Shaman Mafia [Endgame]

[AngryPidgeon]

I dunno, I thought the structure of the last ritual heavily implied that it would just be me and Copper passing it and that passing the ritual meant you would get something from it, regardless of your alignment. It was a poor assumption and I'm glad I clarified with the mod.

[Brian Skies]

I have very little interest lynching someone based on the ritual when we can just no lynch and do it again.

[AngryPidgeon]

Talk to me about TTH's claim. Why do you think it might be a real claim?

I could pitch the same question in reverse. Why is it fake? She claimed a one-shot cop with an innocent on Egg. I like setup spec. I really do. This game is totally stumping me in that department though and I have no delusions about that.

I thought TTH's claim looked town because of how she claimed it, not what she claimed. The only argument I see against her is that Spiffeh is "CCing" her with a one-shot cop of his own that was given to him through some unknown means and has been proven to be at best questionable.

[Brian Skies]

You're reminding me of Tales of You AP right now when I hard CC'ed your buddy. :/

[AngryPidgeon]

Which one was that? I honestly can't even remember who had what role in that game. You guys were a ... role copier? I don't remember how that all shook down.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think we blocked you, delayed Katsuki. Katsuki claimed something and our claim was corroborated by BRO who had results on me because I was a godfather. dude that game was a hot mess and I believed most of what I said there because I KNEW I was right because we blocked a million people every night.

[Brian Skies]

I think the way she claimed it and the way she's handled both her 'role' and claim are scummy. There's a really good DGB claim about it only taking seconds to refer to a PM, but it taking a lifetime to make a good fakeclaim. Her mechanics are shady. You're telling me she's able to check someone in the middle of the night? Or how her flavor is completely different from what's flipped and it looks like it was crafted to fit her claim? I also don't think her play this game has been particularly townish at all either. You ignoring 'what she claimed' bothers me too since that should be pretty damn important. And it's almost as bad as that hilarious cop role you claimed in Tales of You.

[Brian Skies]

Which one was that? I honestly can't even remember who had what role in that game. You guys were a ... role copier? I don't remember how that all shook down.

I tried to copy you but got roleblocked by Mara. Kats hard Cc'ed you, died, and no one looked your direction again. I assumed you were confirmed scum so I copied that Fox and Hound hydra. I got nothing but they claimed to have taken an action. You were like 'why would they lie about that.' It was the day before lylo but the rest of town imploded and Despbros thought they were a secret Mafia Traitor or something.

[AngryPidgeon]

hilarious cop role

I gotta say that might be the pinnacle of my scumgame.

You are right I shouldn't ignore what she claimed and I thought about looking back to find it but felt too lazy. I'll hunt in her ISO for it now.

[AngryPidgeon]

I didn't really want to have to claim, but I supposed with the deadline coming up I must.

I'm a town power animal, the Hound. My ability is that I can check the alignment of someone once in the game, but it's dependent on the Upper World-Middle World-Lower World mechanic and it involves making a separate QT thread with my target (which is why I really wasn't fazed by having two QT links sent to me last night). This is part of the reason why I tried to not leave that much of a trace about where I was at night unless I felt it was necessary. In my role PM, my ability is flavored as me looking for a friend or discovering an enemy (paraphrased, of course).

Since I knew I wouldn't get nightkilled, I've been saving my ability for the smallest pool of players possible. I tried to be as transparent about my reads during the day as I could to avoid getting lynched but I guess I overestimated that.

What is shady about these mechanics exactly? It isn't described super well, but it sounds like she gets an additional QT with the target. It would be on Egg to explain what happened on that night since he was investigated. I know Egg mentioned alternate Qts and something about bending QTs to do with his role though? What the hell was that about?

The bit about waiting for fewer people to be around is definitely a little bit shady, but not extremely so.

Why is the DGB bit relevant? There were 4 days between the claim and her last post. Yes that gives her time to make it, but really it is just evidence that she flaked for that timeframe and came back and claim. Its impossible to say whether she spent time concocting it or just claimed on the spot.

[AngryPidgeon]

Kats hard Cc'ed you, died, and no one looked your direction again.

Wait I remember. Katsuki was the delay role. I think we blocked him on that night. He claimed to have delayed me which we knew was impossible because we blocked him and BRO was able to back up our claim anyways.

[AngryPidgeon]

You were like 'why would they lie about that.'

I probably did say that. So you think me saying that about Spiffeh is scummy. Im not ruling out Spiffeh being scum here. Obviously there is something up with his claim but Im really not sure what and UA claimed a million things yesterday so its all kind of a circus from my perspective.

Do you think Spiffeh is scum and faked a guilty on UA and got lucky they were 3rd party? Because if not that the only thing I see is that Spiffeh had reason to think they were 3rd party and decided to just go for a gambit. In that situation it really doesn't make sense to rope yourself into a blatant lie when the whole point of the gambit is to get a 3p lynched and not out yourself in the process.

[Brian Skies]

My issue with her is that she claimed she was hoping to wait for a smaller pool of players to use it on, which rubbed me the wrong way as it can easily backfire on her without towncred.

