Mini 1748: ClownTardis Mafia - GAME OVER!

[Rob14]

Pers and Dav can't be scum together due to a recent meta tell from Pers. I will not disclose the tell, because I expect it will continue to be useful in the future. It's a definitive tell.

just an interesting fyi

Now I'm trying to figure out who should keep my scumread. Leaning Pers. Can someone I trust (Ari/Kittehs/Adaptive) confirm whether Dav's meta of being extremely slow Day 1 is legit?

[KuroiXHF]

1. If I'm missing something, please point it to me, but I think I remember what you're referring to me but he never seemed of having circular reasoning. Perhaps it sounded circular because it made logical sense - that phrase, "It's come full circle."

2. I don't mean to come across as rude, but it might help if you stopped acting emotional in all your games. If you see yourself getting worked up, take a deep breath. Before you post, ask yourself if there's a better way to phrase it. There are more effective ways to phrase something in most cases.

3. I never said your language was alignment indicative. In fact, I said I wasn't judging your language

wasn't

being used to judge your scumminess. I stated that because you've gotten a lot of crap and it may be because it is often difficult to read the message you're trying to convey. (I don't want to go too far off topic, but what are your other three languages?)

4. Your mental illness isn't really indicative of scum, but it makes things a hell of a lot harder. I don't want to be a dick and vote you because of something about you personally. (#433 I've mentioned I don't want games to be personal.) I gave my view and I've done a lot reading through the game and gathering my thoughts. Right now, I have what I have. I'm sure people would have questions for me and we would discuss them. What do you know? Someone asked me.

My thoughts on Persival were mostly derived by his interactions with you, but also by the rest of the town. He seemed to be very transparent.

And no, I don't have a concrete lynch-list, but I did mention who I find more scummy than others. I wanted to, and still might vote for Not_Mafia, but I have the worst feelings about Rob13 based on his style of playing and many of his comments.

@Persival - I know, but when it comes to day one, I go with what is most likely and I'd estimate it's about a nickel or a dime on every dollar for the mafia who intentionally get themselves in hot water.

1 - what about you ISO me and find that loop?

2 - Its me, everywhere. Its my way of living. a little hard to change. Thx for the advise btw.

anything else you want me to answer?

Posts 308-313, especially 308.

A vote is not pressure asking questions is

I disagree. I feel a lot more pressured with a lot of votes rather than a lot of questions.

Prodge. I'll do some shit some time today when I have time and it's not 9AM.

Bullshit. You made half a dozen posts in other threads over the course of the next hour.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Davsto

Because reading like 9 pages is really convenient and quick, amirite?

I prioritise some games over others. This is low on my list right now. Give me some goddamn space.

I'm not liking this post. It's either sounding like something scum or people who are content with being inactive would say. Either way, it's something we don't need any of. I completely understanding prioritization. However, with that said, every game you play needs to be given the time and attention it deserves. If you don't have the time for four games, play three. If you don't have enough for three, play two. If you don't have enough for two, play one. If you don't have enough time for one mafia game, then don't play.

I'm not sure who's Mafia, but I do know that given the fact you're scummy with a strong hint of carelessness for the game, I'm going to UNVOTE: Rob13 and VOTE: Davsto.

Prodging to say that I still like Rob better than Persivul.

Also is it just me or do Kuroi's posts on page 18 seem a bit...coached? It's a marked change from the rest of his ISO! I mean, the posts still aren't all that great but it looks kind of like someone went through and said "here i'll help here are some bullet points for you to cover now go talk about them".

Rob13: I'm getting a scummy vibe off him. I'd label him slightly scum at this moment.
Persivul: I'm getting a town read off him.
Frozen Angel: I was going to say slightly scum, until she started mentioning mental illness. I hate reading things like this because when we mention medical disorders or anything like that, it detracts from the game and makes the game more personal. As I've been in games that ended it people hating others, I really hate seeing fun games getting personal. Still, in the spirit of not thinking of this game being personal, I'll put her in slightly scummy territory.
Not_Mafia: He's given me nothing to work with. Something he has done, however, was first saying that he was going to re-read the game. Then today, he calls Heap's argument stupid. I don't know (or really think) it's that alignment indicative, but it rubs me the wrong way.
Soren: Gives me a town vibe.

