Newbie 1677 (Game Over)

[jachawk]

Hello All,
Good Day to all of you
This is my first time playing Mafia online, please go easy on me

My hawk sense tells me something is off about this other "hawk". So here goes my vote
VOTE: hawkleader3

[jachawk]

It's a bit better than just a habit for the scum's side. And again, we don't need it to be a 100% tell. 51% will do.

Fair enough, you make a good point. I'll still be keeping an eye on you Mr.IC.

On the other hand:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jachawk
There should be plenty of material to comment on and not just make a random vote. Come out and play

Fair enough

One thing I wanted to point out is that

It's a bit better than just a habit for the scum's side. And again, we don't need it to be a 100% tell. 51% will do.

Fair enough, you make a good point. I'll still be keeping an eye on you Mr.IC.

On the other hand:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jachawk
There should be plenty of material to comment on and not just make a random vote. Come out and play

Fair enough

[jachawk]

@Natsu : I have not read through any game so far, but seems like a good idea

One thing I wanted to point out is that mykonian seems to be a bit too eager to lynch ruku. I am not really convinced that using a RNG suggests scum intent, certainly not enough to lynch somebody.

I sense a fair bit of conviction when Mykonian says

We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!

I think only scum would have enough information to act with such confidence. Even though using an RNG does not give the town much, it is not right to expect much from a random vote and use it as a reason to vote somebody.

Though mykonian puts up a good argument later, I feel he acted with opportunistic scum intent earlier.

So,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

[jachawk]

@Natsu : I have not read through any game so far, but seems like a good idea

One thing I wanted to point out is that mykonian seems to be a bit too eager to lynch ruku. I am not really convinced that using a RNG suggests scum intent, certainly not enough to lynch somebody.

I sense a fair bit of conviction when Mykonian says

We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!

I think only scum would have enough information to act with such confidence. Even though using an RNG does not give the town much, it is not right to expect much from a random vote and use it as a reason to vote somebody.

Though mykonian puts up a good argument later, I feel he acted with opportunistic scum intent earlier.

So,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

I don't know if anyone votes on page 2 with intent for a lynch (at least I don't). I think it's mostly for getting reactions.

Ok ... This makes sense
But still, advertising that you intend to change your vote later will probably lead to less than honest reactions, slowing the game down.

[jachawk]

@Natsu: Yes, you are too poorly uninformed, so read the wiki!!! And I don't want to waste the first day getting killed by the scum trying to fool you all, yes Natsu, I'm pointing the finger at you, you literally jumped on a bandwagon against me when you are 'too uninformed to handle' and claim I'm trying to skip the RVS, how do you even know what that means if you're not informed well enough, I've been playing since before Christmas and know less than you!!

Vote:Natsu

This seems to be a desperate response which does not check the facts first. It appears very defensive and unlike the town who have nothing to worry about.
I think this warrants further discussion, but as of now
UNVOTE:
VOTE: tojam2

[jachawk]

Some points I wanted to mention,

@MochaMan This is my 3rd game on this site, however I have had some impeccable rounds of TIMV where I as detective have correctly chosen who to lynch 4/5 times, I have played over 150 rounds through all 3 classes I think.

[tojam3] - TIMV doesn't work like that. why lie? lynch all liars! jk, luv u babe. not voting you until you explain, ive played on it on the hive so sorry if its different on another server. the 3 classes thing sure sounds like hive tho. also, going through ur iso sorry for putting me up at the top of the list babeee

tojam2 suggests that he is an asset to town, but PhantomCobalt says he might be lying. tojam2 does not respond to this.

To post 49:
the newbs always follow lead of the SEs, I suppose I get to exploit that when I complete this game though.
I have no idea what RVS and OMGUS stand for, if someone could explain that it would be useful.
Ruku, I started at L-1, what do you mean getting to L-1 this early?

In the same post, tojam2 suggests that he is experienced enough to have newbies follow his lead while asking for explanations regarding basic terms.

The only explanation offered by tojam2 till now is that he does not handle accusation well. On the other hand, it appears that mykonian has offered more defence to tojam2 than tojam2 himself.

I don't really mind how the tojam wagon formed, but that is something we could look back on later. I don't think it's particulary more likely to be on scum than town? So I don't see myself joining that one on a short notice.

