Micro 580: Shortnight Mafia [GAME OVER]

[lovelygiant]

I would like Reck's and TIMU's lists with explanation next.

I'm still firm on lynching Chen. I don't see that changing. The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

[xRECKONERx]

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

[lovelygiant]

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

bzzzzzzzzzzt you're one third of your group but okay.

[Chenoan]

Okay so I'm gonna do ISO's on everyone, starting with my group, and my initial scumread.

What's he gonna do, quickhammer you?
Then he'll be confirmed scum and we'll either vengekill him and confirm him as scum or speedlynch him tomorrow.
I don't understand your fears here.

UNVOTE:
k don't quickhammer.

Okay so pointing out these two posts again. This unvote makes NO sense if RC is town and actually believes what they said in 11. If LG quickhammered, then we'd have found the scum already according to their logic. In fact, according to post 11's logic, RC should have scumread LG for even wanting to hammer. But he didn't. Maybe because he thought LG would be easy to manipulate? Throw in a little of 13 for added logical inconsistency here, too..

How is anything that I've done remotely 'trying to incite an early lynch'?

I never responded to this well. I'm dumb. But now that there's more content I feel even more like RC was eager for a lynch, and I was just the easy target at first. Or they might have been scumbaiting? But if they were scumbaiting then why did RC not follow through on their logic and scumread LG at all?

So uh Chenoan.

Anything to say?

Again this feels so eager for a lynch. Literally one page after he unvoted, and less than ten minutes after LG voted, there's this subtle pseudo-intent to hammer. When I first read it I felt like I was being asked "any last words?"

It still feels that way, tbh.

35 & 38 The buddying of RC to LG begins...

I just get nasty feelings about the way that he was trying to ward me off hammering with an appeal to vengekilling me instead of trying to convince me he was town or something.

So I didn't catch it at the time because I was being overly defensive, but this is a serious misrep. I never said I would vengekill RC. In 31, I said I wanted them to stay active after I died so I could get good reads on them. Clearly indicating that although I was leaning scum on RC, that I wasn't sure.

56 - A valid point. After this point and TIMU's post regarding the RC/LG buddying I started trying to make sure I wasn't scumreading RC due to tunnel-vision. (Don't worry RC, I'm ISO'ing LG after this ) Also, at this point is where group two generally became more active, and tbh personally I find scumhunting buddies is easier than individuals.

Town can be plenty confident of scum.
Chenoan's opening was ridiculous, his stances are ridiculous, if I were in his shoes I'd feel the same way.
Group 2 needs to start talking more.

tbh I did feel a bit ridiculous when I realized I was taking an internet forum game so personally. Which is why I decided not to post until after work. And then I got sick. Now with distance from my initial emotions I still agree with my logic, but I should have composed myself more rather than firing posts of from the hip like I did.

132 - This feels scummy as fuck.
140 - This is more a mixed bag. Like on one hand it feels very genuine as a reaction. But the "I will get you lynched" is such a random threat. Especially considering how he reacted to me not even actually threatening to NK them if we double lynch town.

Either way, I'm fairly sure Reck's scum at this point but I think it's more likely that LG is the scum and that the Chen associatives are a deliberate false trail because he intended to be lynched. It goes with LG's flip floppiness over townreading me; he may be acting like this because he knows he has to 1v1 me sooner or later but doesn't want to attract my attention before that.

Can you explain this more? Are you saying that I intended to get lynched? Or? I'm confused by this and can't really react to it until I understand?

I do find it interesting how RC is questioning why everyone finds them town. I'm questioning the same thing. It feels like evveryone has just assumed it as a given at this point without good explanations? But the fact that RC is questioning it publically seems VERY towny. That throws me off.

RC, in 195 you seem to be flipping your scumread onto Ranger. Is that true?

You know when you phrase it like that this game sounds ridiculously townsided.

Lol what?