I didn't want to place a vote until I re-read this and seeing as I need to vote someone, I'll vote for who irks me the worst. To me, I want to vote Not_Mafia or Rob13. I'll keep a close eye to see what Not_Mafia says but for right now, I need to VOTE: Rob13

Which posts of Rob's are the scummiest? Which posts of Persivul's and Soren's do you like the best? What do you like/dislike about these posts? Just treat mentions of real life stuff as null. You say that you are nullreading the people that you don't mention, presumably including Heap. Do you disagree with Not maf about Heap's argument, then? What do you think about Heap's argument? Do you have a read on Heap?

Well, the first thing that pops out at me is your dismissal and deflection off Persival's questions. You also appear defensive and emotionally involved in the game. You also did do a couple of goal-moving posts, but I don't think you understand what that means.

It also doesn't really help that I'm a grammar nazi and reading what you write is akin to claws on a chalkboard. (I don't use that to figure out if you're scummy or not, but I find it difficult to decipher what you say at times.) I understand it's not your first language and I appreciate that, but it drives me nuts.

Lastly, I can't just "forget" issues like the ones you've posted regarding real life issues and emotional/logical difficulties. This is why I find you as just leaning scum. There are many variables and there are many opportunities to learn more about you (granted I'm not lynched or killed in any way) so hopefully we'll find out a bit more.

That's two paragraphs you devote to stuff that you admit that they aren't alignment indicative things. The first paragraph is okay and is the first real analysis you've done. Please cite which posts of Frozen's were goal-moving posts and which questions of Persivul's that she didn't answer.

Frozen Angel: I was going to say slightly scum, until she started mentioning mental illness. I hate reading things like this because when we mention medical disorders or anything like that, it detracts from the game and makes the game more personal. As I've been in games that ended it people hating others, I really hate seeing fun games getting personal. Still, in the spirit of not thinking of this game being personal, I'll put her in slightly scummy territory.

forget mental thing. talk to me. why

He gave reads on you, me, Rob, NM, and Soren...and all you care about is why he finds you scummy...

Actually, this does lessen the scumminess I have on her. Mafia don't want to have attention on themselves and especially when there's no reason to try to defend themselves. It wasn't just her in that list. ...I mean, I still find her more scummy than I do find her town, so I'll still keep her on my "slightly scummy" list, but she wouldn't be the first person I'd lynch.

This looks like it's saying something but really your read on her hasn't changed because you had her as lean scum and now it's still lean scum.

1. If I'm missing something, please point it to me, but I think I remember what you're referring to me but he never seemed of having circular reasoning. Perhaps it sounded circular because it made logical sense - that phrase, "It's come full circle."

2. I don't mean to come across as rude, but it might help if you stopped acting emotional in all your games. If you see yourself getting worked up, take a deep breath. Before you post, ask yourself if there's a better way to phrase it. There are more effective ways to phrase something in most cases.

3. I never said your language was alignment indicative. In fact, I said I wasn't judging your language

wasn't

being used to judge your scumminess. I stated that because you've gotten a lot of crap and it may be because it is often difficult to read the message you're trying to convey. (I don't want to go too far off topic, but what are your other three languages?)

4. Your mental illness isn't really indicative of scum, but it makes things a hell of a lot harder. I don't want to be a dick and vote you because of something about you personally. (#433 I've mentioned I don't want games to be personal.) I gave my view and I've done a lot reading through the game and gathering my thoughts. Right now, I have what I have. I'm sure people would have questions for me and we would discuss them. What do you know? Someone asked me.

My thoughts on Persival were mostly derived by his interactions with you, but also by the rest of the town. He seemed to be very transparent.

And no, I don't have a concrete lynch-list, but I did mention who I find more scummy than others. I wanted to, and still might vote for Not_Mafia, but I have the worst feelings about Rob13 based on his style of playing and many of his comments.

@Persival - I know, but when it comes to day one, I go with what is most likely and I'd estimate it's about a nickel or a dime on every dollar for the mafia who intentionally get themselves in hot water.

1. wat

2. I think this is the kind of condescending thing that scum are more likely to say than town because it discredits Frozen in a "we can't take you seriously if you are having feelings while posting" sort of way.

3 & 4. if it's null then it's not worth talking about.


I did have a tiny reason for thinking that you could be town after all but it would be anti-town to say what it was and it has vanished as of something in this last post.

