Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[pisskop]

Votecount 2.09

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Aneninen

- (3) acryon, Burning Crystal, davesaz

kop

- (2) chilledtea, Ranger

Burning Crystal

- (2) Aneninen, Mad King Ashnard

kaintepes

- (2) xtoxm, Almost50

Almost50

- (1)

chilledtea

- (1) kaintepes

Ranger

- (1) kop

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Not Voting

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With 11 Alive it takes 6 to Lynch!
Day 02 Deadline is (expired on 2016-03-21 11:30:00).

[Aneninen]

Anen, you have a few points in 1315/1318 that I'm pretty sure even I could defend against, and I'm not Burning Crystal. I'll let them respond to them, but needless to say: I don't think you're right, here.

Ask your questions.

And I have something else to tell, and this goes for everyone.
Read the start of the Day again.
You'll see that the "case" on me came out of nowhere. BurningCrystal and Acryon desperately needed a reason for wagoning me. Why? Because of my naked vote. They thought I'm the Cop but they, of course, couldn't be sure... until I'm at L–1. Read that part again with this "what if..." assumption.
Now, compare those pages to the later ones. Posts are coming and going but their case never changes, never actually develops.
And no, I'm not telling whether I'm the Cop or not.

[Burning Crystal]

@Ranger, You seem to know Anen is reaching and fabricating things. Why no vote on Anen?

1315 and 1318 - I'm not quoting all those.

Yeah, the difference between you and me is that I'm actually commenting on things and discussing reads other than you. You're not. Acryon was listening to the points against his read and commenting. You're just doing verbal poop. You're also not being voted for a single post. Not at all. I've said why you've been voted several times.

Having two solid scumreads and then a poe pool of possible scum is not assuming a three person scumteam. Rather, it's assuming you two are aligned and the other scum (whatever faction) should be found in that pool. Your first scumslip theory that you latched on was proven bad, so now you're trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

I find the end to 1318 particularly amusing since I actually stand up to government bureaucrats as my day job. Kinda scary what happened in Southern California though. I play mafia to forget that shit though.
The setup thing has been explained so I'm not going to belabor those points.

Your post conviently doesn't respond to people realizing my motivations but to whine and complain. What are your thoughts on Kain Tepes. Chilled Tea?


Oh and also, your last post is particularly bad. Softing but not softing cop and trying to change the motivation to being a rolefish when I never have been voting you for that.

Your last posts are trying to see what sticks on us rather than engaging people.

~Titus

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus, what are your reads on Kop and Acryon?

[Aneninen]

@Ranger, You seem to know Anen is reaching and fabricating things. Why no vote on Anen?

She had questions, not knowledge.
Yet again, you're misrepresenting the events.

Yeah, the difference between you and me is that I'm actually commenting on things and discussing reads other than you. You're not. Acryon was listening to the points against his read and commenting. You're just doing verbal poop. You're also not being voted for a single post. Not at all. I've said why you've been voted several times.

The good old trick. That's the difference

because you're saying so

. I've actually been commenting on many things, the problem is that you haven't liked them. Where's that "several times", by the way?
And my wagon was launched

because of one single post

, even if you post the opposite. (Even if I explained that post.)

Your first scumslip theory that you latched on was proven bad

Where was that proof again?

I find the end to 1318 particularly amusing since I actually stand up to government bureaucrats as my day job. Kinda scary what happened in Southern California though. I play mafia to forget that shit though.

About this, maybe post-game.
In our country things are, you know, a bit different. Here the government wants to make everyone but their buddies into slaves and get rid of everyone who's ill.

Your post conviently doesn't respond to people realizing my motivations but to whine and complain. What are your thoughts on Kain Tepes. Chilled Tea?

Chilled Tea I think is town. I can see real scumhunting effort there. The only problem is his predecessor, who looked much worse. I don't entirely get that Kop-read either.
KainThraddash is a big question mark. Firstly because of (ongoing, mustn't explain). Secondly, his post are changing. Slowly, very slowly – and that's the point. If he had a scumbuddy, the change would be much faster (or there would be no change at all). This, obviously, tells us nothing if we're in a Setup with SK.

By the way, Kuroi scumread Almost50 too. He could have targetted him as well. Or maybe Davesaz (so as to block the Nightkill at the other end).

[Aneninen]

Titus, what are your reads on Kop and Acryon?

Who the brown-pink flag flying on a rusty pole are you?

[Ranger]

Ask your questions.

Basically I have no problem with a POE pool (what they actually said), which is not a "these players are scum" pool (what you assumed they said). I have no problem with their setup spec,

especially

not from Titus (I'd frankly be suspicious if Titus did NOT do setup spec short of the game being a full-on open...and maybe even then!). I also don't have a problem with their reads in of themselves: I think their scumread on you is

wrong

, but I do not think it is scum-motivated.

