Mini 1758: Game Over

[curiouskarmadog]

I want EVERYONE's opinion of tictac TODAY! in your next post.

stance please.

[curiouskarmadog]

also SMRP, I am curious. if you had to guess, why do you think I was blocked last night, but not the night before?

[Zulfy]

I'm not really aware of the case on tictac.

If I've been told it, I've forgotten.

@Lok, you look at scum's scumleans and scumreads for scum. Or at least I do. Either way tho it's all wine, not enough for a wagon today.

[Zulfy]

Karma what's the big thing about you being blocked? You were blocked. (Doubt there's an ascetic, Perf said the set-up was simple)

[curiouskarmadog]

here is my case from yesterday (not sure how you missed it)

what I dont understand is the acroyn kill. if you take Elyse/RC out of the picture, the only other person he attacked was tictac.

If tictac-Sircakez isn't TvT, the scum is tictac. Tictac talked about having no pressure on him, but then bothered to answer each of sircakez points on him with an individual response per quote. I'm not sure an unworried person does that.

Sorry that question didn't quite work out how you wanted it to Tictac.

Sorry that question didn't quite work out how you wanted it to Tictac.

Nah. Aside for the false dichotomy that's a good answer.
Didn't expect you to be scumreading him after 434.

What's your read on camn?

I don't think it was a false dichotomy. You acted like you weren't at all bothered by it, but then made a point to address every little thing he mentioned. For someone who didn't think there was any pressure on him, you sure respected it a lot enough to respond as you did.

I find camn hard to read. I think others are having trouble with her playstyle and calling her scum. I don't know one way or the other at this point. There's things I like an don't like.

I promise.

I'll hold you to that
VOTE: Ika

What reasoning do you have to sheep Elyse here?

What reasoning do you have to sheep Elyse here?

I townread her strongly, and I believe meta is a valid reason to suspect someone.

You believe it's valid enough to have literally zero other reasoning?

And why do you strongly townread her?

if I was scum with camn, I would not have killed acroyn because it seemed that he was one of the only people NOT attacking camn, almost (but not quite) defending him. You have to get rid of a threat...the only other person acryon was attacking was tictac.

acryon attacked tictac’s play (and interaction with cakes) and his crappy vote on the IkaTOWN wagon.

also from yesterday:

Karma-wagon reads like a policy lynch on someone who has played pretty decently so far and then made a single (albeit large) mistake.
He is far from confscum.

I'd be up for a camn wagon instead.

oh really? why no vote?

then, when the momentum became leaning toward camn, I suddenly became a scum lean.

Cakes:
The push on me day 1 was too convenient, specially since he didn't put energy into trying to push anything before he got heat on him.
Also the points he raised were largely about disagreeing with the things I said. Agree/disagree scumreading tends to be a scumtell.
Ika wagon was too fast and makes sense as scum trying to get heat off him.
On the other hand I like his read progression on day 2.
scumlean.

ckd:
770 actually can be read as a cop soft "I am town and I know he is town". This is not what camn meant, I don't think, or she would have said so.
"it's anti-town for me to explain" reads like "it would be anti-town to outright say I think you guys are masons". Not seeing a soft there.
Cakes target doesn't make sense from an experienced player. Targetting Cakes when there was practically no chance he would be chosen to make a nightkill. While it's true he could have gotten a scum PR with it, the chances of getting an usable result were higher for practically any other player. It's not like using tracking on scumreads makes much sense even if they aren't widely scumread. Info roles in general are better suited sorting players who can't be otherwise sorted (nulls). As an experienced player ckd should know this.
On the other hand a claimed VT is a safe target to fakeclaim as scum.
He was reading town to me before this whole hulabaloo thou, and that does count for something.
scumlean

camn:
dislike 'confscum', dislike pushing for early lynch, dislike the softing charge on ckd since the posts she points to do not at all look like a softs to me. She did look better to me on the latter end of day 1, but now she is back at her old scum-ways. Way too much certainty for someone who is actually town. Pushing more with personality than with actual reasons. I like Cakes point about PR speculation.
I did think the ultimatum was towny of her, but it's drowned out by being otherwise scummy.
scum

out of all of his scum leans, he thinks camn is the most scum, but still refuses to vote him.

also, again note the relationship with cakes.

