Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[YT2980]

This is mostly directed towards people scum reading Rob but I'm curious why YT is only putting me as "inclined to think is scum", too.

That was answered in 1860

[Venmar]

Like yes we want wagons but let's not restrict ourselves too much ya know?

Yeah, I understand that. This was an idea that threw me from a loop when a player in another game brought it up. It does make it more difficult to analyze things.

Why the fuck would you propose a tactic that makes things harder to analyze then

[YT2980]

How could you view Titus as scum, though? Was it since

he

labelled you among the scum in his reads?

He

had aafter as town, looking back at it, which was false.

Titus is a beautiful female

Oops, my bad. I'm not the best with referring to the right pronoun.

[YT2980]

Like yes we want wagons but let's not restrict ourselves too much ya know?

Yeah, I understand that. This was an idea that threw me from a loop when a player in another game brought it up. It does make it more difficult to analyze things.

Why the fuck would you propose a tactic that makes things harder to analyze then

Because I wasn't thinking.

[T S O]

I'm not sure if I can scumread him for #308 - I see it as the sort of play that noobtown could make where he thinks he's being really self-righteous and principled by following the Wiki's guidance and deliberating over everyone in turn instead of piling the pressure on people who make posts that look like they're coming from scum. I was similar to that in my first Newbie game. It's no more likely to come from scum than it is from town, in my eyes.

On the other hand, #453 is an awful, horrible post. I am fairly sure that I did not remark on it much because I was busy pushing Dwlee - there appear to be a lot of things that I glossed over because I was busy pushing Dwlee. I find his conclusion of Dwlee being a third party difficult to understand given that a third party would likely claim their alignment in that scenario, and the complete dismissal of multiball as an explanation for the quick pile-up is also bizarre. As well as that, he admits himself that Dwlee's slip is horrible, but still somehow doesn't think that town could think the same and vote him, hence the quick wagon build-up? There seem to be clear logical steps that should follow each other, but just aren't there and I don't see why.

If he's town, then his thought process is erratic and mindless. I would still like to hear him speak about it before I decide where I want to go today. I would also like him to explain his reads while he's at it - they're probably the things that interest me most at present.

[Venmar]

I don't find Rob's posting very redeeming either, some people said he's gotten better this day phase over the first but, like, meh?

pops definitely doesn't seem town from his limited posting history, and I really hate his #672. I don't think #149 is a slip of having extra info, though. He's saying that Venmar was offering a misleading statement that doesn't even consider multiball, and that's kind of a fair point. He isn't speculating multiball, just saying it's not a possibility we should take off the table. I don't see that as requiring inside info.

#672, on the other hand, focuses entirely on people's reads on himself rather than the actual major focus of the thread since his last substantive post, which was Dwlee. All he really offered was a "yeah, I could get on this wagon" in terms of Dwlee. That's pretty bad. Way too much weight on defending something that was a non-issue vs. scumhunting. No independent reads other than reacting to what's in the thread.

On the other hand, I kind of want more than 5 posts from him before deciding he's the Day 2 wagon. We need a higher quality lynch than lynching a lurker here, imo. If he continues lurking, obviously he's not getting anywhere near LyLo, but I'd rather have content to judge him on.

Fence-sitting analysis of my scumread on pops at best.

VOTE: beeboy

For a few things:

- Seeming to have static rigid reads where new information was not factored in. I noted this with regard to his Dwlee town read, especially. A townie considers new information when forming reads, but beeboy was very resistant to doing that for a long time. When you say "A isn't scum because X isn't scummy" and someone shows you that X didn't actually happen, that bears more than a "doesn't matter", which is basically what he gave.

- His sharp turn-around on Dwlee and the timing of it. He drew my vote and people were starting to look at him, so he changed his read. I don't really get how the post he cites as being particularly influential in the change is actually that much different than what I had been saying all along. I consider it more likely that he decided opposing a wagon on town was becoming too costly and so he decided to just hop on to ease pressure than the alternative - that he genuinely had a complete change of heart after a dozen or more pages of rigid arguing where neither of us was giving an inch. I probably shouldn't have just taken that "victory" for what it was on Day 1, but meh. Something to consider about my play in post-game.

- His odd as fuck read on Titus. He said at one point that the mod didn't have a meta of using PRs, so he didn't believe Titus' PR. That was just weird as fuck. I don't know how he went through the mental gymnastics to hint at that causing a scum read, honestly.

