Open 623 (White Flag) - A Moment in Time (Over)

[Viva La Gloria]

@Viva La Gloria: Welcome back to this game!
My case on SS is mainly explained in #333.

VOTE: Titus

I don't like this way of voting. Not helpful.

Ok? So what? It's not helpful, what does it mean. What are your reads on Titus and AI?

No, it is not. That is strategically replacing out. It is not acceptable. Not saying people don't do it, I don't know if anyone has but I do know it's against the rules and ban worthy.

This is a useless conversation that does nothing to find scum though.

It's pretty much impossible to detect, anyone could get away with it. Agreed that this doesn't help us find scum.

Why do you think my predecessor is more likely to have flaked out as scum than town?
Like, why are we even having this conversation? That's maximum pointless doubt casting.

[Titus]

Titus, how have your reads changed since like page 2 when you thought you had 2 scum caught? Then later, you listed 3 as scum. Do you feel the same about those slots (please remind me which ones they were, I can't check your iso right now).

Yup.

SS rhazah ai

Reads haven't changes. Probably should have just sat and lurk derped instead.

Cakes wagon was shit and I see that the same people are trying to come after me.

*shrug* I am through trying to fix dumb. Either you go questions or you don't.

[Titus]

I also _REALLY_ hate Titus's interactions with Yonom.

She randomly scumreads her then townreads her again and says that she's doing some sort of mother hen thing because she's a newbie.

Really doesn't make much sense at all.

That's because you're struggling with comprehension of my posts. Yonom did something kinda anti-town. Scumhunted it. I concluded I was right.

[Titus]

Right in Yonom being town.

Lynch SS and Rh and the game is over.

[Viva La Gloria]

I really started thinking it's odd after he switched his vote again to AI again, not mentioning why he moved away from SirCakez. That seemed like he was trying way too hard to successfully lynch someone. He was basically using every chance he got to switch his vote.

How is he trying way too hard to lynch someone by peeling off the most successful counterwagon?

That doesn't make sense.

Now he has already been called out for this by others and he was able to provide some good explanations. But it's not that hard to come up with a good explanation for any situation. It seems weird that SS always has to go back and explain his actions. Every time he adds a few new details to his excuses, which makes me think he is making up a lot of these things. Example:

You call him out to explain his actions and he does.

Wouldn't you think that scum trying to make a false throught process would have a more static version of their past actions than town who had a more fluid thought process that they didn't necessarily get across the first time exactly as they meant it?

Thats a lot of new details that he hadn't described before. Yes it makes sense that he thought someone else was scummier, but did he totally forget that he had voted for someone else before? Didn't it seem odd to him to switch his vote without any hint on the previous vote? I personally feel like I'd need to justify the change. It seems like he was too busy focusing on the new person to notice this though, lol. Which makes me question if he actually compared the person he was voting with the older suspects. Which makes me wonder how much thought he puts into his votes and if he knows the implications of a mislynch.

Like, so what?

Why can't he switch from a less likely scumspect to a more likely scumspect? Do you disagree with the authenticity of his explanation for the read change? If so, why?

[Something_Smart]

What would everyone's opinions be of an EE wagon? I'd prefer that to SirCakez, because I have given my reasons for voting SirCakez but this is starting to feel more and more like a mislynch. I'm trying not to tunnel too badly here.

[AlwaysInnocent]

What would everyone's opinions be of an EE wagon? I'd prefer that to SirCakez, because I have given my reasons for voting SirCakez but this is starting to feel more and more like a mislynch. I'm trying not to tunnel too badly here.

I appreciate the way you don't tunnel people. It sounds authentic.

[AlwaysInnocent]

No, a Titus or TheCow wagon is probably better.

[Yonom]

Why do you think my predecessor is more likely to have flaked out as scum than town?
Like, why are we even having this conversation? That's maximum pointless doubt casting.

Agreed that this doesn't help us find scum.

I had a thought that this might help us, but after reading what Cerb said, I concluded that it's better to not meta the reasoning behind people's leaves. I don't think your predecessor is more likely to be scum.

My thoughts on AI are summarized in #455 (related to #451)

I don't have much to say about Titus (too busy to analyse her posts rn).

PEdit:
It seems odd that he has been trying to move votes this often and basically abandoning his earlier votes. I think it is odd.

Wouldn't you think that scum trying to make a false throught process would have a more static version of their past actions than town who had a more fluid thought process that they didn't necessarily get across the first time exactly as they meant it?

You might be right. However, SS's explanations haven't convinced me that he belongs to town.

He also keeps looking left and right to find things to complain, usually with very poor logic. I recommend you to look at his accusations on AI (especially the most recent ones) to see what I mean.

Do you disagree with the authenticity of his explanation for the read change? If so, why?

Yes because he has abandoned previous reads weirdly. He later has told us that his reads on the previous votes are still valid and he just has found a scummier person, but I believe that this explanation can also come from a scum.