He's made several ridiculously weird posts

But is weird scummy? Idk man, it's been a while since I've IC'd before, but as far as I've remembered newbies would always be weird. And that's the way it should be, where else is the fun if everybody plays the same. Tojam hasn't, still doesn't really stand out to me. His posts are a bit what I'd expect, I guess?

I think finding 'weird' posts is the only way to find scum, so ignoring these does not make much sense.
During the RVS stage, mykonian goes after ruku for using a rng (which to me does not seem like a big deal) and yet never asks for a reaction from tojam2. This seems weird to me.

[jachawk]

Follow up to my first post:

Jachawk

This is more of a gut read than anything else really, but a couple of things bothered me about him. In post 45 he looks like he might be doing what he accused mykonian of doing, but when I looked at it again I wasn't so sure. In post 52, he says that "this warrants further discussion" but despite that puts tojam at L-1.

Earlier mykonian says

We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!

In post 45, I misinterpreted what mykonian was implying, also I was under the assumption that votes count solely towards lynching somebody. I realized later that he wanted to get a reaction from ruku.

In post 52, I wanted to get a reaction from tojam2 using my vote (yes, I apply what I learn ). But did not know the significance of 4 votes against somebody. This was the first time I heard the term L-1, certainly wasnt what I intended with my vote.

[jachawk]

@tojam2 : I am not sure if I am willing to call your posts as 'reactions', but anyways

@tojam2: you have not given a response to my vote on you. Sure most of us were in RVS, but I'm concerned as to why my vote got no attention at all. A simple rolling-eyed emoticon would've sufficed in this situation. Now tojam2, with you at L-1, it is time for a claim

It does appear that hawkleader3 is rolefishing and might be scum, but I cant help but feel that it is just too obvious to be true

[jachawk]

@hawkleader3: Oh, I get what a claim is now, I didn't know what one was before (look at me, it's my 3rd game and I didn't even know what it meant), I didn't force you to claim, I had 2 people I trusted on you, so I voted, and (here's my claim seen as you'll all vote for me if hawk turns out as scum) if I had an accomplice, I wouldn't have voted so soon, I have no power-role (tbh, it's a hard life if you have one) so I'm

Vanilla Townie

@tojam2 : what are you trying to do, why would you make a claim at this stage?

[jachawk]

Mochaman never really struck me as scummy till now

UNVOTE: I don't even know what's happening in this game anymore.

Given that I'm IC I should probably expand on that post. That post by mochaman is very scummy, although the tell as I learned it was mostly effective in face to face/chat mafia. The town takes a turn or is a bit unpredictable and the scum loses track of where the game is going, but do feel the need to show that they are active. In face to face/chat it's easier to see when someone needs time to think the possibilities/threats through (which is more a thing for scum) so they get in the awkward position where they feel the need to post soon to not seem to be lurking, and otoh don't really want to say something stupid.

And that's the issue with that post really. Town wouldn't mind saying something stupid, because how stupid could it be to have a scumread on someone and say that people should be voting that. Given that Mochaman otherwise here hasn't struck me as the intimidated newbie, which could be another reason someone makes a post like that, I think that's a decent reason to put mocha on ones scumlist.

I think mykonian's post tries a bit too hard to find scum intent in what mochaman said, I am not convinced that mochaman is the right person to lynch.

On the other hand,

I'd still prefer to lynch hawkleader but if that isn't coming off then I wouldn't object to lynching jachawk, Natsu or Mocha.

Natsu's post 194 adds to my scum lean on him. And why an intent to vote rather than an actual vote?

As he's no longer at L-1

Vote: hawkleader

The post suggests an intent to lynch one of 4 people (including myself), but does not provide much reasoning. It appears that the intention is to lynch somebody rather than an effort to lynch scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lia

[jachawk]

I'd still prefer to lynch hawkleader but if that isn't coming off then I wouldn't object to lynching jachawk, Natsu or Mocha.

Natsu's post 194 adds to my scum lean on him. And why an intent to vote rather than an actual vote?

The post suggests an intent to lynch one of 4 people (including myself), but does not provide much reasoning. It appears that the intention is to lynch somebody rather than an effort to lynch scum.

The reasoning for all but Mocha was in my earlier posts. The intention is to lynch my top scumread. However, deadline is approaching so we need to work towards the best lynch we can agree on rather than miss the lynch by not consolidating votes. We do still have a couple of days though so I'm sticking to my vote for the moment.

