Shaman Mafia [Endgame]

[copper223]

VOTE: Spiffeh

[copper223]

I thought it was light and darkness, where does the fire connection come from? The only reason I would join today is to make it succeed.

[copper223]

Yesterday night in the lower world Fate gave me a personality test and I came out as a monkey, he then wrote via PM that I met a monkey in the forest and it would give me it's powers if I earned it's trust, I asked him how I could do so and he said I should meet her again tonight and how to do so, abilities coming from the ritual therefore would likely just be wasted on me.

[copper223]

@Brian
Ok, put AP on it and when it fails try to lynch the proper players (those being AP and Spiffeh in that order), if it succeeds it's probably Spiffeh/TTH and I screwed up by not lynching her when I had the hammer d3 so I'll pay the penance of having to try and defend myself in a bad lylo situation, maybe the monkey can give me the upper hand.

[copper223]

If there is a recipient it should be Egg.

[copper223]

Explain how you got an Illusion instead of a Chaos result.

[copper223]

I don't have a townread on TTH, I have a stronger scumread on you.

[copper223]

If you are town Spiffeh, take a good look at those that are still town-reading you.

[copper223]

@AP
I think you are scum because on one hand you seem annoyed we are speculating about the setup, something unavoidable given Spiffeh's failed check, TTH's claim, Egg's fake QTs, the ritual mechanic and UA's third party flip yesterday, while on the other hand you are allegedly basing

all

of your reasoning for voting today at likely mylo on speculating about the setup (in particular on the fail and success conditions of the ritual), now that is bullshit if I have ever read some.

I further think that makes you a likely partner for Spiffeh because he has the most to lose if we start picking apart his check claim, for instance if you think it through the chances of a redirect are almost nil.

You are also misrepping me when saying that I am ignoring the ritual, in fact one of my first considerations today involved one of you and Brian possibly being scum because of it, I am simply not excluding the cases where you are town despite the failure like you are doing, likely just for convenience's sake as it gives you a semi-plausible reason to discredit me while deflecting from Spiffeh.

[copper223]

You should also strictly prefer no lynch and hopping on the ritual with Brian in order to figure out for sure which one between the two of us (if not both) is responsible for failing the ritual, instead you want to lynch me at likely mylo while floating around the idea that this is not mylo after all and in the meantime not having yet volunteered for the ritual, convenient that.

[copper223]

@Brian

Was it a specific type of monkey, or just a monkey?

It has a description but I am not giving it away in case the flavor is related to it's abilities, it doesn't have a name.

And yes making up scumreads based on flip speculation is why I wanted to lynch you d2.

[copper223]

Fair enough.

[copper223]

VOTE: AP

Confirm Brian

I'm here till 11 AM EST, I'll check back periodically to see if AP posts, if not I'll confirm Spiffeh before I leave.

[copper223]

Stating intent on AP, I am not so sure about who his partner is though.

[copper223]

@Spiffeh
AP is confirmed scum, if I'm the one left around you can make your case for why TTH is the last one.

[copper223]

A case that hopefully doesn't include role incompatibility when we have had 2 confirmed JK flips.

[copper223]

For one he is alive and he could have been hammered yesterday by scum if he was town.

Second refusing to join the ritual after claiming all your reads are based on scum being on it like he did yesterday is the equivalent of a scum claim (think of why you would absolutely insist to be on it if you are town with that mindset and why you don't want to be if you are scum and that's the case), he isn't even consistent in the way he applies this "fail = scum on ritual logic" as apparently today he is calling you scum, despite you being on the ritual yesterday when it succeeded.

[copper223]

Let's not forget Brian was voting for you as well until TTH's vote.

[copper223]

VOTE: AP

[copper223]

@TTH
What is your read on Spiffeh?

@Egg
Yes I am a Yachak Shaman and AP claimed to be a Queva Medicine Man, which according to his claim is this game's version of a vanilla shaman, we know btw there is nobody else that is claiming vanilla as we have all claimed to have acquired powers during the night phase or from the get go, figure that.

@All
Egg has a point about not giving scum a road-map for the NKs and I already know that AP is scum so I am not playing town mayor today, for the townies that still need to decide, what is your excuse? This level of interaction is a waste of day-time.

[copper223]

The sad thing is some of you have to be town...

Spiffeh's play is different from his latest as scum but that doesn't mean much when I can't find a single town motive for the way he is playing here, I have never seen a more uninspired game from TTH regardless of alignment (makes me regret voting for you as rising star last year), I thought Egg was scum for most of the game because he kept on hedging on his positions but have come to the conclusion that this is an unfortunate personality trait of his (mainly due to PoE or I would still find you very sketchy).