I think if tictac flips scum, Cakes is indeed his partner.


- - -

if the above is too much to read.

tictac was on the ikaTOWN wagon for little reason
acroyn attacked tictac's shitty IkaTOWN vote.
acroyn died (why?)
tictac thought camn was scum, but did not vote him (why?)

VOTE: tictac

[curiouskarmadog]

my issue was I wasnt blocked night 2.

when I come out with this case and make a push on tictac, I am suddenly a threat to scum and I am blocked.

[Zulfy]

Imagine another PR being blocked night 2, should they instantly suspect the person they were pushing on day 2?

[a plain farmer]

CKD brings up a good point regarding his results, and if he's going to claim his Night 2 results today regardless, then he should probably just go ahead and reveal them.

CKD being blocked last night and not Night 2 is indeed weird, but I'm not sure it can be specifically assigned to tictac. I would have thought a scumteam with tictac on it would have had CKD blocked even before CKD came out against tictac. CKD is still the only one who has indicated in this thread that they have some kind of active ability in their role, so unless scum have sniffed out something, I'd have thought any scumteam in possession of a roleblock would have used it on him both nights.

Karma what's the big thing about you being blocked? You were blocked. (Doubt there's an ascetic, Perf said the set-up was simple)

I'm not sure if ascetic is "simple", but it is normal. (Note that that page also lists a few other roles that could have caused the observed effect)

@CKD
I'll take a quick scan through tictac's ISO and let you know what I think.

[a plain farmer]

I see in tictac's ISO some posts that ping my gut as scum, some as town, and a lot that are null.

Scum-wise, he's had a tendency in this game to interpret others' posts in a more negative light than I feel one would were the posts encountered naturally. Also, as CKD pointed out, his non-vote on camn on D2 looks really sketchy next to the strength of his scumread on her.

On the town side, he seems to go out of his way to get to the truth of the matter. He could be doing it for the towncred, but I think some such posts (such as 598) didn't even need to be made were he scum.

So I can see him being scum, but he's not my top scumread.

Regarding SRMP, I could see how I might be misinterpreting as scummy what might actually be an unrefined playstyle. So it could be the case that tictac is scum and SRMP isn't. It could also be the case that they're both scum, since the post that leads me to think their scumhood is mutually exclusive is but one short post that might not have been well thought out.

But on the whole I'm scumreading SRMP more than tictac, so I'll keep my vote there.

[tictac]

hmmmm....if i was a betting man, I would put money on tictac showing up and voting Zulfy too.

You'd win that bet.
VOTE: Zulfy

[Zulfy]

egad

[tictac]

so why the fuck was I blocked last night but not the night before?

Seeing a few possibilities here.
1. Didn't actually happen and you are making it up to have fewer verifiable datapoints.
2. lurkerscum wasn't present during the night to submit the action.(rare, but it does happen)
3. Scum bought RCs "copclaim" and wasted a block on him just in case he was doc-saved. (would prob mean both remaining scum are newbs)
4. odd-night blocker. (unlikely since this is supposed to be a simple setup. @Zulf where did Performer say that?)

As for your theory:
-Why would I fail to block you night 2?
- Using tracking on your scumreads doesn't make sense. I told you so and explained why. Why would I think you were more likely to track me because you were scumreading me after that?

[tictac]

egad

Why is it surprising to you? I was pretty explicit about scumreading you yesterday.

[tictac]

@farmer I'm thinking Rando is town.
-155 mistakes camn with another player. I don't think this can happen if he is scum with her. I think it's a real mistake because it's consistent with his play otherwise. (@Rando Who were you thinking of there?)
- I don't think the avatar-thing would have been so big a deal if they were both scum. camn would have waited for the night and then asked him to get one. As it was she was unnecessarily drawing heat from it.

