several players at this point - and this isn't even considering Titus saying that I'm scum with RC and you, who you apparently scumread as well.

I don't think people see the how sticky of a situation this is - it causes all kinds of division and miscommunication, and the fact that people discredit me as "woe is me" and "youre a martyr" seriously makes me question their perspective in this game - IE, whether they have an agenda to push something as scum despite what may be presented, or town who actually wants to decipher between the game and work on it.

This is why I considered - and still leaning toward,

you being town

- and Wickan - being possible scum, for the inconsistencies I've seen of him - and the idea that he hasn't pushed anyone else yet after saying that my wagon isn't going anywhere...

I grant you that you said you were leaning town on him at the end there, but your opinion of him has been decidedly mixed. So to say "I am townreading ICE and have been leaning that way for a while" is disingenous.

So... I'm disingenuous by saying that my townread on Ice is gradually becoming more likely town and that I think he is town...?

But then you just said that I wasn't townreading him......

Why did I think you weren't townreading him? Because you weren't.

You just argued with me saying that I didn't townread him - now you're arguing that I am 'leaning town' or 'townreading' Ice? The nitpicking here looks fabricated....

That doesn't even matter, completely. The fact that you want to misrep and saying that I'd deny any my read before actually consulting me is scummy as hell.

Especially since now you're telling me to my face that I wasn't; and instead scumpaint me further by enforcing the idea that I'm only trying to buddy with him over something that happened 300 posts ago.

THAT'S disingenuous, and makes me think that instead of actually looking at other people to sort - you're only trying to push my wagon further by saying whatever you think you should.

Guess we're done with that conversation? Boring. Who else is around?

What do you want to talk about? I'm very drained mentally though, so I may not be completely responsive.

Wickan, Titus, and ABR are driving me crazy.... My read on Titus and ABR are fluctuating from scum to vague-town and... I haven't seen a post from Wickan that looks town since he broke away from me to actually sort other people - since our 1v1 was distracting ourselves... but then again..... he's pushed nobody else so far in this game with a vote.

Talking to these 3 are just exhausting me... and I'm not getting much clarity here besides the good chance that they are scum

But I keep thinking that 1 or 2 is probably town... Amount of scum is just a WIFOM basket waiting to happen and associatives are just dividing here... So I feel frustrated about this.

>>>>>>

talah, wiki me - just look at my first post game... it's where I was an SK. I won the game.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Taly you just seem sort of upset this game. Let's make boxes.

Box 1 is "I'm not gonna vote these people today"

Box 2 is "I could vote these people right now"

Who are in those boxes for you? I don't really need reasons, just names.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have no idea why you're so confident in Wickan being town

He's unlikely to be scum with Ice given their interactions.

[Taly]

Taly you just seem sort of upset this game. Let's make boxes.

Kinda... More like exhausted and frustrated, though. Not at anyone particular. Just a bit with myself; I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around some people these games.

This D1 so far is not an example of my most focused townplay. >_> I just feel wishy-washy when I know I should assert my pushes.

Box 1 is "I'm not gonna vote these people today"

talah
You
RC
FA

Box 2 is "I could vote these people right now"

Who are in those boxes for you? I don't really need reasons, just names.

SP

Titus

- Vote is on her.
Wickan

>>>

I could pursue Ice... But I think he's town versus who I've been pushing these past few pages.

ABR is just hard to try to speak to... I wonder if D2 would be easier - since we'd see flips then. But I wouldn't mind either way, though I wouldn't want to pursue him again right now.

I have no idea why you're so confident in Wickan being town

He's unlikely to be scum with Ice given their interactions.

Eh... Hmmm.

Idk; I've had some scary thoughts of Wickan and Ice being together but that seems very stretchy at this point.

What do you think of Wickans vote on me, and Wickans interactions with ICE so far?

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR is just hard to try to speak to... I wonder if D2 would be easier - since we'd see flips then. But I wouldn't mind either way, though I wouldn't want to pursue him again right now.

I'm getting more active now and getting more involved. We'll see how things line up by day 2.

Idk; I've had some scary thoughts of Wickan and Ice being together but that seems very stretchy at this point.

I don't think so bro.

What do you think of Wickans vote on me, and Wickans interactions with ICE so far?

I can see you being scum. Wickans could be scum, but unlikely with Ice, who I think is scum. I already made my thoughts clear about Wickans-Ice, don't know if you caught that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus, ABR, Wickan

I'm thinking it's 2 of those 3.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You're off your rocker if you think that I'm scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I swear you already said the exact same thing.

[Albert B. Rampage]

In this game?

[talah]

I digged this gem up:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=60469

Check my iso. I have the same discussions every off game. Still won.

Okay.

Despite my disdain at being spoon-fed self-meta I did skim through that. Your attitude at least seems the same but I do want to point something out to you (because it's how I'm feeling about you right now, and also Simple Plan:)

My last many many many games in a row have given me zero payoff. All the fun of it was sucked out by players who couldn't be bothered.

The response at least is hilariously accurate:

But isn't that how you typically play? (Not being a dick, its just im Pretty sure that's why I avoided you in the past)

So yeah whatever I'm prepared to take a gamble here. Also I'm home early and getting drunk, have to work on Sunday and fuck 3-week dayphases.

UNVOTE: ABR
VOTE: ICE

I don't suppose I can sell you on Simple Plan instead as an *optimal* Day 1 lynch with the spread of opinions as they are?

Also do you have a read on Frozen? Funnily when I'm called derptown I'm usually fairly accurate with early reads. When I'm called scum I'm usually completely wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

the fuck are people doing voting Ice

[Albert B. Rampage]

So yeah whatever I'm prepared to take a gamble here.

Fair enough lol, we can work together for sure.

[talah]

Sorry to interrupt your conversation - please continue, it was nice.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wickan get your vote on Ice.

[ICEninja]

Yeah this day is getting pointless. Things are being said over and over again. A couple of people have attempted to interact with me, but most of it just looks like repeated stuff, rehashing, etc. that's starting to drown us in circular logic. I'm finding it harder and harder to not skim at this point.

I need a show of hands.

Everyone, please

. Who ABSOLUTELY REFUSES to vote Wickan today? Who, regardless of it being your preference or not, is

at least

ALRIGHT seeing Wickan lynched today? My vote has been parked on this dude for well over 10 pages now and I've got a pretty strong read for a day 1 read.

I'm fine voting Titus if I can't get a few more votes on Wickan. Barring those two, I'm not particularly happy with any lynch, but in order to avoid a NL I'd vote Simple Plan, ABR, maybe FA? I'm townreading talah and Johnny, and leaning town on RC and Taly.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why do you keep talking about no lynching as if that's even in the realm of possibility? Everyone is voting. This is one of the most active towns I've seen, the reading is dense, people are mostly engaged. There's no way we are going to NL. Vote who you think is scum, period. This game just started.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wickan, talah, Titus, and me vs. ICE, RC, Taly

Is this the gist of how today is gonna go?