If it's that simple then this game is a lot more town slanted than I thought at first. Thanks for enlightening me RC

I like how you're asking for lists with reasons now without having posted a recent list yourself. I'm gonna update my reads list after I'm done with ISOs. But you can read back and see my old one.

[Chenoan]

LG's ISO might take a bit since they have literally 1/3 of the posts in the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay so pointing out these two posts again. This unvote makes NO sense if RC is town and actually believes what they said in 11. If LG quickhammered, then we'd have found the scum already according to their logic. In fact, according to post 11's logic, RC should have scumread LG for even wanting to hammer. But he didn't. Maybe because he thought LG would be easy to manipulate? Throw in a little of 13 for added logical inconsistency here, too..

The fuck?
I did scumread LG for wanting to hammer.
I just scumread your reaction a lot more because your fixation on me didn't make much sense.

Again this feels so eager for a lynch. Literally one page after he unvoted, and less than ten minutes after LG voted, there's this subtle pseudo-intent to hammer. When I first read it I felt like I was being asked "any last words?"

It still feels that way, tbh.

35 & 38 The buddying of RC to LG begins...

No.
That was me waiting to see if you'd comment on how despite you accusing me of rushing a lynch LG was doing exactly that.
You didn't.

Can you explain this more? Are you saying that I intended to get lynched? Or? I'm confused by this and can't really react to it until I understand?

I do find it interesting how RC is questioning why everyone finds them town. I'm questioning the same thing. It feels like evveryone has just assumed it as a given at this point without good explanations? But the fact that RC is questioning it publically seems VERY towny. That throws me off.

RC, in 195 you seem to be flipping your scumread onto Ranger. Is that true?

No, I'm saying that you might be town and that Reck wanted to make false associatives.
I'm fairly sure that TIMU is town. I'm not quite sure between Reck and Ranger.

tbh I did feel a bit ridiculous when I realized I was taking an internet forum game so personally. Which is why I decided not to post until after work. And then I got sick. Now with distance from my initial emotions I still agree with my logic, but I should have composed myself more rather than firing posts of from the hip like I did.

132 - This feels scummy as fuck.
140 - This is more a mixed bag. Like on one hand it feels very genuine as a reaction. But the "I will get you lynched" is such a random threat. Especially considering how he reacted to me not even actually threatening to NK them if we double lynch town.

Kay. Not sure how to respond to that.

I like how you're asking for lists with reasons now without having posted a recent list yourself. I'm gonna update my reads list after I'm done with ISOs. But you can read back and see my old one.

I needed help sorting people /shrug
I think my stances are fairly clear anyway? If there's anything in particular you're interested in then ask me.

I still really don't understand your scumread on me.

[Ranger]

Ranger earns a townread for his(her? can't remember) apt game setup speculation and effort to find scum.

Note to self, paint a gigantic sign on my wiki spelling out, "FEMALE".

[This is my username]

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

bzzzzzzzzzzt you're one third of your group but okay.

This post seems weird to me somehow. It doesn't really have a point.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ranger earns a townread for his(her? can't remember) apt game setup speculation and effort to find scum.

Note to self, paint a gigantic sign on my wiki spelling out, "FEMALE".

lol

[lovelygiant]

Ranger earns a townread for his(her? can't remember) apt game setup speculation and effort to find scum.

Note to self, paint a gigantic sign on my wiki spelling out, "FEMALE".

I had a feeling I was getting it wrong. I know an IRL pair of twins named Hunter and Ranger. Forgive me

[lovelygiant]

LG's ISO might take a bit since they have literally 1/3 of the posts in the game.

I've explained that it's because I'm a mobile user and multi-quoting on this POS phone has always been a hassle for me. But, like every game, you'll find people twisting it into an argument against me.

(Here, a multi quote, JUST for you!)

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

bzzzzzzzzzzt you're one third of your group but okay.

This post seems weird to me somehow. It doesn't really have a point.

