Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[Imperium]

@Imperium which posts are from who, you guys haven't been signing and I haven't played with either of you enough to know your posting behaviours.

We don't sign our posts, but what would knowing whose posts are whose do for your ability to read us?

[Severa]

I'm incredibly skeptical of SnarkySnowman putting me as sole confirmed scum with current levels of content from my slot.

Feels like an attempt to generate a counterwagon. CoM flips scum that's my first priority.

[Imperium]

Caught up, vote staying.

also, imperium said they felt snubbed by me and I just realised it's tammy! hi tammy! wanna come soul read me?

Hi! I will and hopefully have that ability .

Hopefully I'll be able to really get engaged in the game over the next couple days.

[Imperium]

I'm incredibly skeptical of SnarkySnowman putting me as sole confirmed scum with current levels of content from my slot.

Feels like an attempt to generate a counterwagon. CoM flips scum that's my first priority.

I'm incredibly skeptical of the fact that he read the game in less than a half an hour enough to provide a reads list.

[Severa]

Isn't that right!

Ha!?

[Imperium]

1. What Acryon said was that he was difficult to lynch. He also said that his early posting and low activity level may cause someone who didn't know him to perceive him as low hanging fruit. MagnaOfIllusion took issue with this and attacked Acryon for this "self-contradiction." I found that a bit ridiculous since "

I'm not low-hanging fruit but based on my activity so far, you may perceive me as low-hanging fruit and therefore attacked me

" seemed perfectly reasonable and has no self-contradiction. It seemed me like MagnaOfIllusion was just throwing whatever arguments he could at Acryon because Acryon wasn't particularly townread or in a strong position at that point. When pressed on it, Magna clarified that it was the fact that Acryon was using charged language like "low hanging fruit" in a situation that didn't warrant it that he found suspicious. I found that explanation somewhat more reasonable than "self-contradiction."

2. I did find Magna's attack on me scummy. I'm not sure how what another player did in another game has any relevance. I find it just as likely for town to suspect their attacker as mafia.

3. What are you talking about regarding "Nosferatu's 8:40 thing?" If it is the fact that one of his classes start at 8:40 and he had to leave specifically at that time, it certainly wasn't obvious to me considering I don't know him or his schedule. It seemed like he posted just after being called out by MagnaOfIllusion, then denied that he was, then stated that he didn't read anything after 8:40 which conveniently seemed like a time just before he was called out. I needed him to explain how that happened. How was it obvious to you?

4. I think Lowell is town now but I found his early push on KTthecreeper and responses pretty bad. I think it's unreasonable for Lowell to expect KTthecreeper to respond to all RVS votes rather than just ones on himself.

1. Yeah, I understood all sides of the discussion between acryon and magna. I do think that the first argument about the self-contradiction is exactly how magna would read it though.

2. How people treat people in games goes to mindset and it is absolutely useful and relevant to note. People create scumtells and how scum or town are more likely to react

based on how scum and town have reacted in previous games

. I'm pretty sure you know that.

3. Yeah, I thought that was pretty obvious. I don't know Nosferatu's schedule either, but when she said it couldn't have been after 8:40 or whatever she said, I immediately thought oh that was the time she went to work, school, whatever, and thought it was really obvious. Part of my point there was the you getting after Magna for something you thought was obvious felt off when there was a really obvious thing to me that you were pushing and didn't understand immediately. In part this just goes to show that what is obvious for one person is not at all obvious to another.

4. I thought Lowell's early thing with KT was just an early game push meant to do something/look like he was doing something or get a reaction/read out of KT. I didn't for one second think he was actually pushing a case he strongly believed in in the first two pages of the game that he thought would gain much traction. I thought his fake day kill thing on you was him expressing frustration that you had walked through his attempt to get a read.

[Imperium]

I'm still fine with a Church lynch. I get jaded and whatever. But ABR not actually having a scum read or trying to get a scum read lynched is just so far from any time I've seen him as town it's not funny. This is how I've seen him as scum multiple times though.

Oh, if they do claim something, please don't counterclaim them. If they actually had a role they'd have claimed by now. They wouldn't say that we can win the game without them, and they definitely wouldn't let themselves hover until deadline as the lynch du jour.

[Imperium]

I need to get really caught up in the game and flesh out some other reads. I'd eat a hat or a shoe or something if Magna was scum cuz this just isn't his scum game. So, that's one I feel pretty good about. I remember also liking Ollie, Acryon, Nosferatu and was coming around on Ocean Wind. I'm hoping to be caught up with life by the end of the weekend, so I should be able to be around more after that, though Nacho's got this and we haven't had any big disagreements on reads as of yet, so hopefully that's promising

[Nosferatu]

@Imperium which posts are from who, you guys haven't been signing and I haven't played with either of you enough to know your posting behaviours.

We don't sign our posts, but what would knowing whose posts are whose do for your ability to read us?

It's hard reading read progression of hydras when I don't know who is who.