[SirCakez]

Titus has Fire not changed your read on the slot at all?
I don't want to wagon Titus or EE today.

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus has Fire not changed your read on the slot at all?
I don't want to wagon Titus or EE today.

Did you read any of my last posts?

[SirCakez]

Yeah I did. I still think Titus is town right now.

[Viva La Gloria]

Going to reread Sircakez because his objection to her wagon, the counterwagon argument, and the fact that maybe she doesn't want to stick her neck out too hard defending a buddy suggests they might be scumpartners. I was townreading the slot on first read though.

[SirCakez]

Why is townreading Titus scummy?

[Viva La Gloria]

Townreading Titus in and of itself is not scummy.

You have given no explanation of why you're townreading her and her behaviour around your wagon has been odd to say the least.

I thought she was WKing you but I may have been wrong.

[SirCakez]

Because I like her reads and she's not doing anything scummy?

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus and SirCakez both voted SS in RVS and have kept their votes there the entire game.

That strikes me as somewhat odd.

Because I like her reads and she's not doing anything scummy?

How is her flagrant lack of scumhunting, inconsistent positions, and weird 180 from scumreading to white knighting / soft defending of the Yonom slot not scummy?

[Titus]

I never scumread Yonom. I was suspicious of the slot and sorted it.

Scum caught in RVS don't become town because it would appease people.

I have hunted. I have two scum. White flag needs two scum lynched. The counter on obvtown cakes was just icing.

You can stall victory or get on board.

[Titus]

Titus has Fire not changed your read on the slot at all?
I don't want to wagon Titus or EE today.

No.
I agree.

[Titus]

What would everyone's opinions be of an EE wagon? I'd prefer that to SirCakez, because I have given my reasons for voting SirCakez but this is starting to feel more and more like a mislynch. I'm trying not to tunnel too badly here.

Distancing from reads.

[TheCow]

I want to see SS's role.

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus, how have your reads changed since like page 2 when you thought you had 2 scum caught? Then later, you listed 3 as scum. Do you feel the same about those slots (please remind me which ones they were, I can't check your iso right now).

Yup.

SS rhazah ai

Reads haven't changes. Probably should have just sat and lurk derped instead.

Cakes wagon was shit and I see that the same people are trying to come after me.

*shrug* I am through trying to fix dumb. Either you go questions or you don't.

OK then.

1) Explain why you consider SS confirmed scum.
2) Explain why you consider Rhaz confirmed scum with him.
3) Explain the full progression of your Yonom read.
4) SS flips town. Then what?

I also _REALLY_ hate Titus's interactions with Yonom.

She randomly scumreads her then townreads her again and says that she's doing some sort of mother hen thing because she's a newbie.

Really doesn't make much sense at all.

That's because you're struggling with comprehension of my posts. Yonom did something kinda anti-town. Scumhunted it. I concluded I was right.

Walk us through that because I see no reasons to see anything besides a scum 180 from your Yonom push.

Right in Yonom being town.

Lynch SS and Rh and the game is over.

So we lynch SS and he flips town, then what?

Why are we lynching SS and why are we lynching RH?

I never scumread Yonom. I was suspicious of the slot and sorted it.

Scum caught in RVS don't become town because it would appease people.

I have hunted. I have two scum. White flag needs two scum lynched. The counter on obvtown cakes was just icing.

You can stall victory or get on board.

How do you expect me to distinguish whether you're flagrantly declaring people scum for mislynches or legitimately scumhunting?

SS is pretty damn town and if you're as good as you're claiming to be then I'd be able to lynch you for being wrong. Burden of proficiency and all that?

And even if he is scum why should I not see this as a bus?

Your position doesn't make sense whatsoever.

What would everyone's opinions be of an EE wagon? I'd prefer that to SirCakez, because I have given my reasons for voting SirCakez but this is starting to feel more and more like a mislynch. I'm trying not to tunnel too badly here.

Distancing from reads.

Wait, so he's trying to find someone to lynch BESIDES his counterwagon and you call it distancing from reads?

That's so incredibly dishonest.

I want to see SS's role.

Yeah, don't take any responsibility for your reads.

SS is clearly a scum led wagon; that much should be obvious.

[TheCow]

I'm allergic to responsibility.

[Something_Smart]

@Viva: Burden of proficiency is a fallacy. But I'm starting to be fed up with Titus literally scumreading everything I do.

[Titus]

We are flipping SS because he's scum. The reasons are in my small ISO. Rvs shiftiness, vote telegraphing, and weaseling from his reads.
Rh has shitty rvs tell and the slot has done fuck all to change my mind.
Asking me the same question does not generate a new response. He was suspicious. I sorted him and determined he was town.
SS is flipping scum.


If a counterwagon will have no takers, SS must try to start a new one. Distancing from reads is more of "I don't think this guy is scum but...Le vote." SS is saying Cakes has scummy things, but he's town yet he DOESN'T want to move his vote. SS is begging for a more viable counter.