I was getting annoyed by Reck's attitude of "I control my group! I have authority! Bzzzzt onomatopoeia!"

I guess that's just his playstyle.

[lovelygiant]

also, @RC:

You're fairly certain TIMU is town. Could you clarify why? Is it in spite of his many slip-ups?

Because

of them? Or nothing to do with that altogether? Mostly curious, as I don't think anyone has commented on them in relation to their read of TIMU. So I'm struggling to be sure whether they're a scummy thing or possibly a towny thing. Still leaning in scum, but would like insight.

I guess this question could be answered by anyone interested.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm out today but I'll give you an answer when I get back.

[Maestro]

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.06

GROUP 1

RadiantCowbells -

0 / 2

lovelygiant -

0 / 2

Chenoan -

0 / 2

GROUP 2

Ranger -

1 / 2

- xRECKONERx
xRECKONERx -

1 / 2

- Ranger
This is my username -

0 / 2

With

[6]

alive it takes

[2]

to Lynch in each group.

In this specific setup, "No Lynch" is not an option.

ACTIVITY CHECK & NOTES

:

None!

Deadline is in ... (expired on 2016-02-27 18:55:00)

No votes have changed as of VC 1.06 (post 200).
No player is within range for an inactivity prod.

...in other news, I like you guys. This is fun.

[RadiantCowbells]

Phone egopost

[Chenoan]

Okay now that I'm caught up on sleep and off from work for a moment. Here we go on LG's iso. To be honest, it was mostly a lot of filler and so finding actually useful information was hard.

Votes are not nearly as precious a resource as early posts would have you believe. Hammering would reveal way too much for mafia, and if a civ hammers this early, they've more than earned the vengekill they'll eat.

So far I'm liking Radiant for mirroring similar thoughts.

So upon rereading this irks me a lot. I couldn't figure out why to begin with, but just wait.

I was hoping you'd catch that. That right there is why I'm townreading you already. Scum would have let it be and scores an easy lynch.

So now it's my turn.

Out with a solid townread like basically one page into the game? How confident of you. Also, with keeping in mind that my original buddying read that RC was buddying LG could be reversed, this is the second post in a long line of buddying.

Don't let my first game be this easy, really.

And if I'm being played, RC deserves an award for screaming town so clearly.

RC hasn't been screaming town at all. The only reason I can see to say this is buddying. LG is either dumbtown or playing some SERIOUS WiFoM games.

Saying you are town isn't a scumtell, obviously.

Obviously

. Because of course, you've been saying this all game, so you needed to make this post to dissuade everyone from thinking it's a scumtell when it literally isn't. But this post is super sus.

Is there a "Who's Posted?" function that shows post distribution in a thread amongst players? My old forum had one and I find it pretty useful later in the game to analyze overall activity and to go from ISO to ISO with ease.

Again, I still find it interesting that he pointed out this feature just so we could see how active he's been. But it's a lot of short posts and most of them don't add much to the conversation.

I'm still insistent on the fact that Chen, if town, should have been scumreading me after I traded hammers with RC, but instead he stayed on RC for fear of being inconsistent. He just breathes scum in town's clothing.

Quoting this to link to...

From a strategic standpoint, if Chen is mafia, the smartest thing to do now would be to try and push for me. He can't vote RC and conceivably succeed because that would require me also voting RC to hammer, which ain't happening. His only move left would be to lynch me as attempt to convince RC to switch with him, which is more realistic. That's the biggest problem with this game's structure (that I've found anyway.) Unless I'm missing something.

Less than 4 posts apart LG sets up an impossible situation. He seems to have decided that I'm gonna get lynched today, and wants to have every argument available to him. If i vote RC, that's scummy because I'm just doing it to appear consistent. If I vote LG, that's scummy because I'm just doing it because LG won't lynch RC and I'm going the path of least resistance? K.

it is noteworthy that your first post in the thread was used to discredit RC and I after we started voicing suspicion on Chen, yet you managed to not mention Chen at all, possibly to avoid being too forward in your defense.

