Newbie 1677 (Game Over)

[MochaMan]

I'm still conflicted here, because his one newbie game he only replaced in on the last day, and in that blitz that he played, each mafia member got a kill.

It should also be noted that he played as mafia, and participated in killing during the night along with some other mafia members.

[Ruku]

MochaMan - Town
Natsu - Town
hawkleader3 - Null
mykonian - Scum
tojam2 - Scum
jachawk - Scum

[MochaMan]

I'd like to repeat that natsu should sheep me if he indeed saw sense in thinking tojam was scummy. I'd rather have a partner on the wagon than a supporter off it.

Would you mind elaborating?

[Ruku]

VOTE: mykonian

The one post I actually don't mind from tojam is post 265 and that happens to be the one that mykon jumped on him for. I'm convinced it's a mykon - tojam or jac - mykon scum team.

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 2.3

tojam2 (3):

mykonian, hawkleader3, Natsu

hawkleader3 (2):

tojam2, jachawk

mykonian (1):

Ruku

No Vote (1):

MochaMan

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 8:00 AM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-02-06 08:00:00).

[mykonian]

I'd like to repeat that natsu should sheep me if he indeed saw sense in thinking tojam was scummy. I'd rather have a partner on the wagon than a supporter off it.

Would you mind elaborating?

not sure what the question is. Votes lynch people, vague support doesn't. I wanted natsu to put his money where his mouth was since he sounded like he saw the point.


Ehm, it's nice that you have figured out scumteams, ruku. It would be nice if you could explain to people why they are scum. I would be bussing tojam quite hard here, don't you think? Somehow this is the first team you think of and are convinced by. Just saying: "well scum bus now and then" won't do here, how are you "convinced" this is bussing and not a town-scum interaction?

[hawkleader3]

mykonian: null
Natsu: leaning town
tojam2: Scum
jachawk: leaning scum
Ruku: leaning town
Mochaman: leaning scum

[Natsu]

Just to answer some of the questions towards me. I voted Tojam because I wanted to see if he did something stupid at L-1, and to see how mykonian would react to it. While mykonian seems highly suspicious to me too, he is also extremely good at deflecting suspicions. His last point kind of makes sense. If he is bussing Tojam, then there is just no way he wins as scum. That makes 4 town and 1 scum after the night. And as far as I'm aware mykonian would be both my and Ruku's primary suspect if such a thing went down.

Updating reads list:

Hawkleader is now very suspicious to me after looking at his ISO for the first time. He was applying aggression on mochaman very early on, and is still suspicious of him at this point.

Mochaman seems to almost assuredly be town. Starting day 2 he has been prying everyone and piecing a lot of things together.

I think Ruku is town also. He seems to be approaching the game similarly to myself. I also agree that mykonian seemed to overreact to Tojam's newb post in 265. Tojam has been doing this stuff all game, it's just his character at this point.

Jackhawk has offered very little to the game other than singling out stray posts from people and scum-reading them for it. I don't think nearly enough pressure has been applied to him for his pseudo-lurking.

That leaves Tojam and Mykonian. If you haven't figured it out, my read on Tojam is that he is town. He acts clueless, but it seems really consistent. Mykonian on the other hand bothers me. I'm glad that Ruku is finally starting to notice it too. But I still can't help but keep mykonian in null category because he does make excellent points as well.

So I am scum-reading Hawkleader, scum-leaning Jachawk, and flopping around between null and scum for mykonian. I won't exclude the possibility that Tojam is scum either. I wouldn't be super surprised if he flipped mafia like I would if mochaman or Ruku did. So with all of that said.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jachawk

[mykonian]

ok, that's a lot of words about me and very few arguments why I'm scum. I mean I get how it works, but it'd be nice if you got your head around it as well.

jachawk is w/e for me.

[Ruku]

Chances are I was way far off on the mykon - tojam scum team. It literally makes no sense, but because of this I think it clears tojam.

Who do you think could be Tojam's scum partner? The only person who I could conceive being a scum partner with tojam is Natsu and I really don't think Natsu is scum.

Which leaves mostly by POE. (Natsu, Mocha - Reading Strongly as Town) (Tojam - Cleared by lack of Scum Partner), the 2 hawks and mykon.