Aside from the fact that Beeboy's reads aren't actually very static (as if that's a scumtell to begin with) and super random especially as of the end of Day 1, this is just Rob switching tunnel vision from the dead Dwelee to Beeboy to make it look like he's scumhunting efficiently.

Lets not forget this post he made near the end of Day 1:

If nothing else, it will be fodder for my beeboy read later on.

I'm kind of split on him atm.

I don't like his reads, especially the recent one on T S O, and I thought he was scummy when failing to adjust his read on Dwlee when new information was coming out. But then he did adjust, and it kind of seems like he just wasn't understanding what I was saying (which, admittedly, probably wasn't helped by the pure rage of one thousand suns). If I had to throw him on a side at the moment, I'd probably throw him on misguided town over opportunistic scum.

~ Which is, again, fence-sitting and a contradictive read since he's saying Beeboy is more likely misguided town than scum in this post. I could dismiss this post as Rob just evolving his read later in the game, but most of Rob's reasoning for voting for Dwelee in #1563 is based on what Beeboy did in Day 1 so, um, what?

For the record, I could find very little interaction between Rob and Beeboy prior to the above post either than #1166. If anything, his reaction is the most restrained/timid against Beeboy than someone like me who reacted adversely to Beeboy fucking up stuff like the fake hammer test.

[Venmar]

So I just remembered to actually check my PMs and read what my night action result was.

Nicole Mimi, claim now. If not, you're getting quick-lynched. I have an incriminating result, but I'm not going to say what type so that the counter-claim cannot be tailored. I want a full claim - name, role, and who you targeted last night, including result of said action.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS FOR A SINGLE FUCKING SECOND

YOU MEANT TO TELL ME

THAT YOU HAVE A NIGHT ACTION

AND YOU JUST FUCKING "FORGOT" AN INCRIMINATING RESULT?

nu-uh

vote: rob

Then there's also the fact that I have reason to believe Mimi's version of the claim.

[beeboy]

Aside from the fact that Beeboy's reads aren't actually very static

In what way is this true outside me going from Town to Scum Dwlee?

[Venmar]

Rob went so balls to the wall to tryign to allure his role without claiming that I think he should just claim at this point because if he's town he's fucking dead anyways.

[YT2980]

That is a gutsy ploy if Rob is scum...

[PeregrineV]

I would like anyone who

doesn't

buy the guilty result on me to explain why the hell scum-Rob would claim a guilty on me, when all it'd do is probably get him lynched the next day. And ya it could have been a legit guilty even if he is scum here, but if he was scum, with an info role and got a guilty, why would he openly post it and basically tell the other scum team to shoot him?

If you read his claim, it directly contradicts yours. If you are telling the truth, how do you think HE is telling the truth?

[PeregrineV]

So I just remembered to actually check my PMs and read what my night action result was.

Nicole Mimi, claim now. If not, you're getting quick-lynched. I have an incriminating result, but I'm not going to say what type so that the counter-claim cannot be tailored. I want a full claim - name, role, and who you targeted last night, including result of said action.

I would like anyone who

doesn't

buy the guilty result on me to explain why the hell scum-Rob would claim a guilty on me, when all it'd do is probably get him lynched the next day. And ya it could have been a legit guilty even if he is scum here, but if he was scum, with an info role and got a guilty, why would he openly post it and basically tell the other scum team to shoot him?

If you read his claim, it directly contradicts yours. If you are telling the truth, how do you think HE is telling the truth?

[PeregrineV]

stupuid double post

[Flubbernugget]

ignoring him? I directly addressed him.

i missed it

your posting is very vague

[Rob14]

04 Aafter (Professor Nakayama, Hyperion Corporation Compulsive Focused Bodyguard) Was Killed on Night 1

First question: are there flavor reasons for speculating multiball here? FTR Skull's last game had a N1 with 3 kills and it was mafia/SK/vig, so I don't find multiball on that reason compelling; however, to my knowledge this is the first time he's specifically included a flavor name with the scum flip.

When I say multiball, I include mafia + SK, but YMMV. Different people mean different things. There definitely could by Hyperion Corporation and Bandits as the two scum groups, which is what I think is most likely, but that's all speculation based on not a whole lot.

Interesting speculation. Last Borderlands game I was in, players were members of the gun manufacturers, and some of them were scum, while the rest were town. Why Bandits instead of, say, Jakobs Corporation?

Because I don't know what the Jakobs Corporation is >.<

I only beat Borderlands 1, and that was a long time ago.