So like I said. I don't think they're scum.

[Ranger]

(You're probably right about acryon being scum, though!)

[Xtoxm]

i'm lurking like a scumfuck aren't i

i should stop doing that

but you guys should stop belligerently refusing to wagon my lazy vote park

[Xtoxm]

anen would be a good compromise. kop would too. he's spoken far too much without giving me a townread, he's probably scum.

in the mean time:

His attitude is bad. His posts are bad. His reads are bad. His shouting is bad. Him calling me scum is especially bad. I don't want him in endgame. I don't want him here tomorrow.

Vote KT, for great justice.

This is case. Sheep it.

[Xtoxm]

also

the point against BC is still there

not that my heart was/is in it

[chilledtea]

I am always ok with KT lynch. I am not sure about Anen, but he has given me strong town vibes during day 1. Just difficult to see him being scum.
I would be happiest with kop lynch.

[Almost50]

By the way, Kuroi scumread Almost50 too. He could have targeted him as well. Or maybe Davesaz (so as to block the Nightkill at the other end).

I'm sorry but neither is very likely. If someone crumbs a PR and you're the JK then they're either the Cop (any of the 12 scenarios, given Kuroi didn't believe me), The Tracker, a BP, a Vig or a PGO. The latter would probably kill you. The Vig should be given the chance to shoot someone. The BP doesn't get protected bc they won't die on N1 anyway. Both the Cop & Tracker need to produce results so you don't actively block them. In short, it would've sucked if he blocked dave to protect him.

As for me, I'm either a WBG or I'm scum. In the event I'm the WBG you don't block me either. Even if you don't buy it, you opt to protect someone you think is town. You don't even protect someone you're not sure about bc you would want the Cop to be able to investigate them.

In all cases; Kuroi targeting me/dave is possible but highly improbable.

[Almost50]

I am always ok with KT lynch. I am not sure about Anen, but he has given me strong town vibes during day 1. Just difficult to see him being scum.
I would be happiest with kop lynch.

So basically, you, xtoxm & myself agree it should either be KT or Kop (or -considering PK is the mod- we can always try to lynch Kuroi)

<<< @pisskop

I don't get it. I wish to make it clear that my play in any one game does not reflect my opinion of any player. Usually its nothing personal

[Kop]

I am always ok with KT lynch. I am not sure about Anen, but he has given me strong town vibes during day 1. Just difficult to see him being scum.
I would be happiest with kop lynch.

So basically, you, xtoxm & myself agree it should either be KT or Kop (or -considering PK is the mod- we can always try to lynch Kuroi)

<<< @pisskop

I don't get it. I wish to make it clear that my play in any one game does not reflect my opinion of any player. Usually its nothing personal

I'm not following?

[Kop]

The inconsistencies shown by a few, unbelievable.

[Kop]

Going to have lunch, then read over a few things.

[Almost50]

I don't get it. I wish to make it clear that my play in any one game does not reflect my opinion of any player. Usually its nothing personal

I seem to remember you saying something about you once trying to lynch a dead player in LyLo. If I got mixed up, then I'm sorry.

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

[Almost50]

The inconsistencies shown by a few, unbelievable.

Are you talking about Lallana? Sturridge?? Or the whole bunch of them??

Seriously though, why don't you try a bit harder to clear your name and deter the -hypothetical- wagon on you?

[Kop]

The inconsistencies shown by a few, unbelievable.

Are you talking about Lallana? Sturridge?? Or the whole bunch of them??

Seriously though, why don't you try a bit harder to clear your name and deter the -hypothetical- wagon on you?

It's the weak mentality in the squa........

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

Regarding BC :

How is changing you mind "inconsistencies"? Inconsistency is when you have two opinions at the same time which contradict each other. Or you could say inconsistency is when a player deliberately keeps loose opinions so that he can keep changing his opinion as the tide changes.

BC came and defended herself and almost50's post gave me new perspective on BC's situation. Reads change with time. They don't remain Rock solid same throughout the game, that is actually bad play and is called as tunnelling. It is also a result of close mindedness.

Regarding xtoxm :

xtoxm was a strong town read during day 1. Unfortunately he hasn't posted much at all during day 2 and that has reduced my town read of him. Other than that I can't consider him scummy. It isn't that he is town because he is posting little, it is that he was 80% town before on day 1, now because he is posting little (for whatever reason) he is 70% town.

Regarding MKA :

I have had a very strong town read on this slot. Their push against BC seemed very genuine and in general I can't see that much wrong with their game. It is just frustrating that both MKA and xtoxm who are high town reads of mine aren't playing much.
If MKA is scum it will be like a shock, that is why I am scared to think of it. Ultimately some of my scum reads are because of Process of Elimination.