I read through mykon and jachawks ISO and they never give reads on each other, have never thrown suspicion on each other barely even mentioned each other. Which I believe to be sketchy as hell.

My second point is the mykonian - tojam interaction. Tojam has been doing newb plays the whole game, but it's just now when mykon 180's his stance and now it's a huge scum tell.

Also post #282, where jac soft confirms mykon as town but without actually putting too much neck out for it.

[Natsu]

That's an extremely helpful post Ruku. I strongly agree with your reads.

Also, "jachawk is w/e for me" is triggering alarms. The biggest lurker is just whatever to you? I mean, sure, he is kind of null to me also, but why not apply pressure at this point?

[jachawk]

Sorry if I appear to be lurking, not so sure if I am the biggest lurker though .....
Here are a few points I had noted earlier ....

Some of hawkleader3's recent posts,

@ratsu I think applying pressure for the sake of applying it is only effective during a very inactive scum game or the beginning of eveey scum game

@Mochaman your two scum subjects are at L-2. Are you still deciding which one to vote on or are you waiting on purpose for a claim?

THIS PUTS TOJAM2 AT L-1

After his defense in Day 1, his posts seem to fall in the category of "need to show that he is active". Even though he provides a readslist, there is no reasoning in it and does not do much to bring out scum. Also, he has not reacted to some of the points made against him which contradicts what he held against tojam2 earlier.

This just seems weird and kind of suggests that he is content with deflecting the blame off of him without doing much to find scum, hence my vote.

I read through mykon and jachawks ISO and they never give reads on each other, have never thrown suspicion on each other barely even mentioned each other. Which I believe to be sketchy as hell.

Looking at mykonian's posts, I dont really find any of them scummy and as of now, I am fairly convinced he is town. I am not sure what you find so sketchy about this ...

[tojam2]

@Mocha - You say players, but it was a hydra, look carefully and you'll notice that the players on the scum thread weren't on the game thread.

@Ruku - Don't start a new wagon, although everything is pointing towards you and hawkleader being scum atm. Thankfully we're at a stage where we can afford to sacrifice someone to prove/disprove scum.

If Ruku is scum:
hawkleader is scum

If Ruku is town:
Me and mykonian or jachawk are scum

If jachawk is scum:
hawkleader3 and Ruku are town

[Ruku]

O.o

[MochaMan]

"jachawk is w/e for me" is triggering alarms. The biggest lurker is just whatever to you?

I feel kind of the same about jachawk though. A lot of his posts are hit and miss for me. While he was very lurky during day 1, and still is a bit now. He makes good points every now and then. For a while I thought Lia was right in the mafia being a pair of hawks, but right now all we can do is wait and see. For the time being however, hawkleader3 is at the top of my scumlist with no close second place.
VOTE: hawkleader3

[Natsu]

Could you elaborate on that MochaMan? I have hawkleader as a slight scum lead, and I definitely trust you as town at this point.

"Thankfully we're at a stage where we can afford to sacrifice someone to prove/disprove scum." Tojam2

My initial reaction to this was that it may well have been the scummiest thing said all game. After all, I already spelled out that we are in LyLo if we hit a town again. It seemed like he was just trying to push us towards that 3 town and 2 mafia outcome by offering up such a gambit. But after thinking about it, I think he may have just been saying this in the literal sense. Technically, we wouldn't lose the game on the spot if we lynch town again, but I think that would make things unrealistically difficult. I think I've already established how I don't want to see Tojam around during a LyLo scenario, or the subsequent 2 town vs. 1 maf that would follow.

But Tojam, could you elaborate on your "if X is Y, Z is W" scenarios? I'm not quite sure I follow.

[MochaMan]

"Thankfully we're at a stage where we can afford to sacrifice someone to prove/disprove scum." Tojam2

My initial reaction to this was that it may well have been the scummiest thing said all game. After all, I already spelled out that we are in LyLo if we hit a town again. It seemed like he was just trying to push us towards that 3 town and 2 mafia outcome by offering up such a gambit. But after thinking about it, I think he may have just been saying this in the literal sense. Technically, we wouldn't lose the game on the spot if we lynch town again, but I think that would make things unrealistically difficult. I think I've already established how I don't want to see Tojam around during a LyLo scenario, or the subsequent 2 town vs. 1 maf that would follow.