It appears that you are referring to your initial posts to justify your choice. This kind of ignores all the discussion that has occurred after your initial post, suggesting that you had pre-decided whom to lynch right from the moment you joined the game.

[jachawk]

jachawk

I don't like his post VOTE: 210.

Could you explain why MochaMan strikes you as scummy? Because the scum-tell for the post you linked that mykon explained later. Is then critisised by you in the next paragraph.

Although, I've read through his ISO and this is one of the first posts i've taken issue to.

@ruku : I think you misread 210, I have tried to explain why I feel mochaman would not be the right person to vote for.

It appears that you are referring to your initial posts to justify your choice. This kind of ignores all the discussion that has occurred after your initial post, suggesting that you had pre-decided whom to lynch right from the moment you joined the game.

That initial post took account of everything that happened up to that point (around 70% of the current thread volume). If you read my posts you will see that I haven't ignored what's gone on since then but have added Mocha to my lynch pool and asked two or three questions. What are you claiming has happened since then that you felt should have affect my vote? Because from looking at your posts you don't seem to have found much to comment on since I joined the game.

@lia : The issue I have with your posts is that you cast suspicion on a number of people and suggest that you are ok with voting any of them. This seems scummy to me because town should have no problem voting for and justifying their vote against the one person they find scummiest. Adding Mocha to your

lynch pool

does little to say otherwise.

[jachawk]

Yeah, the lines are really starting to blur to me for Tojam2. He has been making repeated town-slips, which I'm still not sure are due to absolute noobishness or if they're planned.

Looking at tojam2's posts, I am not really able to find a pattern, even though some of his posts do seem a bit scummy .....
Still, I dont think that this is part of some plan to avoid getting lynched because this is a newbie game after all

[jachawk]

He was working himself up to be one of the scummiest players in the game during Day 1. Sure, Jachawk and hawkleader were lurking, PC was mouthing off one-liners at people, Tojam was being Tojam, and I don't know what Lia was doing, but it somehow got her rallied against. But I felt like mykonian was drawing a lot of heat for the purpose of making himself a scum-read, which would

give him the time he needed to use a PR ability

.

Not sure if mykonian wanted to make himself a scum read ....
Also, why would he need time to use a PR ability?

A question I would like to ask to everyone, who was your prediction on the nightkill after Lia flipped green?
I thought it was going to be either me, ruku, or mykonian.

I would have imagined mykonian being the nightkill, but PC did make some valid claims as well and this probably made him a target.

[jachawk]

@Mochaman the answer to this question is irrelevant because I'm not voting for you because of that reason, and me telling you this reason does not help the scum hunting anymore, so I chose to ignore it until you forgot about it and moved on to more important tasks. Which you had for a period of time. I was wondering if light suspicion casted on you would affect your scum hunting in any way if I ignored you.

@hawkleader3 - It appears that you are trying a bit too hard to say that ignoring Mochaman was part of your scum hunting process
VOTE: hawkleader3

Not sure if mykonian wanted to make himself a scum read ....
Also, why would he need time to use a PR ability?

I guess in some cases, a town would purposely make themselves more scummy, so that the chances of them dying during the night are lowered. This would allow them to make better use of their power if they were something like a cop, or doctor. So long as they aren't lynched during the day.

Thanks for the explanation, this somewhat makes sense now

jachawk: I think he got through the day very unscathed with a lot of the pressure being directed to the other hawk.

I also believe that you were PCs strongest scum read, so his death would be very beneficial to you.

VOTE: jachawk

I am not sure how PCs death is beneficial to me, seeing that he was the jailkeeper. Also, it appears that the base for your suspicion on me is PCs death, I don't think this is what I would have gone for if I were scum.

[jachawk]

oh, thankfully not all that much happened. I'd like to repeat that natsu should sheep me if he indeed saw sense in thinking tojam was scummy. I'd rather have a partner on the wagon than a supporter off it.

At this point I'm thinking the mafia team is either mykonian and mochaman or Tojam2 and a hawk. I do think mochaman is innocent though. I guess I've finally seen enough to where I can say tojam might be my best vote. I really thought he was just being a newbish town the whole time, but with his playstyle he seems dangerous to keep around.

