Mini 1782 Game Over

[Dierfire]

VC goes here, as well as a reminder that all inquiries related to Moderator actions that can't wait until after the game should be directed to me by PM.

Vote Count - Day 1 VC #11

Titus (0) -
Mhsmith (1) - Nos
Huntress (0) -
Froot (0) -
Pisskop (1) - Max
Max (4) - Froot, Maverick, Huntress, Lowell
Maverick (0) -
Shaddow (1) - Plain
Nos (0) -
Plain (1) - Shaddow
Lowell (0) -
Clumsy (1) - Rosh
Rosh (0) -
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (4) - Clumsy, Mhsmith, Pisskop, Titus

Deadline

Dawn will end on April 19, 2016 5:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2016-04-19 17:30:00).

Lynch Threshold

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod Notes

FA is force replaced. Pisskop takes her spot.
Jake is force-replaced. Maxous takes his spot.
RC and Jeanne request replacement. Titus replaces RC; Huntress replaces Jeanne.

A day was added to the deadline.
Maverick V/LA til April 11
Shaddowez V/LA til April 11
Lowell V/LA til April 11 (apparently)
Until the list mod gives a final ruling,

any and all discussion/disputes about actions taken should be discussed with Dierfire.

[Ircher]

Maxous replaces Jake From State Farm

[Maxous]

Itslike its a new (awesomer) game now!

good job I subbed in then, we needed to balance it out.

i see there's a lot of time until deadline so I'll read up over the weekend

[Maxous]

unvote

[Lowell]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: clumsy

[Clumsy]

Rude.

I really want to hear from all the replacements. Fresh views and discussions will help I think, and we have plenty of time.

@MOD: I will be out of town and V/LA from Friday to Sunday next weekend (April 15th-17th).

[mhsmith0]

my thought on jake is that his behavior, as obnoxious as it was, leans town (unfortunately). I consider it possible that he just went all out on offense when he was under fire, but I think it's more that he was town and DGAF how bad his behavior was. just push, push, push, push into a death tunnel. I've seen it to lesser degrees in other games. And it's a town tendency, again unfortunately.

As for the rest, I want to re-read everything NOT involving jake with a fresh set of eyes.

I'd also bet the farm that Jake/FA was not scum/scum (though scum/SK or the like is I guess possible). No way does it get that toxic between scum-buddies.

One thing which DID catch my eye was RC's 885. I'm not sure why "the way the mods dealt with the replacement" is necessarily AI. Does anyone else think it was?

[Clumsy]

I think it was about 828. I think the reasoning was that the mod wouldn't interfere if Jake were pressuring scum. I'm not entirely sure I agree with this, just because that really was just too much. It's a game. And I'm not really into this meta reading of the game. Breaks the spirit of the game in my opinion.

[Clumsy]

But yes, re-reading everything while skipping over Jake's stuff is my plan of action too.

[mhsmith0]

I think it was about 828. I think the reasoning was that the mod wouldn't interfere if Jake were pressuring scum. I'm not entirely sure I agree with this, just because that really was just too much. It's a game. And I'm not really into this meta reading of the game. Breaks the spirit of the game in my opinion.

I don't generally mind meta reading; it's part of the game under most circumstances.

But I do think the whole "the mod wouldn't have done this" if FA was town bit is odd. I mean, I feel comfortable saying that the mod would have hesitated if it was scum-scum, but I feel even more comfortable saying that no scum-scum team would have acted like this in the first place. I don't really see the logic behind assuming that mod action makes it t/t, t/s, or s/t. IMO it's basically null wrt their alignments. I could listen to a counter argument if someone wnats to make one, but that's where I am right now.

[Clumsy]

Hrm, let me rephrase. I dislike meta reading THE MOD in games like this. But I'm not in disagreement with you. If it was scum/scum, they wouldn't have replaced out I don't think. But I do think that it was NAI from the mod, because it was just behavior to far.

Basically, back to re-reading for me.

[Froot Loop]

I still think Jake/Max is a scum slot. I'll read through everything again tomorrow but when I was reading it, that's what I was thinking and it's what I'm feeling. The thing about the readlists is another problem for me - it felt like fake-town, theory play rather than anything helpful/investigative.

I think someone asked me about this post before:

VOTE: JFSF

Not dealing with someone with that attitude, regardless of alignment.

I basically agree with this.

I didn't phrase this very well because I don't agree with the policy-lynching side of it but I do agree with the difficulty of interacting with someone who acts the way Jake was acting. It's frustrating and I think it's anti-town so I don't know why it's done.

[Maxous]

vote: Clumsy

I would focus on either Clumsy or A Plain Farmer.