The QT's are a major issue for me because she's shown a major lack of interest in anything except whatever QT she claimed to have with Egg. Considering there are fake QT's going around and there are times she's unaccounted for in the night phase, it's a major red flag that she's even claiming to be able to make one of these. Not to mention the same night Egg used whatever his ability is, he got a fake lower world (which Copper and I confirmed was fake to him) as well as whatever QT he had with TTH, so it's possible they were both given to him by TTH. The whole 'Hound' interaction is shady as well and I don't believe it's something that couldn't have been faked.

The issue I have with her claim as far as DGB's quote goes is how tiresome it is to get her full claim out. She's continuously avoided explaining her mechanics and she has still failed to do so now.

[Brian Skies]

You were like 'why would they lie about that.'

I probably did say that. So you think me saying that about Spiffeh is scummy. Im not ruling out Spiffeh being scum here. Obviously there is something up with his claim but Im really not sure what and UA claimed a million things yesterday so its all kind of a circus from my perspective.

Do you think Spiffeh is scum and faked a guilty on UA and got lucky they were 3rd party? Because if not that the only thing I see is that Spiffeh had reason to think they were 3rd party and decided to just go for a gambit. In that situation it really doesn't make sense to rope yourself into a blatant lie when the whole point of the gambit is to get a 3p lynched and not out yourself in the process.

That was just me referencing what happened with my hard CC that game. Your inability to comprehend why Fox was scummy there is closer to your interaction with TTH's claim here. But it's still not why I referenced that line.

I don't believe it's possible for Spiffeh to be scum unless there are two scum left. This is based on me disabling him and there being a nightkill. I also don't think he's scum anyway, and I'm only considering it because of what's been claimed and flipped.

[copper223]

@Brian
There are two scum players left or this game is not balanced, 10 vs 2 vs 1 even if you assume the 1 is a Saulus that needs to be NK'd to switch sides, a claim I still have problems with, is not viable for the scum-team.

Spiffeh does not make the kill yesterday after being disabled (and in this format he knows he has been disabled since he can't travel), so you blocking him doesn't say much about his alignment.

Why did Spiffeh fake claim a check on UA and why did he say he did not receive your fake empower? How do you explain the night there were no kills?

[Brian Skies]

@Brian
There are two scum players left or this game is not balanced, 10 vs 2 vs 1 even if you assume the 1 is a Saulus that needs to be NK'd to switch sides, a claim I still have problems with, is not viable for the scum-team.

Spiffeh does not make the kill yesterday after being disabled (and in this format he knows he has been disabled since he can't travel), so you blocking him doesn't say much about his alignment.

Why did Spiffeh fake claim a check on UA and why did he say he did not receive your fake empower? How do you explain the night there were no kills?

Considering we have to eliminate all threats, 9v3v1 seems pretty heavy for town to win considering we'd only have two mislynches to play with and we lost one to a modkill. I'm not saying it can't be 9v3v1, just that it'd be really difficult to win, especially with the 1 trying to fuck over the 9 at every turn (but I'm not Fate, so who knows?).

Spiffeh could be scum. But we know he wasn't the one who made the kill unless you think I'm scum (which is understandable even though I was jailkept so it can't be Spiffeh/Brian, but it's not verifiable so whatever).

[Brian Skies]

Why did Spiffeh fake claim a check on UA and why did he say he did not receive your fake empower? How do you explain the night there were no kills?

Why would he know I empowered him? My role doesn't say anything about notifying my target that I targeted them, just that I would empower them.

Copper + TTH is still on the table. It's also possible the jesters were indeed conditionally bulletproof and were shot in the face that night. The latter is something I can easily see considering they're 3rd party.

[Brian Skies]

why did he say he did not receive your fake empower?

Also, he did not claim this?

[copper223]

We don't even know if UA was Saulus or a conditional BP to begin with, 9 v 3 v 1 seems pretty balanced if the 1 can win with both factions.

Because unless your empower did nothing it would be noticed when he got a different result from what was expected.

[copper223]

You asked him (twice I think) if he noticed any difference compared to the ability he said he used and he answered that he did not.

[Brian Skies]

We don't even know if UA was Saulus or a conditional BP to begin with, 9 v 3 v 1 seems pretty balanced if the 1 can win with both factions.

Because unless your empower did nothing it would be noticed when he got a different result from what was expected.

9v3v1 isn't balanced for town since the 1 can easily just side with the scumteam and endgame us on Day 3. But who cares? We're still looking for scum #2 anyway.

I don't know what my ability can do. But what he claimed seems believable to me and it was in a similar format to the abilities I received from the bird. He also seemed to have no idea what I was talking about as far as being blocked until today.

[Brian Skies]

You asked him (twice I think) if he noticed any difference compared to the ability he said he used and he answered that he did not.

I asked him whether he had either ability beforehand or if he received any future effects, both of which he replied no.

[copper223]

Does your ability include possible negative effects like screwing up his check?

[Brian Skies]

No. It only says two things. His role becomes empowered and he becomes disabled the following night. I think it's possible UA defaulted to the scum alignment on investigations since they claimed to have started with that alignment.

[copper223]

The balanced number of scum players in a vanilla game is the square root of the pool, for 12 that's 3.5.