VOTE: Tojam2

@Natsu : You null read tojam2 in you last post, now you suggest that it is ok to vote him out citing his playstyle rather than pointing out why you think he is scummy. I dont think there is much scum content in tojam2's recent posts, so what makes you change your view?

[jachawk]

Sorry if I appear to be lurking, not so sure if I am the biggest lurker though .....
Here are a few points I had noted earlier ....

Some of hawkleader3's recent posts,

@ratsu I think applying pressure for the sake of applying it is only effective during a very inactive scum game or the beginning of eveey scum game

@Mochaman your two scum subjects are at L-2. Are you still deciding which one to vote on or are you waiting on purpose for a claim?

THIS PUTS TOJAM2 AT L-1

After his defense in Day 1, his posts seem to fall in the category of "need to show that he is active". Even though he provides a readslist, there is no reasoning in it and does not do much to bring out scum. Also, he has not reacted to some of the points made against him which contradicts what he held against tojam2 earlier.

This just seems weird and kind of suggests that he is content with deflecting the blame off of him without doing much to find scum, hence my vote.

I read through mykon and jachawks ISO and they never give reads on each other, have never thrown suspicion on each other barely even mentioned each other. Which I believe to be sketchy as hell.

Looking at mykonian's posts, I dont really find any of them scummy and as of now, I am fairly convinced he is town. I am not sure what you find so sketchy about this ...

[jachawk]

@ruku : you scum read me for my inactivity and call out mykonian for not sharing your view. However, you seem to have completely ignored hawkleader who is yet to make a post even though he is at L-1.
I think it is you and not mykonian who is trying to deflect attention away from his scum partner.

[jachawk]

Well, I can clearly explain my low post count. I am employed full time and get home only late at night with no access to this forum anywhere in between, sorry if this suggestes that I do not offer enough information, but I cant really do much about it.

Man I love this, you've managed to waste a whole day of time talking about about useless stuff.

I'm starting to like mocha less for town, he's been following mykon all game which seems kinda weird but I guess if they were both mafia they'd try to stay away a bit.

@Mykon, You COMPLETELY twisted my point. It doesn't matter what I think about jachawk because i've said multiple times now. You and Him are scum together. I posted my reasons a few posts back, no need to re-hash them.

There IS scum somewhere in Mykon, Jachawk, Hawkleader and I'm so sure it's mykon at this point.

@ruku : It seems that your argument is very simple, any one who does not agree with you is scum. It is a bit weird that you do not find Natsu speaking for you suspicious. This might just mean that you and him are scum, but perhaps this is not the time to discuss this.

I still think hawkleader is the best lynch, even if it is simply to avoid going through the day without a lynch.

[jachawk]

Maestro replaces hawkleader3.

24 hour deadline extension.

Edit: I'll make it 48 hours.

This is good news, It was one thing when hawkleader did not respond to questions properly. But, seeing that he was unable to post a defence even at L-1 and him being replaced kind of suggests that he might have other reasons for not being active enough. This certainly means that I do not want to lynch Maestro.

UNVOTE:

Tojam doesn't agree with me I don't think he's scum.

Mocha doesn't agree with me I don't think he's scum.

You say this but,

I'm starting to like mocha less for town, he's been following mykon all game which seems kinda weird but I guess if they were both mafia they'd try to stay away a bit.

Also, I remember that you were scumreading tojam2 and the reason you changed your view was because it dint fit well with you mykon is scum theory.

It seems you twist anything your scum reads say to support your own argument. I might be missing something but I do feel that you need to make a better case.

[jachawk]

Would've hoped for something substantial from meastro, but as of now
VOTE: meastro

[jachawk]

Vote:mykonian

Stop stalling the game.

This vote looks a bit scummy to me since it kind of votes for the guy who has a chance of getting lynched.

Ruku makes the most basic sense to me, as far as playstyle goes. When I replace into a game, I mainly look for people who match my mindset. Ruku is that player here. Willing to sheep the vote on myko just based on my own reading and you can start the day tomorrow with me having had a better read of the thread.
VOTE: myko

But I agree with tojam's last post though, Ruku's argument against mykonian was not very convincing and his conviction in voting mykonian makes him very scummy to me. Also, I am not sure if Maestro's lynching of mykonian was really unintentional, he says that he is willing to sheep ruku who 'matches his mindset'. And the later claim that the lynch was inadvertent might just have been an attempt to avoid taking responsibility.