--P

Rob first caught my eye on Post 44, when he seriously voted a guy who was ribbing another. Rob's comments on Post #217 irked me the wrong way. Actually, most of it was fine but criticizing me for not having a vote was just off. Granted, I could have contributed more, but for me to post so little but have a serious vote seemed like something to help scum. "We need you to vote someone! We don't care what you have to say, as long as you vote a non-scum!" seems like the entire scum goal.

I like Soren's posts on Pages 2 and 3, holding Aristophanes accountable. I enjoyed Soren's analysis on post #208

No, I don't have a reading on Heap. Not right now. I agree that Not_Mafia was right about Heap's argument being stupid, but that's not alignment indicative. As I've stated before, it looks Not_Mafia like scum because shortly before he wrote that, he said he was going to do some reading. He's still not return with anything.

Also, you are bringing forward exactly what I'm trying to avoid with Frozen Angel. I don't want this to be personal, and it shouldn't be difficult to see why I have a hard time trying to analyze the reading of someone quick to defensiveness. I'm not being condescending when I'm trying to express my reluctance to act on scum-tells of someone who is having a tough time. I mean no ill intention to Frozen Angel, and I think she knows that. - Then again, this answer is pointless, as well is your question. How is this alignment indicative?

[Rift Adrift]

VC 1.9

Persivul

(5): FA_Q2, Rob13, Frozen Angel, Plottin Kittehs, Shiro

Davsto

(3): BROseidon, Adaptive Heap, KuroiXHF

Rob13

(2): Not_Mafia, Davsto

Shiro

(1): Persivul

Frozen Angel

(1): Aristophanes

FA_Q2

(1): Soren

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: January 5, Noon US Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2016-01-05 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

[Rift Adrift]

BROseidon has been prodded.

[BROseidon]

Ugh I'm really not feeling ~passionate~ this game.

I guess I'll catch up tonight.

[BROseidon]

and I like to see shiro around so no , I won't change my vote atm

^Really like this, btw. Shiro's content (rather, lack thereof) did minorly ping me, but I'm not familiar enough with Shiro for it to actually be a proper scumread.

We really need to organise some sort of wording to differentiate between referring to The Doctor (character) and a Doctor (protecting role). I know it's not canonically correct, but let's refer to The Doctor (character) as "Doctor Who" all the time, to avoid confusion with the protective role Doctor. Sound good?

talah may prefer to behave in this hydra.

I on the other hand hold little inhibitions.

VOTE: Davsto.

mastin your entire entrance is giving me Anything Goes heebie-jeebies :/

[BROseidon]

Broseiden is someone who I really like to have a conversation with actually atm. he is inside the lurkers category.

Huh, that's interesting...

[BROseidon]

Assuming I am correct it would mean that eithe rRob and Angel are scum together with Persi in sight as a target OR that Persi is scum.

so shiro your here at last trying to find the scum team with your first vote.

if Persi by any chance flips town your my next target.

whats your read on every one else? What makes you think there is a scum in our conversation with persi?

I like you!

[BROseidon]

P-edit: I thought at the time that the Davsto wagon was hitting resistance because he was scum. No-one publicly said they had a town-read on Davsto iirc, so that option is highly unlikely. That wagon just kind of went caput for no reason.

This is a p. good point.

[BROseidon]

Currently Frozen and I combined have more posts than everyone else combined.

Dude, chill the fuck out.

Have you ever stopped to consider that too many posts can be bad?

[BROseidon]

Pers and Dav can't be scum together due to a recent meta tell from Pers. I will not disclose the tell, because I expect it will continue to be useful in the future. It's a definitive tell.

I kind of want to believe you here but I really want to call them scum together.

[BROseidon]

I still kind of want to do Davsto, but really anything outside of {Kittehs/Rob/Elsa/NotMaf/Kuroi} is cool with me.

[Aristophanes]

Very possible Pers/Kuroi scumteam. Noted.
This jump into Davsto while having stronger cases elsewhere is bad and creates a viable counterwagon to Pers.

Also, please try not to quote such large posts. It makes the game harder to follow. Quote bits or link the Orig post. Thanks!
VOTE: Kuroi

Do you have any actual case on Davsto?

[Aristophanes]

Pers, I haven't ignored your call for quotes, just have not had time. I shall though, if you still would like.

[Aristophanes]

I still kind of want to do Davsto, but really anything outside of {Kittehs/Rob/Elsa/NotMaf/Kuroi} is cool with me.

Why none of this group?

[Frozen Angel]

Hello!

Huh, that's interesting...