The way I interpreted the early game, there was a lot of aggressive town-arguing going on between {Radiant Cowbells-Frozen Angel-Roshar} and then later with {Jake-Frozen Angel.}
I would focus on the people skirting around the arguments, trying not to get involved as I would think the scum players would really want to avoid getting dragged in to arguments.

i feel Clumsy's been overly quiet in general anyway.

[Maxous]

I still think Jake/Max is a scum slot.

he was being obnoxious to the point where he nearly got policy-lynch'ed for his behaviour and would have if he wasn't replaced.

He wasn't being survivalistic at all.

[Maxous]

I am in a cage and the key is thrown away
Gently do the winds in the trees sway.

VOTE: Jake

Because he just is. I will always chase tunnelers as tunnelers will always be scum to me.

one last thing, this vote was crap and kinda scummy.
if there is a scum on jake's wagon here is where I would say it is.

[pisskop]

MAX!


YoY, this game is truely a great one. Ill read, but with 11 days on the clock and a somewhat busy schedule it may be next week.

[Huntress]

Unvote

Still catching up. I should be finished tomorrow.

[Ircher]

Vote Count - Day 1 VC #12

Titus (0) -
Mhsmith (1) - Nos
Huntress (0) -
Froot (0) -
Pisskop (0) -
Max (2) - Froot, Maverick
Maverick (0) -
Shaddow (1) - Plain
Nos (0) -
Plain (1) - Shaddow
Lowell (0) -
Clumsy (3) - Rosh, Lowell, Max
Rosh (0) -
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (5) - Clumsy, Mhsmith, Pisskop, Titus, Huntress

Deadline

Day 1 will end on April 19, 2016 5:30 PM EST or in (expired on 2016-04-19 17:30:00).

Lynch Threshold

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod Notes

Maverick V/LA til April 11
Shaddowez V/LA til April 11
Lowell V/LA til April 11 (apparently)
Clumsy will be V/LA April 15-17
Trying to outguess the mod is against the rules. Jk.

[a plain farmer]

The way I interpreted the early game, there was a lot of aggressive town-arguing going on between {Radiant Cowbells-Frozen Angel-Roshar} and then later with {Jake-Frozen Angel.}
I would focus on the people skirting around the arguments, trying not to get involved as I would think the scum players would really want to avoid getting dragged in to arguments.

I like this.

I am in a cage and the key is thrown away
Gently do the winds in the trees sway.

VOTE: Jake

Because he just is. I will always chase tunnelers as tunnelers will always be scum to me.

one last thing, this vote was crap and kinda scummy.

I also like this.

Except for a certain thing in 937 that I don't much like, I feel that Max has been saying wise things so far.

[Clumsy]

Ugh, yeah, I like it too unfortunately.

[Froot Loop]

Was Jake close to being lynched? That's not the impression I got when I was reading through, people were telling them to take a break and stuff.

Re: Max's post 937 - It's true that scum can hide away during a tunnelly TvT argument but I also think scum could dominate the thread like this. It's way more ballsy but looking at the way things turned out, and the likelihood that people will interpret it as TvT, it could be worth it. I think Jake's pregame play shows a player who isn't afraid of having attention, whether that indicates scum-Jake or town-Jake, I don't know, but I don't think scum will necessarily avoid the argument. I think mhsmith mentioned that Jake seemed to be getting panicky and I agree. I think the aggressive behaviour can be a response to being pushed, as well as backing off. Backing off appears to be more survivalist but they both can be.

You are more than capable of scumhunting and are not scumhunting.
So either you're scum or you're not making an effort and I'm fine lynching you either way.

Another suggestion for what equates to a policy lynch, which RC never responded to earlier.

I didn't read this as a policy lynch, I thought it was like "You're a good player but you're not playing well, that indicates that you're scum."

[Nosferatu]

that suggestion is actually pretty suspect looking back, seeing as the first game I played with RC I was literally put to L-1 for not scumhunting on D1

[Maxous]

Ugh, yeah, I like it too unfortunately.

Unfortunately?

Re: Max's post 937 - It's true that scum can hide away during a tunnelly TvT argument but I also think scum could dominate the thread like this.

i'm not saying the arguments *have* to be all town v town.
In my opinion, these ones were though.

[Maverick1102]

Just checking in, letting you know that I'm here and catching up now. Shit would appear to have hit the fan with like a thousand replacements so I can't wait to find that bit.

[Clumsy]

Ugh, yeah, I like it too unfortunately.

Unfortunately?

Yes, unfortunately to the first part because it's against me. I like it and think it's town even though it's against me.