[Nosferatu]

I'm incredibly skeptical of SnarkySnowman putting me as sole confirmed scum with current levels of content from my slot.

Feels like an attempt to generate a counterwagon. CoM flips scum that's my first priority.

I'm incredibly skeptical of the fact that he read the game in less than a half an hour enough to provide a reads list.

I can read at like 8000wpm, it's a cinch to read a <600 post thread in less than 30 mins, but it looks like it's more of a rangerlist than an read list, so I'm more skeptical about the actual depth of the reads.

[OceanWind]

Of the new replacements since I last checked, I'm getting townvibes from snarky and scumvibes from Xis.

Mind elaborating here. I get the opposite feeling on both. Xisiqomelir's reads and reasons are very original which I like. Snowman's post leaves a lot more to be desired. For someone who apparently read twenty-odd pages, he seems content to drop a list of reads, said he'd get back on ChurchOfMercy and hasn't posted since.

---

1. Yeah, I understood all sides of the discussion between acryon and magna. I do think that the first argument about the self-contradiction is exactly how magna would read it though.

2. How people treat people in games goes to mindset and it is absolutely useful and relevant to note. People create scumtells and how scum or town are more likely to react based on how scum and town have reacted in previous games. I'm pretty sure you know that.

3. Yeah, I thought that was pretty obvious. I don't know Nosferatu's schedule either, but when she said it couldn't have been after 8:40 or whatever she said, I immediately thought oh that was the time she went to work, school, whatever, and thought it was really obvious. Part of my point there was the you getting after Magna for something you thought was obvious felt off when there was a really obvious thing to me that you were pushing and didn't understand immediately. In part this just goes to show that what is obvious for one person is not at all obvious to another.

4. I thought Lowell's early thing with KT was just an early game push meant to do something/look like he was doing something or get a reaction/read out of KT. I didn't for one second think he was actually pushing a case he strongly believed in in the first two pages of the game that he thought would gain much traction. I thought his fake day kill thing on you was him expressing frustration that you had walked through his attempt to get a read.

1. That's okay if you think that. I'm not sure why you expect me to have an insight into how MagnaOfIllusion would read self-contradictions. Also, there was no self-contradiction. Acryon basically said "I'm not low hanging fruit but I could be perceived as such."

2. I'm aware and I've said it in the past too. The difference here is that you are bringing up a single instance of a behavior rather than a pattern.

3. The difference between my push on Nosferatu and MagnaOfIllusion's push on Acryon was that I didn't make the connection between 8:40 before Nosferatu explained it but after he did, I understood what he was saying. In the other argument, Acryon explained to MagnaOfIllusion a couple of times exactly what he meant pretty clearly.

4. Town push their early reads in RVS to progress the game. Mafia also push their "reads" in RVS to pretend like they are town progressing the game. Lowell's early posts felt like the latter because his reasons for suspecting KTthecreeper were objectively bad. It makes "surface-level" sense to accuse KTthecreeper of being "mafia that only cares about votes on him" while ignoring that any human being is drawn to mentions of their own name. If he had just said "KTthecreeper's reactions to pressure seemed fake," I wouldn't have suspected him.

But it wasn't the case by itself that made me suspect him. It was the fact that three other people voted KTthecreeper after Lowell did. There's plenty of scum motivation to post a made-up case on an awkward townie so that he hopefully digs himself into a deeper hole - it's the opportunity provided that's important. When town pressures someone (town or mafia), I've seen mafia jump in with shitty reasoning. I believed that this was one of those cases.

There's also the fact that Lowell could have seen a partner in trouble and hastily threw together a case because other people wagoned him. When mafia see a newbie partner wagoned, the temptation to push that partner hard is very high because if a buddy is getting lynched anyways, you want credit for it. Considering I also suspected KTthecreeper, this was a distinct possibility.

I don't understand why anyone would use cases they don't believe in to "get the game going." I don't RVS vote ever. My first post is usually a vote for the person that I find scummiest based on posts so far, and then I change it whenever someone new does something even scummier and so on. Low information doesn't mean you "clown around" and say things you don't actually believe.

[ChurchOfMercy]

This is a scumpost:

You guys, I'm known for being useless Day1, NAI. I'm more of a Day3 player.

No, it's NAI meta.

Unless I get a role like Night 0 All-Seeing God, my Day1 will suck.

I often don't even vote, other than RVS-ing a stranger.

[ChurchOfMercy]

I'm sort of back. I'll try to catch up.

Of the new replacements since I last checked, I'm getting townvibes from snarky and scumvibes from Xis. Still believe CoM is the best lynch. This is going to sound ironic coming from me, but it really feels like they've phoned it in, and are trying to make up for lack of content (which I would normally expect from this slot) with sheer volume. Not buying.

Now

this

^ is scummy.

[ChurchOfMercy]

Nosferatu - I said that my Day1 play is shit, I'm better on Day3. My Day1 play is light years beyond what Nos has been doing all game. Scum.

fam you haven't done shit

And you've done less.