But Tojam, could you elaborate on your "if X is Y, Z is W" scenarios? I'm not quite sure I follow.

What I think tojam2 was trying to get across was that whether or not we hit a scum, we can almost certainly deduce who is and isn't during day 3, hence "if X is Y, Z is W" scenarios. But I can't say I agree with this.

Could you elaborate on that MochaMan? I have hawkleader as a slight scum lead, and I definitely trust you as town at this point.

I'll build up a big spiel and a harder look at hawkleader3 (and a few others) and get back to you on that one. (Probably within the day, I just woke up ) No one looks quite as scummy right now as he does fmpov.

[tojam2]

Well, it looks like it's down to Ruku, me or him, you can't dodge this one.

[mykonian]

Also, "jachawk is w/e for me" is triggering alarms. The biggest lurker is just whatever to you? I mean, sure, he is kind of null to me also, but why not apply pressure at this point?

you people and your pressure. It doesn't work if you don't mean it. I won't mean it, because I'm not too offended by some inactivity. Game isn't the fastest anyway and there are some players out there that do feel unnatural. So be it that one of the newbies watches more than he talks.

Tojam calling ruku scum is a welcome sign of life. Wouldn't have expected that to come from tojam scum, might still work. Think it's better to support the movement first, lets see where this goes.

vote Ruku

[Ruku]

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12

Also, "jachawk is w/e for me" is triggering alarms. The biggest lurker is just whatever to you? I mean, sure, he is kind of null to me also, but why not apply pressure at this point?

you people and your pressure. It doesn't work if you don't mean it. I won't mean it, because I'm not too offended by some inactivity. Game isn't the fastest anyway and there are some players out there that do feel unnatural. So be it that one of the newbies watches more than he talks.

Tojam calling ruku scum is a welcome sign of life. Wouldn't have expected that to come from tojam scum, might still work. Think it's better to support the movement first, lets see where this goes.

vote Ruku

I disagree with basically this entire post.

The pressure argument I feel is getting a bit stale now, there is nothing wrong with what he did, what makes you think he wouldn't of meant the pressure? The game progresses by applying pressure to people and looking for scum reads, it doesn't matter if at the time you don't 100% believe in the scum read because you're looking to get reads from it.

And you should care about inactivity and as an IC you should know that. If he stays inactive and hides under the radar the whole game there will be no posts for people to analyse and the only way to get him to post by applying pressure. If he if Mafia and barely posts all game and we're all fine with that then no one will ever call him out on anything because he doesn't post. Looks to me like you're just trying to defend your scum-partner.

So you're telling me that you're surprised at Tojam, who's being saying I'm scum for essentially the entire game with absolutely 0 reasons what so over and generally hasn't being making any sense the entire game; completely changes the wagon to me from himself once he's at L-1? I'd completely expect that from scum anyone. But he's not scum is he, and you know that don't you.

"Think it's better to support the movement first, lets see where this goes". HA, you talk about pressure and not announcing it then you post that? It's the least-committal bus I've ever seen. Tbh, it just looks like you're attempting to deflect attention from you and hawk(s). I'm so sure I've got this figured out. You be scum fine sir.

I'm happy to lynch you now.

[Ruku]

Whoops, the numbers came from line counts when I was transferring the post from my phone to PC! Sorry.

[Ruku]

Sorry for triple post but @mod could we have a updated vote count and a prod on hawkleader. Thanksies

[mykonian]

what makes you think he wouldn't of meant the pressure?

Because he's telling me perhaps I should pressure. I don't think I should all that much. Esspecially given my explained stance on it.

In a similar light, I don't see why I should limit myself to just being concerned about inactive people. It's still open to judgement. I think you are scummier than jachawk, I vote you in stead of him, despite his postcount.

[Ruku]

I never said you need to limit yourself, but ignoring them completely is wrong.

[mykonian]

This discussion was spawned by me stating an opinion about him. I don't think I am ignoring anybody. You are twisting the facts to fit your narrative.