Open 636 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem - Game Over

[heuristically_alone]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

As long as I can forgive myself, I am happy

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@blue yoshi, you are the prettiest yoshi I have ever seen

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It's actually the eye of a gorilla.

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Why didn't SnarkySnowman make a vote? Suspicious suspicious.....

[heuristically_alone]

this is a post

VOTE: Snarky

This is a vote.

Obviously you are onto something genius here. We could make this the shortest d1 ever!

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Good thing mod already did. (*You are town, right?*)

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Are there ever multiple players with venge kills or generally just one?

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Also, could be an interesting mafia plan, fake having a venge kill and hoping that the town in that case will not vote you out and read you as town

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ok, just realized that in this setup all townies have venge kill on d1. I was thinking that I might be the only one. On that note, even more it makes sense for Severa to be fake claiming in hopes that we really don't lynch em.

UNVOTE

VOTE: Severa

[heuristically_alone]

Either town or mafia, Severa is a dangerous player to have in the game.

Whether it be the attitude of doesn't want to participate or just arrogant of scum hunting abilities

[heuristically_alone]

The question is, if we do decide to lynch Severa, do we want to hold off in case she really is town to give a chance at better reading a scum for the venge kill, or do we kill Severa quickly before the mafia has a chance to read into an obv town for an easy NK?

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Scum motivation: Has anyone ever lynched somebody d1 for being silent pretty much the whole time? At least in the games I've played, the only ones on the wagon are those really participating

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Whether they're town or scum, actively refusing to participate like that is kinda annoying.

Which is why my vote is still on Severa

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Wow let's have everyone follow this tactic! Guess I don't have to check this thread for the next month.....

(then mod replaces everybody haha)

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But we promised each other at the beginning we were town

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Boooooo

Do you work in a haunted house?

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I already asked him that.

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Postie, who did TheDominator vote as judge on both times?

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The only one that has really explained their vote for me is acryon. Others just followed. @Bellaphant, why the vote for me?

And the only reason for acryon's vote for me was because he didn't like the fact that I misunderstood what the open setup was.

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Ok, you just changed your vote @Bellaphant, but still curious about the vote for me

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@POSTIE

Postie, who did TheDominator vote as judge on both times?

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No I do not

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TheDenominator is who you replaced

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oh shoot, I apologize Postie, I crossed over two different games. My bad! ignore what I have been saying

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In that case, Severa will probably get picked as second most scummy, and Severa gets what they want.

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It is a great idea though

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Well, might as well start planning for my venge kill

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I mean there was a reason but I'll explain it at such point as I elect to begin scumhunting directly.

So, when you said you weren't going to say anything, what you meant was "I'm going to participate plenty but tell everyone I'm not saying anything to ???"

She's got to post at least once a day or risk getting replaced.

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I still feel like Severa is my best candidate for mafia. The less information mafia give, the harder it is for town, and Severa has come up with the perfect excuse for not giving information.

My top town reads are not_mafia and ari. There isn't any specific posts at this point backing the claim, just getting a town vibe. Ari seems in honest pursuit and not_mafia seems to be acting as I normally see in his town games. I do hate using meta for reads though... so that could change

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I still feel like Severa is my best candidate for mafia. The less information mafia give, the harder it is for town, and Severa has come up with the perfect excuse for not giving information.

That's true but it also seems like a pretty shallow interpretation of Severa's play.
Severa has a history of getting N1'd on their main, if that changes anything for you.

Well I have a history of being lyched on d1. In fact I'm hoping this will be the first game that doesn't happen.

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I'd doubt they'd keep their vote on themselves at L-2 if they were maf, even if they had a lot of faith in their wifom.

This is where you're wrong.

Agreed. A good mafia would take that decision to the grave or to their salvation.

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So I'd like to get more into this game, can someone please ask me something?

Are you scum?

Didn't we already go over this in the PT?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Duppin

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@H_A
Is your entire town read on NM based on meta? And who do you see as scum right now?

Not entirely meta, since I've only really seen NM play one way, but as far as I know he has never been scum in any of my games.

Right now I've decided on Duppin and Postie as my biggest scum reads. When I saw duppin ask that someone ask him something, I wanted to ask the same question. Town are generally more likely to give a simple no answer while scum tend to deflect the question in some way or not answer. I've just been having bad feelings about Postie, similar to those Postie has for me, but not in an omgus sense.

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VOTE: Pista
Harping on this is distracting and useless.
Nice busiwork though.