RC, I know this is going to seem like more buddying, but I'd like your insight on this.

Hanging a lantern on the buddying. It's not buddying if he posts that it's buddying, right?

also, I'm like really, really positive on my townread of RC (so far). By PoE I have no choice but to suspect Chen. So regardless of your disagreement with my suspicion of him, I kind of have to lynch him.

So he has a solid townread on RC for reasons I still don't fully agree with, and I'm just getting lynched by PoE? Yea okay. Obviously if you have a legitimate townread on the only remaining townie in your group the 3rd person must be scum. But in this case, I'm starting to think my gut reaction in the game was very, very wrong.

I feel like my reads on people in relation to them townreading me is more coincidental than causal. I have been doing my best to scum hunt, whether or not I've been successful at it.

It wasn't specific points in Chen's post, but more the way he wasn't afraid to garner more attention and create more discussion around him by calling out pretty much everyone, the opposite of what a scum would typically want in that situation, right? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I found you very civ for your withdrawn vote in fear of my hammer, amongst other things. Our early interactions with Chen revealed a lot, I thought, but the more I look at them, the more I can see them with both town and mafia motives, myself included. That's what the doubt and Unvote/revote nonsense was about.

I find myself confusing Reck's and Ranger's reads a lot. I'm gonna reexamine the thread in its entirety while it is still short.

What are these "other things" RC has done to look towny? You've mentioned that they exist, but not what they are. So what are they?

Oh, dear. I wish you weren't scumreading me, but I don't know how to stop you.

Literally what.

My flip-floppiness was genuine because, whilst second guessing my scum read on Chen, it left only you to consider. The reason I went BACK to town-reading you was the overall assessment that, no matter how my brain spun it, you were just unarguably cleaner and I was making a mistake.

I do strongly agree with your reads on Reck for my previously explained reasons. I think you're reading his relation to Chen and me

backwards

though. It seems almost transparent to me, go and look at those posts of his, in context. He didn't start dissecting Chen until AFTER ranger mentioned the likelihood of them being a team, and after he had felt he's done his due diligence for the sake of distance, he acted as if he suddenly found me way more guilty. It's bogus as all hell. I guess the transparency comes from knowing my alignment, though. And that I can't prove. Working on it.

So this is getting me even more convinced that LG is scum, and is either bussing Reck or trying to get Reck mislynched. I can't tell on the last part though. My reads on Reck and Ranger are hovering dangerously near each other.

You're fairly certain TIMU is town. Could you clarify why? Is it in spite of his many slip-ups?

Because

of them? Or nothing to do with that altogether? Mostly curious, as I don't think anyone has commented on them in relation to their read of TIMU. So I'm struggling to be sure whether they're a scummy thing or possibly a towny thing. Still leaning in scum, but would like insight.

Linking this back to...

Bumping TIMU to townlisted for now.

Literally what? You bump TIMU to town and then some 30 posts later question why someone else is townreading him? What's the logic there? Also that's not even addressing how you go from "bumping TIMU to town" to "Still leaning scum" on him...

[Chenoan]

Okay so I was going to just vote LG right now. But I want to get ISO's done on group two first to see if I missed anything important regarding my group. For now,

FoS: LG

[Chenoan]

The fuck?
I did scumread LG for wanting to hammer.
I just scumread your reaction a lot more because your fixation on me didn't make much sense.

Nothing you said at that point seemed to indicate any scumread on LG. Did I miss something?

No, I'm saying that you might be town and that Reck wanted to make false associatives.
I'm fairly sure that TIMU is town. I'm not quite sure between Reck and Ranger.

I thought you had a solid townread on Ranger. Where'd it go?

I needed help sorting people /shrug
I think my stances are fairly clear anyway? If there's anything in particular you're interested in then ask me.

I still really don't understand your scumread on me.