[beeboy]

AND YOU JUST FUCKING "FORGOT" AN INCRIMINATING RESULT?

Although I do think Rob is scum due to his tunnels all game but my problem with this is the same problem with the Dwlee wagon. As much as this is scummy af I can't evaluate the risk vs reward in this situation to make a scum ever want to do it.

One thing I am thinking of is that Rob predicts that the game is only going to get worse and worse so if he claims now he can least deflect the wagon off of Almost50 but that scenario requires the knowledge of Almost50 being scum.

[Venmar]

I mean at the very least i'm not going to follow a blind "guilty" that I don't trust from Rob. Whether he is scum or isn't, I won't vote for Mimi unless he convinces me he isn't full of shit.

[Flubbernugget]

It means Ima let others do their thing and observe.

See I'm calling bullshit on this because by the time you've "observed" as town you just got vigged for doing fuck all

This is beyond suboptimal town play at best

[Rob14]

I still think pisskop IS scum. I'm inclined to think Starbucks/Nicole is as well.

Only inclined to think she is scum? Do you not trust Rob or something?

Rob did say there was a slim chance he was wrong, iirc. I'm inclined to think both are, I don't know for certain.

No, I didn't. I said that my role allows for a chance that I get a false negative (i.e. I can't be sure that those who don't test in an incriminating way are innocent), but a guilty is a guilty. It's definitive.

I briefly entertained redirection as a possibility since Mimi brought it up, but my night action result is worded in such a way that it would be bastard if I had been redirected.

[Venmar]

AND YOU JUST FUCKING "FORGOT" AN INCRIMINATING RESULT?

Although I do think Rob is scum due to his tunnels all game but my problem with this is the same problem with the Dwlee wagon. As much as this is scummy af I can't evaluate the risk vs reward in this situation to make a scum ever want to do it.

Maybe you should stop fence-sitting on every read I see from you?

[SirCakez]

I mean at the very least i'm not going to follow a blind "guilty" that I don't trust from Rob. Whether he is scum or isn't, I won't vote for Mimi unless he convinces me he isn't full of shit.

Why would scum!rob randomly claim a guilty here though? It doesn't make any sense. If Nicole flips town he just gets powerlynched tomorrow.

[YT2980]

I still think pisskop IS scum. I'm inclined to think Starbucks/Nicole is as well.

Only inclined to think she is scum? Do you not trust Rob or something?

Rob did say there was a slim chance he was wrong, iirc. I'm inclined to think both are, I don't know for certain.

No, I didn't. I said that my role allows for a chance that I get a false negative (i.e. I can't be sure that those who don't test in an incriminating way are innocent), but a guilty is a guilty. It's definitive.

I briefly entertained redirection as a possibility since Mimi brought it up, but my night action result is worded in such a way that it would be bastard if I had been redirected.

Oh, well then Mimi has to be scum. Lynch her.

No way a scum member would pull something like this.

[Rob14]

So I just remembered to actually check my PMs and read what my night action result was.

Nicole Mimi, claim now. If not, you're getting quick-lynched. I have an incriminating result, but I'm not going to say what type so that the counter-claim cannot be tailored. I want a full claim - name, role, and who you targeted last night, including result of said action.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS FOR A SINGLE FUCKING SECOND

YOU MEANT TO TELL ME

THAT YOU HAVE A NIGHT ACTION

AND YOU JUST FUCKING "FORGOT" AN INCRIMINATING RESULT?

nu-uh

vote: rob

Then there's also the fact that I have reason to believe Mimi's version of the claim.

I didn't even check my PMs until the moment I made that post, you dolt. I didn't forget a guilty.

The day started while I was working on some stuff due this morning, and I just saw the thread open. I haven't been getting emails when I get PMs lately for some reason.

[Flubbernugget]

i could pick at the poor practice of wanting to crap out one massive apathy inducing post for the purposes of looking like effort and an excuse to lurk but Im frankly interested in what MR WIKI has to say about this whole game.

MS is really bad at it but actually making a long post that's readable isn't impossible

[Rob14]

Rob went so balls to the wall to tryign to allure his role without claiming that I think he should just claim at this point because if he's town he's fucking dead anyways.

After I claim a guilty and get a scum lynched, I'm dead no matter what, but I'm playing under the assumption I'll live until tomorrow. If I die, it won't have mattered anyway - you'll see with my flip. If I live, then it will be beneficial.

Blatant role fishing so you can better counter-claim to my results.