It's the most interesting thing going on and the only major event so far.

it seems this is really based on the fact that I only had 3 posts about Severa, as opposed to 34.

I like this answer. I don't see any reason why Pista is being read as mafia. Though to clarify, I haven't seen anything that makes me feel town either.

[heuristically_alone]

In post 262, heuristically_alone wrote:
Right now I've decided on Duppin and Postie as my biggest scum reads. When I saw duppin ask that someone ask him something, I wanted to ask the same question. Town are generally more likely to give a simple no answer while scum tend to deflect the question in some way or not answer. I've just been having bad feelings about Postie, similar to those Postie has for me, but not in an omgus sense.

Can you clarify this for me? Not sure how this equates to Duppin-scum.

So I'd like to get more into this game, can someone please ask me something?

Are you scum?

Didn't we already go over this in the PT?

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Ahh ok I just read your 262 wrong. When you said "I wanted to ask the same question", I thought it was referring to duppin's question, but really it was referring to Postie's question back to his question.

Now who is more likely to ask duppin's question: town or scum?

Your right, upon rereading I wasn't too clear.

That's a question I've asked myself. I've seen both town and scum ask it, so it would depend on the intent. Town could ask it just to move the game along, or just to ask something, and can use it as some form of scum hunting. Scum ass it to try to pick out who they should read as scum. Personally, I've got some negative vibes from Postie, but nothing concrete.

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Scum ask it to try to pick out who they should read as scum.

Can you go into more detail on this? I don't really understand.

It's kind of tough for a mafia to try to do honest reads already knowing who is town and scum beforehand. By posing this question to a town, depending how town answers, the scum can claim the answer as scummy. A scum could ask scum this question too, and if they have daytalk, even tell the other how to answer it to ensure he reads him as town for it.

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I know I'm town and I don't know Severa is town. Therefore, better Severa than me.

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It seems to me, Postie, that you are trying to get me to say something scummy so that you have good excuses to vote me and convince others to vote me, if you were scum. I'm actually leaning on you as scum more at this point than Severa.

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Yeah, that. I think my issue with your plan is the second scummiest player wont be in the 'loop' so their reads might be kinda shit?

That's why we tell them who to venge. I guess we have to trust they'll actually do it though.

Wheras if a bunch of us agreed on a 'probably town with good scum-reads' player, we might be safer?

But then... why not just lynch the person that that person wants to venge?

Though I must say I do like this plan you have. I feel like Severa will end up being the second scummiest in the end, so either way Severa gets what they wanted.

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It seems to me, Postie, that you are trying to get me to say something scummy so that you have good excuses to vote me and convince others to vote me, if you were scum.

I'm scumreading you so I'm trying to get you to say stuff that will help me sort you.

Great so we are on the same page

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I'm still scum reading Severa because I think she might be mafia saying lynch her so she can use venge kill, hoping that becasue of that we don't kill her. WIFOM. It's not a very confident read, but still one of the best I got. That's why I say if we follow your plan I could see her being the second scummiest we decide to lynch.

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And I feel like you keep asking me the same questions over and over again. What's up with that? Hoping I'll slip?

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Don't worry Aris, he's scum

To clarify, Snarky is scum?

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^ ^ ^
or Blue Yoshi?

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Right now I've decided on Duppin and Postie as my biggest scum reads. When I saw duppin ask that someone ask him something, I wanted to ask the same question. Town are generally more likely to give a simple no answer while scum tend to deflect the question in some way or not answer. I've just been having bad feelings about Postie, similar to those Postie has for me, but not in an omgus sense.

Um... what? Sorry but this makes no sense at all. Why do you think town are more likely to give a simple no answer and what exactly do you base this on? Because I don't agree with you at all. This is actually not me trying to defend myself, but I'd really like to know why you believe this to be the case.

Of course a scum like you would doubt my logic. To me logically and psychologically speaking it just makes sense. Obviously never a 100% gaurantee thing, but then again, nothing ever in this game.

[heuristically_alone]

Town

Bellaphant
acryon
Aristophanes
heuristically_alone
Severa
Flubbernugget
duppin
SnarkySnowman
pistachi0n
Blue Yoshi
Postie
Not_Mafia

Scum

I cannot tell a lie

This just might be my favorite reads list so far very. Haha

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Acron, can I get a readslist from you too? I could lynch way too many people...

To be honest I'm not one for readslists, but I'll humor you. This can be a ranking from most likely town to most likely scum.