If you could just post them for sake of clarity? That way no one can go back and be like "But no! RC's reads were x!"

And tbh, my scumread on you was a lot of gut seasoned with tunnelling. I still don't fully townread you, though. And I don't understand how other players seem to be doing that??

[RadiantCowbells]

I was scumreading both of you at the time because both of you were being absolute nonsense.
I came to the conclusion since that LG was more scum motivated compared to you being more likely to just be derptown.
Luckily a LG scumflip will confirm me as town or you're scum so your read on me isn't a huge deal to me.

I thought that LG could easily have been opportunistic scum at the time but I thought your refusal to see that, and in fact you calling me out for shit that LG was far worse WRT was terrible and that made me scumread you more. Still think that your deathtunnel was/is pretty fucking awful if you're town.

I've flopped on Ranger a lot but I get the feeling that her not being concerned about being lynched thing isn't an act. I'm townreading TIMU so I can empathize with that and she's generally been fairly consistent about townreading me as town (she's actually missed me when I was scum) so I can see her feeling like it's autowin from that. Further, if she was scum that would mean she needs to position her scumpartner in this group to be the one alive tomorrow or try to win it herself. She's done absolutely nothing to that end, she hasn't tried to lay false associatives with me, she hasn't tried to shift the townreads on TIMU or myself, and that's just so impossibly weird for scum. Like I feel like if she was scum she'd be desperately trying to do SOMETHING; from what I've seen of her scumgame she isn't *amazing* at looking town but she's not stupid either.

On the other hand Reck looks like he's basically given up on our group, which I can see given that I'm universally townread no matter who his partner is, and is focusing on winning the battle with Ranger. I mean he hasn't really tried to fight TIMU being townread but he hasn't explained any townreading on him either and I feel like it would be really easy for him to let his partner get lynched and vengekill me and push a lynch on TIMU if he survived in his group. If I were in group 2 I'd hammer Reck I think.

As to my TIMU townread, he's said shit that's ostensibly scummy but it feels like it's scummy in the way that he would have cleaned up as scum. his scumminess feels more like careless disregard for how he's read than it feels like masked scum intent and his thoughts feel really genuine and unfiltered and we end up having a lot of the same thoughts. I'm like 99% sure he's town here. There's a lot of gut to it as well that's hard for me to put into words but I'm just generally really townreading him.

[lovelygiant]

And right before you set up the dichotomy, you thank Radiant for enlightening you. How can you claim to be enlightened about the setup and then immediately avoid applying what you've learned to instead make Radiant look suspicious?

I hope I'm not tunneling too early but that doesn't look good.

Also: I have a tendency to post in spurts back-to-back-to-back. Expect that a lot.

I should also explain that my "flooding the thread" has a lot to do with playing mafia entirely off of an iPhone 4, which makes multi-quote posts extremely tedious and difficult. So I'm forced to respond to one quote at a time. I apologize of this looks spammy but I don't have much else choice.

LG's ISO might take a bit since they have literally 1/3 of the posts in the game.

I've explained that it's because I'm a mobile user and multi-quoting on this POS phone has always been a hassle for me. But, like every game, you'll find people twisting it into an argument against me.

(Here, a multi quote, JUST for you!)

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

bzzzzzzzzzzt you're one third of your group but okay.

This post seems weird to me somehow. It doesn't really have a point.

I was getting annoyed by Reck's attitude of "I control my group! I have authority! Bzzzzt onomatopoeia!"

I guess that's just his playstyle.

And yet, Chen, you STILL had to make a comment about my postcount somehow being scummy. Tired of repeating myself.

Your wall post is not giving me what I needed from you.

VOTE: Chenoan

Unlikely to change at this point. I'm set.

[Chenoan]

Unlikely to change at this point. I'm set.

You sure bro? RC might stop townreading you again.

Also, I'm not saying your post count is scummy. Saying you deliberately pointing out the activity tracker because supposedly seeing how the activity in the threads is divided can help people's reads is scummy.