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

Regarding BC :

How is changing you mind "inconsistencies"? Inconsistency is when you have two opinions at the same time which contradict each other. Or you could say inconsistency is when a player deliberately keeps loose opinions so that he can keep changing his opinion as the tide changes.

BC came and defended herself and almost50's post gave me new perspective on BC's situation. Reads change with time. They don't remain Rock solid same throughout the game, that is actually bad play and is called as tunnelling. It is also a result of close mindedness.

Regarding xtoxm :

xtoxm was a strong town read during day 1. Unfortunately he hasn't posted much at all during day 2 and that has reduced my town read of him. Other than that I can't consider him scummy. It isn't that he is town because he is posting little, it is that he was 80% town before on day 1, now because he is posting little (for whatever reason) he is 70% town.

Regarding MKA :

I have had a very strong town read on this slot. Their push against BC seemed very genuine and in general I can't see that much wrong with their game. It is just frustrating that both MKA and xtoxm who are high town reads of mine aren't playing much.
If MKA is scum it will be like a shock, that is why I am scared to think of it. Ultimately some of my scum reads are because of Process of Elimination.

Is that the same tunnelling your using on me then? You've scum read me pretty much since you walked into the game, I don't actually think you've changed your mind regarding myself, and I asked you before to give me a post I can actually defend myself with, I don't recall you actually doing that. Your vote is on me again, and still haven't given me a case to answer too.

[chilledtea]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

Regarding BC :

How is changing you mind "inconsistencies"? Inconsistency is when you have two opinions at the same time which contradict each other. Or you could say inconsistency is when a player deliberately keeps loose opinions so that he can keep changing his opinion as the tide changes.

BC came and defended herself and almost50's post gave me new perspective on BC's situation. Reads change with time. They don't remain Rock solid same throughout the game, that is actually bad play and is called as tunnelling. It is also a result of close mindedness.

Regarding xtoxm :

xtoxm was a strong town read during day 1. Unfortunately he hasn't posted much at all during day 2 and that has reduced my town read of him. Other than that I can't consider him scummy. It isn't that he is town because he is posting little, it is that he was 80% town before on day 1, now because he is posting little (for whatever reason) he is 70% town.

Regarding MKA :

I have had a very strong town read on this slot. Their push against BC seemed very genuine and in general I can't see that much wrong with their game. It is just frustrating that both MKA and xtoxm who are high town reads of mine aren't playing much.
If MKA is scum it will be like a shock, that is why I am scared to think of it. Ultimately some of my scum reads are because of Process of Elimination.

Is that the same tunnelling your using on me then? You've scum read me pretty much since you walked into the game, I don't actually think you've changed your mind regarding myself, and I asked you before to give me a post I can actually defend myself with, I don't recall you actually doing that. Your vote is on me again, and still haven't given me a case to answer too.

It is not a single post.

Also come on now. I didn't tunnel you. Even during day 1 when I voted you, I decided to take it easy and decided that BC and texcat were the best options.
I will try to express my doubts regarding you using several posts.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Texcat

I'm down with that.

If we can't get any further with this wagon, I propose a no lynch. We are walking into dangerous territory if we go from wagon to wagon and get them close to a lynch, before changing due to roleclaims etc.

Even KainTepes recognized that no lynch was probably a bad idea. Your act surrounding "outing" power roles, seems fake. This is because I don't think we have that many power roles anyways. One of them is already nk'd, two of them have kind of claimed. When you made that post, all three of them had claimed. It seemed a fake feel.

Spoiler:

Right now this is where am at.

Town - Almost50, Davesaz

Leaning Town - Acryon, ChilledTea, Xtom

Can't get a read properly - Mad King Ashnard, Ranger

Leaning Scum - Aneninen, Burning Crystal,

Scum - Kaintepes

So I wouldn't mind a lynch out of the bottom three.

Talking about inconsistencies, out of all the people KainTepes is supposedly your scummiest read. He actually hasn't done anything at all to even be considered the scummiest person, and what's more, you are doing nothing to push for his lynch even considering the fact that there are so many willing to go the route of policy lynching him including myself.

I mean, even apart from these two posts, your opinions have never been concrete. You have never pushed for anything, and it seems like you don't have much belief in your own reads. You proceed to vote Ranger later on for eg: what came of that?

I definitely think you are scum now. There is a difference between day 1 lingering suspicion and day 2 more concrete suspicion and this is my day 2 suspicion.

[Kop]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Kop

I still think anen is town though. I have a strong town read on MKA. Town read on xtoxm, and town read on acryon. I will set aside BC for now.

That leaves davesaz, almost - I think they are town.

Ranger - I think is scum

KT - Absolutely could be anything. Probably scum.