All that aside AP is so obviously scum it's not even funny, it reminds me of a quote (from Belisariuses signature?) about a guy hard claiming scum and another player doubting he actually did so and trying to convince the rest not to take it seriously.

[copper223]

@Egg
TTH's lynch today is happening only if she is town, good job losing the game if that's the case.

@Mod
I'll check back on the 28th before the deadline if the game is still ongoing, otherwise consider me

V/LA

during the eastern holidays.

[copper223]

gg's all and thanks for modding Fate.

[copper223]

In reply to the dead thread: I know right, I went through all the trouble (and luck) of setting Spiffeh up after the mass redirect of his investigative on scum and everyone just chalked it up to Fate dicking around... very frustrating. LLD/GI claiming Saulus also messed my plans up somewhat as some townies seemed to believe that we had caught 2 out of the 3 scum players and I needed the 1v1 mylo/lylo (contrary to what you thought AP that was the whole plan, to avoid TTH getting lynched, as she should have been).

Like LLD/GI I also disrupted every ritual I was on by default (so you had 2 players disabling that mechanic most of the time) and the time the ritual actually succeeded was supposed to fail due to lack of confirmation (surprised nobody called me out on saying I would confirm Spiffeh and then did no such thing).

Sorry Egg for not NKing you, I was going to until you said everything was ok again, and I did not think I could shield TTH with both Brian and Spiffeh alive (also Brian immediately unvoting when TTH voted AP, something I was not very happy about , scared the crap out of me). Nice piece of logic there at the end when you tried to push the TTH lynch over AP/Copper.

[copper223]

@AP
If you looked at your flavor I believe I was cc'ing you from the start of the game, the Q'evo are South-American and their mythology is strongly related to fire and the sun.

[copper223]

@Fate
The setup was brilliant btw, I might borrow some of it for my home games if I can replicate night QT's in a live setting, online it works like a charm other than those stupid stars confirming it's actually you that logged in the QT thread.

[copper223]

The stuff in the nightmare threads which makes for a very fun read if you know what is going on (minus Fate's copper is scum reveal to Toog., which was based on false copper false hammering camntsuki in the first place, how could you Fate?!?) was all Fate and a little bit TTH when we used the ability to post in the nightmare with the hound gambit, TTH being "redirected" in front of Egg like everyone else that night (as I used mass redirect) together with us killing UA was supposed to buy her some town cred, but the plan changed after UA survived and Spiffeh's guilty result.

Comon Camn and Katsuki, do you think I'd say "they call me the hammer..."? That's so cheesy... Fate's impersonation of Copper asking for data for everything including going to the bathroom (which is taking to the extreme the justification I used for my unwillingness to buss Yakko d1) was hilarious as well.

Camntsuki was killed N1 cause not only did they get Yakko, one of them did not fully buy my reasoning for stalling the game before voting Yakko and they didn't like Espe/TTH either, we nightmared them to try and counter whatever their ability was.

[copper223]

This is the N1 Upper World Thread:

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/b5hYMDJLxXu8P

[copper223]

My main concern here was to avoid the "asking for guidance" line from the immortal daoist, first cause I was unsure how he might have replied to my illusion lineage if I asked for guidance and second cause the actual townies present might have gotten some hint from him if they asked properly.

[copper223]

If TTH and Fate are ok with it, I don't mind.

[copper223]

M

[copper223]

I'll ask TTH.

[copper223]

Scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/NBMQgbjDM8my

[copper223]

Spiffeh actually did target UA, I mass redirected everybody's action during that night phase (minus the illusions as we were immune), and the rng.org number landed for Spiffeh's check on TTH (so UA came out as Illusion).

[copper223]

It's kinda BS for UA but the same can be said about any investigative hitting scum when you play mafia, I lost 80 bucks today with a full house against a straight flush that had no business being in that hand in the first place, now that is real BS .

[copper223]

Fate did not specify that we could not talk during the second twilight and left the thread open, whereas he explicitly sent us a PM about being forbidden from doing so during the first twilight. I also sent Fate a message asking him if we could post (without talking to TTH about it), you can argue that Nacho's penalty for actually posting was too harsh (up to Fate) but the two are in no way equal.

My whole strategy during that day was for the ritual to fail due to lack of confirmation, I also PM'd Fate about locking the thread (24 hours before he actually did), so yes it totally screwed with scum's strategy.

[copper223]

Lol no.

[copper223]

This was the D1 Twilight message:

You may not post in the thread unless I have told you otherwise during twilight. You have 24 hours from now to submit any role actions that take place during this phase.