[tictac]

forgot to link
155

[tictac]

@CKD
addressing the case (again)
acryon: Didn't even vote for me. Most extreme stance he made about me was 'scummier than cakez'. Would make no sense for scum!me to kill him for that.
Ika vote: Lots of people voted for same exact reasoning I did. You are just scumreading disagreement there.
786 and850: I was more interested in farmer at the time. I was scumreading camn

as well

, but there was pressure on camn from others and none on farmer. My vote was thus more constructive on farmer. The day wasn't ending and I have no interest in quicklynches so saw no need to consolidate. Also, why are you scumreading me for speaking out against your lynch?

Now, go do something productive instead.

[tictac]

CKD brings up a good point regarding his results, and if he's going to claim his Night 2 results today regardless, then he should probably just go ahead and reveal them.

Agreed.

also:
@CKD: What is your theory on why scum seems to be prioritizing killing conftown over an investigative kill?

[curiouskarmadog]

As for your theory:
-Why would I fail to block you night 2?

a.) I never said YOU failed to block me.

b.) I never said you FAILED to block me.

why are you assuming I thought you were the Roleblocker?

nobody said anything about fails.


All I said was I wasnt blocked Night 2. I never said I thought YOU were the roleblocker, I think you were part of a team,,,but never said YOU


scum slip.


confirm vote tictac.

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD: What is your theory on why scum seems to be prioritizing killing conftown over an investigative kill?

you tell me.

[Some Random Mafia Player]

-155 mistakes camn with another player. I don't think this can happen if he is scum with her. I think it's a real mistake because it's consistent with his play otherwise. (@Rando Who were you thinking of there?)

believe it was you

[curiouskarmadog]

. Also, why are you scumreading me for speaking out against your lynch?

In your history of playing this game. As scum, have you ever defended town just to get town cred. When did you actually "defend" me? How many votes did I have?

[tictac]

confirm vote tictac.

I show you the holes in your case and your response is to scumread me harder?

You are reaching hard here.
"Why would I fail to block you night 2?" == "If I was scum I could have suggested blocking you in scum-thread or blocked you myself if I was a roleblocker. Either way I would have had the power to cause you to be blocked. Why would I have not done that?"
I was being concise.

I've been thinking you are town from how hard camn pushed ya, but maybe I was wrong there.

It doesn't seem to be bothering you at all that your view of events is logically inconsistent.

VOTE: CKD
I asked you questions.
Answer them.

@CKD: What is your theory on why scum seems to be prioritizing killing conftown over an investigative kill?

you tell me.

So the answer doesn't interest you enough to have formed theories?

In your history of playing this game. As scum, have you ever defended town just to get town cred. When did you actually "defend" me? How many votes did I have?

Never played as actual scum. Had a pseudo-SK once, but pretty much played it as town since I still wanted mafia dead.
Defended ya on 786. Ya linked it, so I don't see how you could have failed to read it.

[Zulfy]

On the town side, he seems to go out of his way to get to the truth of the matter. He could be doing it for the towncred, but I think some such posts (such as 598) didn't even need to be made were he scum.

I disagree about that. He needs to attack SOMEONE if he's scum to look like he's scumhunting. >.

[Zulfy]

egad

Why is it surprising to you? I was pretty explicit about scumreading you yesterday.

No sarcasm see.
Still scumreading me?

What's all the roles right now? Elyse-Mason, CKD-???

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD: What is your theory on why scum seems to be prioritizing killing conftown over an investigative kill?

you tell me.

So the answer doesn't interest you enough to have formed theories?

In your history of playing this game. As scum, have you ever defended town just to get town cred. When did you actually "defend" me? How many votes did I have?

Never played as actual scum. Had a pseudo-SK once, but pretty much played it as town since I still wanted mafia dead.
Defended ya on 786. Ya linked it, so I don't see how you could have failed to read it.

LOL that is what I thought. I call you out on

your scum slip

and you immediately vote me without even acknowledging them.

yeah I got theories, but I am not going to tell you how to play the game. One theory is obvious though (and I have said as much). I wasnt a threat to you that night and by defending me, you thought I wouldnt track you.

THE DAY I START TO PUSH A CASE YOU BLOCK ME.

now you are OMGUS voting me