Whats interesting about it?

[Frozen Angel]

Posts 308-313, especially 308.

308 wan't my post and there is no question there. what do youwant me to answer for?


I never changed my goal post. I just picked myself as example of his not-trying to have scum hunting conversation with anyone and I showed why he is not doing that.

[Frozen Angel]

BROseidon whats your current read on persival and how you reached to that conclusion ?

[Shiro]

HEY ARI



Happy birthday! In Greek.

[Persivul]

Pers and Dav can't be scum together due to a recent meta tell from Pers. I will not disclose the tell, because I expect it will continue to be useful in the future. It's a definitive tell.

just an interesting fyi

Now I'm trying to figure out who should keep my scumread. Leaning Pers. Can someone I trust (Ari/Kittehs/Adaptive) confirm whether Dav's meta of being extremely slow Day 1 is legit?

I'll take Spot the Error in the Theory for $600, Alex.

This would have been a neat play if it had worked. Lynch me, then when I flip town, you have a built-in case to push davsto tomorrow. When he flips town, you merely say that you must have been wrong about the tell.

But, you didn't think it all the way through.

A person can only have a definitive tell about something they actually know. Player X can only give a definitive tell that Player Y is an opposing alignment if Player X actually knows Player Y's alignment. If Player X is town, he

can't know

Player Y's alignment. So, you should necessarily have concluded from the alleged tell that I'm scum and davsto is town. Instead, you pretend that you're not sure which of us is the scum. This is because you don't want to clear davsto, since he made a good case on you in 471.

How many lies are you going to tell to try to frame me?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rob13

[Persivul]

Town

Davsto

Lean town

Aristophanes
Plottin Kittehs
Soren
Kuroi

Null

Frozen Angel
Adaptive Heap
Not_Mafia
BROseidon

Lean scum

Shiro
FAQ2

Scum

Rob13

[Rob14]

Pers and Dav can't be scum together due to a recent meta tell from Pers. I will not disclose the tell, because I expect it will continue to be useful in the future. It's a definitive tell.

just an interesting fyi

Now I'm trying to figure out who should keep my scumread. Leaning Pers. Can someone I trust (Ari/Kittehs/Adaptive) confirm whether Dav's meta of being extremely slow Day 1 is legit?

I'll take Spot the Error in the Theory for $600, Alex.

This would have been a neat play if it had worked. Lynch me, then when I flip town, you have a built-in case to push davsto tomorrow. When he flips town, you merely say that you must have been wrong about the tell.

But, you didn't think it all the way through.

A person can only have a definitive tell about something they actually know. Player X can only give a definitive tell that Player Y is an opposing alignment if Player X actually knows Player Y's alignment. If Player X is town, he

can't know

Player Y's alignment. So, you should necessarily have concluded from the alleged tell that I'm scum and davsto is town. Instead, you pretend that you're not sure which of us is the scum. This is because you don't want to clear davsto, since he made a good case on you in 471.

How many lies are you going to tell to try to frame me?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rob13

Uh ... what? I said you can't be scum together, not that one of you has to be scum. You did something that, if you were scum and Davsto was scum, you would not have done. Plain and simple. Not saying it makes either of you more scummy. I'm saying it makes it impossible for you and Davsto to be scum together.

If you're scum and Davsto is town, you may have done what you did (or may have not).
If you are town, you may have done what you did (or may have not) regardless of Dav's alignment (since you would not know it).

But you can't be scum together, because you would not have done what you did somewhat recently if you were scum with him.

This is not complicated.

[Rob14]

Like, you're claiming I'm lining up lynches, but if you flipped town, I would gain no info about alignment from this meta tell so ... ?????

[Rob14]

Pers is really invested in making me his counter wagon. He's determined to paint me as a compulsive liar, but every single thing he points out just doesn't make sense.

Ari

: Can you consolidate onto Pers if you think they're scum together? Pers would give us info on Kuroi and I'm still not 100% sold on Kuroi.

Whoever said coaching for Kuroi: Are you implying there's daytalk in this game? It's more unlikely than not; not many games have daytalk. If coaching occurred it would have to be somewhere in-thread. Maybe look for people with highly similar reads? But even that's a big stretch.

[Persivul]

Uh ... what? I said you can't be scum together, not that one of you has to be scum.

Yes, you clearly implied that one of us has to be scum when you said, "Now I'm trying to figure out who should keep my scumread."