Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[wgeurts]

I love talking to myself.
Especially when others are making a point of not taking to yoj

[pisskop]

wgeurts is town flailing for town credit. Ive stated i thought he was town but just a scummy-worthy fuckup who is a bettet kill t
an I for both practical and theoretical reasons, but yo. that towncredgrab.



glad youre soul can flail over dwelee after you lynch him wgeurts.

[wgeurts]

I'm town flailing?

[pisskop]

isnt that what you called it?

'grabbing for tc'?


i gathered that context is hard n shit, which is why you used your power role im the worst possible way, but cripes guy

[T S O]

Not even a bullshit stunt. I don't care if it's the person we had planned to lynch anyway. I don't trust him to use another shot if he has one, and I want an agreement from a good deal of players that him using another shot is an insta-lynch if it happens if I'm going to go after pisskop.

Yes. I will agree to this. I'm sure almost every player in the game will.

[Rob14]

If you base your arguments off the assumption people are complete shit at the game, you're playing the game wrong.

I don't usually, but

all

arguments right now must be based on wgeurts being generally shit at the game because he's verifiably done a play that is complete shit whether he's town or scum.

[T S O]

Rob - can you explain what scum-wguerts who is partners with Nicole was thinking? I don't see how his thought process comes from scum.

First, I want to note that I believe he didn't think it would blow back on him in the way it did, which isn't a big leap, since he had to have thought that to do this as town OR scum. No sane town or scum would use a gladiate with a confirmed guilty on the table if they thought they'd lose the gladiate. Wouldn't make sense from either perspective.

Lololol. It isn't about "he would have thought to do it alignment/regardless", it's risk/reward. In what universe, would anyone ever use a gladiate with a guilty on the table, and not realize there would be a very good chance he'd not only get a fuckton of blowback for it but look like obvscum after I flip? There would be no way he'd be anything but flat-out condemned after I flip (especially in this town) - this is even the case if I'm opposing scum bc ppl will just assume he's on the opposing scum team. Its completely unnecessary.

Moreover: you're insinuating that he thought he'd win a gladiate vs. pisskop and that's a large part of why he did it. If that's the case ... why, exactly, wouldn't he just let me get lynched and do it on D3? It's the same benefit in terms of having a guaranteed lynch and then he doesn't have to deal with how it'd relate to me at all.

If you base your arguments off the assumption people are complete shit at the game, you're playing the game wrong.

I'm probably voting wgeurts btw.

How did you manage to go from defending wguerts to saying you'll vote him in the post directly afterwards?

[T S O]

I know that you unvoted before you went to bed, but I have no idea how #2711 could be followed by anything other than a pisskop vote.

[Rob14]

Moreover: you're insinuating that he thought he'd win a gladiate vs. pisskop and that's a large part of why he did it. If that's the case ... why, exactly, wouldn't he just let me get lynched and do it on D3? It's the same benefit in terms of having a guaranteed lynch and then he doesn't have to deal with how it'd relate to me at all.

As town, this is exactly correct, and there's no reason that we MUST have pisskop dead this day.

As scum, he gets a day out of his partner.

They're both horrible reasons to do this, but I think the scum reason is more.

I slept on pisskop's role, and it honestly makes a great scum role, since pisskop could know who on the scum team is female. It's a lot more swingy on town. Honestly, I just don't have any idea here. I kind of want to lynch both of these guys, but wgeurts is the less risky to lynch. If I'm wrong on pisskop, we lose a doctor, potentially. If I'm wrong on wgeurts, we prevent him from using his second gladiate shot in another terribly anti-town way.

If wgeurts is scum, then this is multi-ball and he genuinely thinks pisskop is flipping scum, by the way. He's at least convinced me that he's scum-hunting genuinely. That doesn't mean too much in multiball, unfortunately.

[Rob14]

Here's what I think my final case on voting wgeurts boils down to. Toss aside all the setup spec and all the other weird shit going on lately for a second.

Let's be honest; we're going to lynch both of these guys (or vig/investigate/etc). No way is either one of them making it to LyLo, because pisskop was piss in the early game and wgeurts went full retard this day phase. We're just deciding on the order, as far as I'm concerned. If we go with pisskop first, then wgeurts can do another gladiate shot tomorrow. If we go with wgeurts first, then he can't, and if pisskop happens to be town they can use their protect for an extra night phase.