[ChurchOfMercy]

vote count 1.11

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
day 1 has begun, it will end in (expired on 2016-04-16 19:01:46)

As stated, I'll shift my vote since DL is getting closer.

UNVOTE: SnarkySnowman
VOTE: ChurchofMercy

That's L-1

^^^ this is a scummy post

Agreed.

[ChurchOfMercy]

Here's a readlist.

Town {MagnaofIllusion, Oceanwind, Ollie}
Townlean {Bellephant, Jim, acryon, Killthestory}
Scumlean {Lowell, Imperium, Nosferatu, ChurchofMercy}
Scum {Severa}

ChurchofMercy is interesting, because I see a lot of associatives with them (and a lot of info to be gained from that lynch), but I don't necessarily think they're scum, so I'd like to consider. Let me read that one a little more thoroughly.

Severa, on the other hand, has done almost nothing and I feel like that's a particularly worthy lynch, if we run up against it. Also, UNVOTE:

So, you decide that Severa is your Number 1 scumread.

[ChurchOfMercy]

So why not vote for her, Snowman?

[ChurchOfMercy]

I'm incredibly skeptical of SnarkySnowman putting me as sole confirmed scum with current levels of content from my slot.

Feels like an attempt to generate a counterwagon. CoM flips scum that's my first priority.

It's gonna look pretty bad for you when we flip Town.

[ChurchOfMercy]

Oh, if they do claim something, please don't counterclaim them. If they actually had a role they'd have claimed by now. They wouldn't say that we can win the game without them, and they definitely wouldn't let themselves hover until deadline as the lynch du jour.

I probably wouldn't have claimed by now, no matter what my role is.

That this hydra's Town is all anyone needs to know.

[OceanWind]

Current scumreads for me are ChurchOfMercy, SnarkySnowman, Jim, and Bellaphant roughly in that order.

I find the make-some-posts-and-disappear routine for SnarkySnowman and Jim mafia-indicative as I tend to find most players tend to be less motivated to keep up with the flow of the game when they draw a mafia role. Jim also had several logical inconsistencies in his posts that he hasn't come back to explain. SnarkySnowman's single reads-list and no other content doesn't make sense from someone who just entered the game as that's when you know you have time to spare or you wouldn't have replaced in.

Severa still needs to post more content but I'm liking the more aggressive posting and I completely agree that SnarkySnowman putting him down as a sole scumread was odd. Xisiqomelir is the same tier.

Nosferatu is most likely town. His scumreads (Ollie, Lowell, Imperium) don't match with the general concensus at all which I find townish even though those three are fairly strong townreads for me. Reads on KillTheStory, MagnaOfIllusion, Ollie, Imperium, and Lowell haven't changed but I really would appreciate Lowell catching up and posting actual content as that's the read I'm second-guessing the most.

[Severa]

I'm sure it will, sweetie.

[Severa]

For the record, 'day 3 player' is another way of saying 'I can't scumhunt without associatives!'

[Nosferatu]

Nosferatu - I said that my Day1 play is shit, I'm better on Day3. My Day1 play is light years beyond what Nos has been doing all game. Scum.

fam you haven't done shit

And you've done less.

pls elaborate on this. I am extremely curious.

[acryon]

I'm incredibly skeptical of SnarkySnowman putting me as sole confirmed scum with current levels of content from my slot.

Feels like an attempt to generate a counterwagon. CoM flips scum that's my first priority.

There is plenty to work with, and although I'm still unsure on you, I think someone getting a scumread on you based on what's there isn't ridiculous.

I'm incredibly skeptical of SnarkySnowman putting me as sole confirmed scum with current levels of content from my slot.

Feels like an attempt to generate a counterwagon. CoM flips scum that's my first priority.

I'm incredibly skeptical of the fact that he read the game in less than a half an hour enough to provide a reads list.

Obviously agree here if this is what happened.

I'm still fine with a Church lynch. I get jaded and whatever. But ABR not actually having a scum read or trying to get a scum read lynched is just so far from any time I've seen him as town it's not funny. This is how I've seen him as scum multiple times though.

Oh, if they do claim something, please don't counterclaim them. If they actually had a role they'd have claimed by now. They wouldn't say that we can win the game without them, and they definitely wouldn't let themselves hover until deadline as the lynch du jour.

This this this.

Consider this an intent to hammer.

[Xisiqomelir]

@MOI

:

Your approach I like but you get demerits for the use of the word “querulous”. Bad Xisi.

lulz

@Lowell

:

^^^ this is a scummy post

You should elaborate further. Here is scum meta for you to aid your research:
-CAH Mafia
-The Wire Mafia
-Pikmin Mafia

@Imperium (Tammy)

:

Have we played together?

Only once, and it wasn't a regular game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4521713

However, as a I've read quite a bit of your stuff. You aren't in the MoI/GreyICE "belligerent hostile scum" category I mentioned earlier, you have a more typical stealthy inconspicuous scum game in my view. However, here you've been very straightforward and unafraid of attention when pushing CoM.