I am not sure if looking for scum teams is the right way to go but I would love to hear Mochaman's thoughts on this.

[jachawk]

I agree with a lot of points Ruku made on Day 1, but then there was that hastened lynch of Lia. And Day 2 was spent mostly in twisting the points made to support his theory that mykonian and I are a scum team. This kind of seems apparent in some points as below,

In respose to one of the points mykonian had made,

VOTE: mykonian

The one post I actually don't mind from tojam is post 265 and that happens to be the one that mykon jumped on him for. I'm convinced it's a mykon - tojam or jac - mykon scum team.

I don't think jac is particulary obvtown, but otoh I don't need to lynch him. "w/e" when he gets pushed is pretty accurate.

It's nothing to do with you being an IC. You don't have to, because you can't. Your post about jachawk does absolutely nothing to help town, which makes it useless. Why don't you think he's obv town? Why don't you want to lynch him?

Can we please lynch one of these two already?

@mochaman : Can you please elaborate on why you dont think ruku is scum?

[jachawk]

At this point, it's most likely true that I can't do anything to prevent my own lynch today. If Mocha is the 1-Shot BP (which is likely), he was shot last night. If he's killed tonight (optimal Scum play, IMO) then tomorrow it'll be jackhawk, Natsu, Ruku, and tojam2 - with both Scum still alive that's a win for them. This is MyLo, don't know if you all noticed that or not.

I am not Scum, but I really have much ammunition to convince anybody about that. From my PoV I would still say it's most likely tojam and [Natsu / Ruku] but I doubt both Natsu and Ruku are Scum.

VOTE: tojam2

@Maestro : It appears that your post says "town will lose if I am lynched, so I am town" and does not do much to say you are town. You also suggest that tojam and [Natsu / Ruku] might be a scumteam without providing any justifications, so can you elaborate on this?

He mentioned that they were both town last page.

@tojam2 : I believe Maestro said that Ruku and Natsu might not be a scum team

[jachawk]

ruku : Looking at his posts in ISO, I am not sure if these are of aggressive town or scum trying to deflect attention away. But the points in 464 still remain and as of now he is leaning scum for me.

maestro : I liked his posts towards the end of Day 2, but his more recent posts seem to lack purpose, not what I would expect from town trying to find scum. It is weird that this is the same issue I had with hawkleader as I said in 336. But perhaps, maestro can explain better regarding this.

natsu : He does seem to be going along with the arguments made, but I am not sure what this is indicative of.

tojam2 : Looking at his posts, I cannot really see them as being scum-motivated. Also, I find it hard to believe that this is because of some devious plan to avoid getting lynched.

[jachawk]

Hi witch_hunter,
Welcome to the game

But seeing that you replaced in about 2 pages ago, I might be a bit late

[jachawk]

You especially don't need to go through your own predecessor's posts going "man what a good post" "oh boy something else I agree with" etc. ad infinitum. You have no reason to confirm your predecessor was Town in your own eyes - you've seen your Role PM. As for us, you can talk about your predecessor's posts if you like, but only in a way that adds value or expands on them. Not as a cheerleader. Tread your predecessor as you. Stop patting yourself on the back. It's fucking annoying for one. And for another, that kindof thing is a form of mindset acclimatization I seen much more often in Scum replacements.

I dont agree with what this post says, witch_hunter's way of posting provides two separate perspectives on the same topic. Considering that this is a conf town slot, revisiting the posts earlier makes a lot of sense. I believe you should have been able to see this if you had been seeing things from a pro-town mindset.

Also, it appears you have spent more words criticizing witch_hunter rather than trying to hunt scum. Your reaction does not provide anything meaningful to town and seems to say 'Shit, I am outed as scum'.

VOTE: Maestro

[jachawk]

Wow ... really great game, had a lot of fun. Thanks guys
witch_hunter : The misread notwithstanding, I really liked your analyses of the game. Just reading through your posts, all your points seem spot on and dont seem to miss much.
On a lighter note, thanks for helping me win the game

natsu : Thanks for being such a wonderful scum partner The strategy of not appearing to be a team (it just so happened that I couldnt match his level of activity) really worked well and complete credit to you for this

I think Ruku will continue to give me nightmares , dont think we could've won unless Natsu was on his good side.

tojam : intrguing play by you, though I couldnt follow half of what you were trying to do