I don't see the downside in going with wgeurts first.

[T S O]

I've read up and I still want to hear motivations, reads, etc from wgeurts before I place a vote. Piss is being quite scummy with his pushes and flipping out but wgeurts's gladiate was absurdly anti town and he's doing no scumhunting at all while at the least Piss is pushing people. If nothing changes I will be voting wgeurts.

Wguerts isn't scumhunting because he's Gladiated. Asking him to figure out other people's alignments while he's being hounded by people for using his action on his main suspect doesn't make sense to me. You don't Gladiate someone and then start talking about other people - the whole point of the action is to focus discussion on a single target. Piss "pushing people" just amounts to him either insulting people calling him scum (YT), and when he knows that won't work, furiously slandering people calling him scum.

[Maxous]

Or we don't lynch wguerts at all unless he pulls this stunt again?

Edit: @rob

[wgeurts]

If you base your arguments off the assumption people are complete shit at the game, you're playing the game wrong.

I don't usually, but

all

arguments right now must be based on wgeurts being generally shit at the game because he's verifiably done a play that is complete shit whether he's town or scum.

We will speak again once Pisskop flips. If he's scum what I've done is arguably not shit.

[pisskop]

well no?


Asking wgeurts to reinforce himself as a townread is hardly unreasonable after he drops his trousers over the gamestate.


And who have I called scum here that wasnt you tso? youre awful quick to jump on the offensive here, but youre the only one on my wagon I pyshed a case on.

[T S O]

Wguerts. We had a Guilty. Arguing that you did the right thing here will

not

help you.

[wgeurts]

Also Rob, you under estimate my play.
Let's say I have an unlimited Gladiate and I consistently hit scum each time. That's not shit play. That's how I meant to play.

[wgeurts]

Wguerts. We had a Guilty. Arguing that you did the right thing here will

not

help you.

Yeah it was a little bad but I'm not tolerating rob saying I'm shit.

[Rob14]

Or we don't lynch wguerts at all unless he pulls this stunt again?

Edit: @rob

We're doing something to wgeurts. I don't care whether it's an investigation, vig, or lynch, but he's not making it to LyLo completely unchecked after directly preventing the lynch of someone with a confirmed guilty while still agreeing they should be killed off.

And I have reason to believe my PR might return a non-conclusive "innocent" result, so I'm of no help on the investigation aspect.

[Rob14]

Also Rob, you under estimate my play.
Let's say I have an unlimited Gladiate and I consistently hit scum each time. That's not shit play. That's how I meant to play.

You traded a mod-confirmed guilty for a maybe based only on your read. That's obviously a shit play.

If you can consistently hit scum every time in most situations, sure, whatever. That won't happen, but sure. In this situation, though, at best you've resulted in our lynch doing just as well as it would have before. At worst, you've seriously fucked us over. There's no potential benefit.

[T S O]

Why didn't you just fucking do it tomorrow rather than today? Why did you think pisskop absolutely had to die today?

[SirCakez]

Ugh after reading all of that I kind of feel like they might somehow both be town just playing horrendously bad. I think it's safer to lynch wgeurts still now that he's confirmed he has another gladiate use.
And yes it was a shit play do not argue it was good.

[T S O]

I don't know. I just think that Wguerts is almost certainly town here. I have nothing close to that confidence with pisskop.

[Rob14]

T S O, your read is more that wgeurts is not scum, not that he's town, right?

[Flubbernugget]

Page 91

With Rob's investigation only being 90% clean the gladiator isn't good but doesn't come off as a scum claim to me. I'm not thrilled but am also not devastated that we will have to handle the investigation later, but also with more information.

Depending on how much thread space the discussion is taking up I do think rob full claiming would benefit town, and remove the resistance on the mimi wagon that allowed this gladiate to happen in the first place. However, with what I have read so far, I think that should be done tomorrow since we can't lynch either today.

[Rob14]

The fuck do you mean 90% clean? It's a fucking mod confirmed guilty. How are you not getting this?

And I'm not full claiming, period, until it actually benefits town.