Town

acryon
Bellaphant
Flubbernugget
Severa
Aristophanes
SnarkySnowman
pistachi0n
heuristically_alone
Blue Yoshi
Postie
Not_Mafia
duppin

Scum

Suppose I should also move my vote.

VOTE: duppin

Actually move Postie below you on my list.

Glad I'm not the only one thinking duppin and postie are the most scummy.

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Of course a scum like you would doubt my logic.

H_A, why is everyone who questions you scum?

Have i accused everyone that has ever questioned me? I haven't noticed. Maybe scum just find me as a good questioning target this game.

[heuristically_alone]

Town

Bellaphant
acryon
Aristophanes
heuristically_alone
Severa
Flubbernugget
duppin
SnarkySnowman
pistachi0n
Blue Yoshi
Postie
Not_Mafia

Scum

So does this mean Bella is your top scumread or?

Pretend you are doing a wordsearch. Look for the words town and scum (hint: they are bolded)

[heuristically_alone]

I get you don't like my posting style, but I play the game like I see it, which is fluid and from an imperfect perspective.

Summary:
-Most things that people would call scummy, especially D1, could very well come from newb/unhelpful town.
-It's our job to use our gut and the tone of posts to discern intent, which will help us differentiate between the scum or one of the town cases above.
-I did this, which leads me to believe duppin is scum.
-Since this is a gut-read in large part (as most reads are D1), I don't expect you to 100% agree with me, but I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.

That being said, I think you and I are largely done talking about this and I'd like you to let duppin address what I've had to say, because I think at the very least we can all agree we'd like more actual content from him (as well as other players).

Even this, I'm not really following and can't understand. You gave reasons for scumreading duppin and tried to answer my questions about them and now you're saying you've been doing things by gut and he's gut scummy even though you said some of the reasons you gave didn't ping you as town or scum (but he's still scum for them) and...???
Nothing you're saying is making any sense to me.

What doesn't make sense? All the time (espceially d1) I see players using gut reads and then another player asks why or wants evidence, so then the player with that gut read feels obligated to go out and find some evidence to satisfy.

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I feel like I still don't have much to say. Is there anything anyone wants to know from me?

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You guys should vote for not mafia

He can't make a real push

Is this the only reason you still have your RVS vote on NM? I don't even know quite what you mean by real push. Real push for what? Push for voting out scum? Doesn't make them scum. And in a couple posts you said he was throwing shade? NM has shown no tell about his alignment and in that case is more likely town, so I think it is a terrible D1 lynch. If he flips town, we get little to no intel out of it. Obviously we want to vote someone out we think is scum, but we also want to go with, who seems scummy enough to vote out, yet would reveal the most information after the flip no matter the alignment?

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I'm a very melodramatic guy

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A heur/N_M scum 2/3 seems likely, I feel a problem with heur trying too hard to deflect scum reads and suspicion off of N_M.
Not to mention my general distaste for the two of them in this game so far, which kinda just adds more.

301-302 (heur) also feels alarmingly defensive, and 369 is just as defensive in favor of N_M. 211 also makes it look like that heur is committed to read N_M as town.

I'm fine with an N_M lunch today. Contrary to heur's belief, a scumflip there will provide the most knowledge as to the scumteam, and even a townflip + vengekill would provide a ton of info.

Still think our priorities should be finding scum, not just information. We don't HAVE to lynch town d1 just to get a vengekill.

sorry for no post links, mobile is shite to manage effectively

Well obviously a scumflip would give us the most knowledge. What I was trying to say is that we should lynch someone such that if they flip town (hopefully not) we can still get ample info from that. I don't mean to be defending n_m so much. I just don't want people reading behavior that for him I don't think is scummy, but just what he always seems to do in games.

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301-302 (heur) also feels alarmingly defensive

Because Postie kept asking me the same questions, just rephrasing them and me calling Postie out on it?

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Something about BlueYoshi's posts just don't feel right to me. Not saying at this point he is scum, but my gut tells me a lot.

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BTW, I have a townread on Blue Yoshi so I'm not going to get behind a lynch on him today. I got pretty strong townvibes from his questions near the start of the game.

I generally don't like to read too much into questions asked by players at the beginning of game. It is way too easy for scum to shine off town vibes.

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What is it you don't like?

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BTW, I have a townread on Blue Yoshi so I'm not going to get behind a lynch on him today. I got pretty strong townvibes from his questions near the start of the game.

I generally don't like to read too much into questions asked by players at the beginning of game. It is way too easy for scum to shine off town vibes.

Why do you think that?