Clarification: Journeying is a Twilight action. Please select which World you would like to journey to at this time.

This was the D2 Twilight message:

The night draws close as you decide your actions for this Twilight. Deadline is in 24 hours, possibly will be extended for Egg's V/LA notification

The difference between TTH's mistake and Nacho's violation is pretty clear to me unless Nacho didn't receive the D1 Twilight PM.

[copper223]

What I wrote about the ritual succeeding was done before I saw how town reacted (and I still think part of why Egg was confident enough in Spiffeh being town was in part due to the ritual succeeding with Spiffeh on it), you saying it didn't actually help town or that if town weren't *apathetic fucks* it wouldn't have happened are irrelevant facts to judge whether it was fair or not.

[copper223]

I cleared that with Fate via PM in private, from my pov. at the time it did compromise the game.

[copper223]

You pretty much strong-armed him into compensating your team.

This is nonsense as I had already told him it was ok and I wouldn't report it before he decided to "compensate".

[copper223]

@Brian
The 1v1 between AP and I would have been much easier to win if Egg would have had to choose between the two of us (and that would have been much more likely if Spiffeh hadn't cleared a ritual, one easy way to cast extra doubt on Spiffeh was his choice of yin and making us change all the confirmations, I was planning to say he did that hoping it would end like it did by lack of confirmation).

My biggest problem after the ritual succeeded was that the only logical lynch from Egg's PoV was TTH (you can figure this out just based on the claims alone), as he correctly deduced, so I had to either blindside him, which looked like it was failing, or somehow convince the guy I framed for 2 days (Spiffeh) that AP was scum, which happened cause Spiffeh misread the deadline and decided to take action, so no way was it in our favor, not to mention the abilities town got from the ritual and during the night phase thanks to it... crazy talk as far as I see it, if you want to complain about AP's play I can agree he did not help town win but that again has nothing to do with how the game was modded.

P-edit: Turns out TTH didn't even receive any twilight messages before Fate warned her not to post.

[copper223]

My interactions with my teammates have always been one of the best ways to figure out my alignment when I am scum, alternatively I'm sure TTH has a manual on how to read copper by now, although that may start with: copper is always scum , but nobody has yet managed to actually lynch me for it, give me an incentive to switch up my game and I'll try bussing, I still think it's retarded 90% of the time and one of the main reasons scum loses games.

@Brian
I have to agree with you about the mod implementation this game but RL comes first and Fate apologized to me already for being very busy while trying to mod this game and making some slip-ups, it happens.

[copper223]

Didn't I put a tiny bit of doubt in you d2/d4 that I might have actually been town?

I think both Yakko and TTH were pretty scummy so any attempt at defending or deflecting from them was going to be pretty scummy as well, but my philosophy is to try and always stick with my teammates.

I manufactured that "childish reaction" as Nacho called it to try and throw Nacho off when TTH replaced in and I thought if I started to go ham on you after you posted your copper/TTH scumread you might have had flashbacks of the game where we were scum-reading each other for ages as 2 townies (that's why I explicitly brought it up).

[copper223]

lulz.

[copper223]

TTH wrote in the scum qt that I better kill you as you were telling everyone I was scum in the middle world qt.

[copper223]

We also redirected Camntsuki I believe, so everything was used on them . I think TTH didn't know what the nightmare ability did at that point, only that it blocked the player from journeying, Fate told us they would be sent to a nightmare realm but not what would happen there, it became clear when we were organizing the fake redirect onto Egg what she could do with it.

I really liked the setup, I can see why some might be put out by it having high volatility, especially if like UA you are a victim of it and you can't do much to save yourself with your play alone, but if you put enough "swing" moments for both alignments and you start with a balanced setup the average game will turn out pretty balanced as well.

@Fate
What was needed for the ritual to succeed, no disruptors on it, just townies on it, just shaman on it, specific shamans for specific slots?

[copper223]

@Staeg
I've had the same happen to me when I tunneled on a townie that most of the others believed was town, usually defending scum misinterpreting it with VI hasn't caused the same amount of trouble but I tend to put them as maybe VI maybe scum and leaning VI if that's what I believe, I will not try to stop the lynch as they often are a liability and you can use the flip to go back and look at who was pushing unless for some reason they made it far in the game.

In general the best that has worked out for me in these instances is to continue to give my reads "to the empty void" and usually sooner or later someone will find something you said interesting again and write back, then you can start asking questions again; you reacted emotionally to the UA spat and I could tell you had very little interest left in playing the game so I tried to take advantage of it.