You essentially, at least how I'm reading it, claimed that more posts = more town. And then you proceeded to post a lot of filler.

Keep going, though. It's making my decision easier.

[Chenoan]

So RC, your 243 is definitely the strongest towny post I've seen from either of you now. Add to that my conclusions from LG's ISO and I think I'm almost ready to vote. Though insulting me did hurt

MOD: If our group lynches before the other group, will the surviving players still be allowed to post? Will the lynched player (you said they can keep posting until you post their death in the rules, and said you'll post both flips at the same time, so I just want to clarify)?

I don't want to vote If it will stop us from helping the other group scumhunt. Especially not before I've had time to actually iso the second group properly.

I've said multiple times that TIMU is my strongest townread, I think. I know I said it at least once somewhere? But tbh I'm leaning towards Ranger as the scum at the moment. I think I'll iso Ranger next...

[Maestro]

@MOD: If our group lynches before the other group, will the surviving players still be allowed to post? Will the lynched player (you said they can keep posting until you post their death in the rules, and said you'll post both flips at the same time, so I just want to clarify)?

Not sure what wasn't clear. After one group puts a player at L-0, the first lynched player can continue posting (as in any normal game) until I post a "lynch achieved"-type VC, which won't contain a flip. After I post a VC saying a player is lynched, they cannot post (as in any normal game). The other two players from the group can continue posting normally.

After the other group puts a player at L-0, the second lynched player can also continue posting (as in any normal game) until I post a "lynch achieved"-type VC, which will also contain a flip for both lynched players, a lock on the game thread, and a notice about what state of twilight we've entered (if any).

[This is my username]

And right before you set up the dichotomy, you thank Radiant for enlightening you. How can you claim to be enlightened about the setup and then immediately avoid applying what you've learned to instead make Radiant look suspicious?

I hope I'm not tunneling too early but that doesn't look good.

Also: I have a tendency to post in spurts back-to-back-to-back. Expect that a lot.

I should also explain that my "flooding the thread" has a lot to do with playing mafia entirely off of an iPhone 4, which makes multi-quote posts extremely tedious and difficult. So I'm forced to respond to one quote at a time. I apologize of this looks spammy but I don't have much else choice.

LG's ISO might take a bit since they have literally 1/3 of the posts in the game.

I've explained that it's because I'm a mobile user and multi-quoting on this POS phone has always been a hassle for me. But, like every game, you'll find people twisting it into an argument against me.

(Here, a multi quote, JUST for you!)

The other group is a toss-up between Reckoner and TIMU.

bzzzzzzzzzzzt not happening

ill post my explanations later, busy now, but i think my thoughts are pretty clear in the thread without the need for me to repeat myself

bzzzzzzzzzzt you're one third of your group but okay.

This post seems weird to me somehow. It doesn't really have a point.

I was getting annoyed by Reck's attitude of "I control my group! I have authority! Bzzzzt onomatopoeia!"

I guess that's just his playstyle.

And yet, Chen, you STILL had to make a comment about my postcount somehow being scummy. Tired of repeating myself.

Your wall post is not giving me what I needed from you.

VOTE: Chenoan

Unlikely to change at this point. I'm set.

As Chenoan already pointed out, you casing some of us over activity when you posted a lot of filler is scummy, not the amount of posts in general.

Unlikely to change at this point. I'm set.

You sure bro? RC might stop townreading you again.

Also, I'm not saying your post count is scummy. Saying you deliberately pointing out the activity tracker because supposedly seeing how the activity in the threads is divided can help people's reads is scummy.

You essentially, at least how I'm reading it, claimed that more posts = more town. And then you proceeded to post a lot of filler.

Keep going, though. It's making my decision easier.

The last line in this post feels kind of weird but I agree with the points it makes.

[Ranger]

243 holds a lot for why I'm voting Reck. I don't really have much else to say, really; there hasn't been anything truly significant.