The problem here is - even using process of elimination, I am finding it difficult to find scummy players. There is a chance I am reading some of these guys wrongly.

xtoxmx, whenenver he has posted seemed town to me. But he isn't saying much anyways.

MKA could be that boss player of a scum. Like I am scared to think of MKA as scum. It is possible anen is scum.

This is all assuming BC is not scum.

One thing is certain, I think Kop is scum. I am once again having my double think regarding BC.

Why would you be scared to think MKA as scum?

You've flipped your reads over that many times, soon enough, you may just get to the conclusion you are looking for. You've gone a whole 180 on Burning Crystal, then unvoted them and now your going to double think about BC.

This is what I'm getting from the inconsistencies of your reads. What made you change your mind and unvote Burning Crystal and now your going back onto that read to double check?

xtoxm may be posting little, how can you call that towny? Is it the style of his posts? Or is there no possibility that he could be posting in this manner that he doesn't give much away whilst trying to act towny as scum?

Regarding BC :

How is changing you mind "inconsistencies"? Inconsistency is when you have two opinions at the same time which contradict each other. Or you could say inconsistency is when a player deliberately keeps loose opinions so that he can keep changing his opinion as the tide changes.

BC came and defended herself and almost50's post gave me new perspective on BC's situation. Reads change with time. They don't remain Rock solid same throughout the game, that is actually bad play and is called as tunnelling. It is also a result of close mindedness.

Regarding xtoxm :

xtoxm was a strong town read during day 1. Unfortunately he hasn't posted much at all during day 2 and that has reduced my town read of him. Other than that I can't consider him scummy. It isn't that he is town because he is posting little, it is that he was 80% town before on day 1, now because he is posting little (for whatever reason) he is 70% town.

Regarding MKA :

I have had a very strong town read on this slot. Their push against BC seemed very genuine and in general I can't see that much wrong with their game. It is just frustrating that both MKA and xtoxm who are high town reads of mine aren't playing much.
If MKA is scum it will be like a shock, that is why I am scared to think of it. Ultimately some of my scum reads are because of Process of Elimination.

Is that the same tunnelling your using on me then? You've scum read me pretty much since you walked into the game, I don't actually think you've changed your mind regarding myself, and I asked you before to give me a post I can actually defend myself with, I don't recall you actually doing that. Your vote is on me again, and still haven't given me a case to answer too.

It is not a single post.

Also come on now. I didn't tunnel you. Even during day 1 when I voted you, I decided to take it easy and decided that BC and texcat were the best options.
I will try to express my doubts regarding you using several posts.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Texcat

I'm down with that.

If we can't get any further with this wagon, I propose a no lynch. We are walking into dangerous territory if we go from wagon to wagon and get them close to a lynch, before changing due to roleclaims etc.

Even KainTepes recognized that no lynch was probably a bad idea. Your act surrounding "outing" power roles, seems fake. This is because I don't think we have that many power roles anyways. One of them is already nk'd, two of them have kind of claimed. When you made that post, all three of them had claimed. It seemed a fake feel.

Spoiler:

Right now this is where am at.

Town - Almost50, Davesaz

Leaning Town - Acryon, ChilledTea, Xtom

Can't get a read properly - Mad King Ashnard, Ranger

Leaning Scum - Aneninen, Burning Crystal,

Scum - Kaintepes

So I wouldn't mind a lynch out of the bottom three.

Talking about inconsistencies, out of all the people KainTepes is supposedly your scummiest read. He actually hasn't done anything at all to even be considered the scummiest person, and what's more, you are doing nothing to push for his lynch even considering the fact that there are so many willing to go the route of policy lynching him including myself.

I mean, even apart from these two posts, your opinions have never been concrete. You have never pushed for anything, and it seems like you don't have much belief in your own reads. You proceed to vote Ranger later on for eg: what came of that?

I definitely think you are scum now. There is a difference between day 1 lingering suspicion and day 2 more concrete suspicion and this is my day 2 suspicion.

3 had claimed at the point of me suggesting a no lynch? Who were they? As far as I was aware, there was a crumb (I didn't see it), WB, and a VT. It doesn't really matter about being very little PR's in this setup, there was no conclusion at that point, that pointed out how many PR's are in the game. I don't really see a big problem with a no lynch on day one, especially when things are going from wagon to wagon, and the timing of the last wagon that formed. If it was no where near the deadline, it wouldn't have concerned me or even crossed my mind.

I'm scum reading KT because I don't get any town vibes from his posts. But I'd rather let the whole trio of suspicious activity within anen/ranger/BC take it's course, as I strongly believe those 3 contain the most information that can be produced. KT's lynch, unfortunately doesn't give a great deal of information that could link things together, that's why he's a policy lynch.

So day one is lingering suspicion, day 2 is concrete, I don't see this concrete evidence that you are claiming?