Posts 31, 45, and 54 feel very much like frustrated town to me.
It's not just the questions in those posts though, but the general tone of everything.

Agreed, could be frustrated town. In the few games I have played, it seems mislynches always happen because of an opinion on a player from the first couple pages. I've been guilty of that mistake before. So now, while I still take in info, I hope to get more revealing read from further pages in the game.

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What is it you don't like?

It reads like a Token Opinion to prove to the town you said a thing.

You asked "I don't like these in the same post" and I didn't understand what you meant. Were their two things in my post that didn't make sense together?

What is a Token Opinion?

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Postie will never blow the second dayvig while I'm alive.

VOTE: Postie

She's scum.

She speaks! (Like the post

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Please can you explain your read on me? I don't really know what I'm supposed to do in this situation.

Dayvig me and hope my read goes away.

Ok Severa just might be town

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No

Why would I fake a scumread of this calibre in a game where I can be daykilled right in the middle if I thought you were town?

Come now.

^ I don't get what you mean

here

.

Why would I claim a massive scumread on you if scum could daykill me and likely get you lynched off of it if I wasn't 100% sure you were scum?

Oh, true, I guess. Idk.

Did postie just claim scum?

[heuristically_alone]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Postie

L-2

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Severa's weird mistake on spreadsheets things worries me a little, could be a mafia well planned plot all along to appear towny. Well played if true. I still feel Severa is most likely town though.

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In post 519, duppin wrote:
Could you talk about the other players on your train?

You mean the ones on my wagon? Pretty sure at least one of them is scum. It's probably acryon and/or Not_Mafia, but I can see heuristic as scum again after that jump onto me. I know heuristic was suspicious of me before but his reasoning is even more opaque than Severa's here and I'm getting a really bad feeling from the way it happened. It's hard to explain but I'm just finding it really hard to see a natural thought process behind what he's doing.

I agree my thought process may not seem to make sense to most and that's probably way I've gotten lynched in pretty much every game I've been in on D1, but I can't just copy what others say. I don't sheep. Everybody thinks differently than others and this is the way I think. It's lame to think someone is mafia just by judging the way they do logic (though it is still part of the game)

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In post 519, duppin wrote:
Could you talk about the other players on your train?

You mean the ones on my wagon? Pretty sure at least one of them is scum. It's probably acryon and/or Not_Mafia, but I can see heuristic as scum again after that jump onto me. I know heuristic was suspicious of me before but his reasoning is even more opaque than Severa's here and I'm getting a really bad feeling from the way it happened. It's hard to explain but I'm just finding it really hard to see a natural thought process behind what he's doing.

I agree my thought process may not seem to make sense to most and that's probably way I've gotten lynched in pretty much every game I've been in on D1, but I can't just copy what others say. I don't sheep. Everybody thinks differently than others and this is the way I think. It's lame to think someone is mafia just by judging the way they do logic (though it is still part of the game)

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@Not_Mafia
I think you win my award for hardest player to read. But I say you're town, so if I'm right, then I guess you have to give your award back.

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If we do not lynch Postie this day, then mafia would have succeeded in the true use of the day kill, diverting the attention. D2 will be another chance to analyze the day kill. Would not be surprised if Blue Yoshi were mafia, but that kill actually kind of makes me doubt it. It would be a mafia plan to try to divert attention from Postie to BlueYoshi, if Blue were in fact mafia, then hopefully that would stop town from looking at Postie.

VOTE: Postie

[heuristically_alone]

Why are you scumreading me again, heuristic?

Most people are scumreading you. You're going to die today.

[heuristically_alone]

I find HA's content suspicious, but seeing as he seems to be a fairly new player that most likely plays a role. I still find him suspicious though.
I'm a bit meh on Postie. Didn't like her entrance or her defense to the push on her. As for pistachi0n she hasn't really done much this game so far, but from the games I've played with her before that's not alignment indicative and I'd expect her to (hopefully) become more active.

What do you mean by "most likely plays a role"? Aren't we all playing a role?

If you don't vote Postie today, you will be my top lynch for tomorrow (provided Postie flips town)


Though there were talks early on in voting the second scummiest player. Do people still have an opinion on that?

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It's concerning to me that Postie hasn't made a vote yet. Curious to find what people think, would that be more likely a scum move or a town move?

[heuristically_alone]

I do remember N_M being more helpful/contributing more the last game I played with him, but that was before I took a break from MS, so I could be remembering incorrectly.

N_M playing in this game has seemed pretty typical to me.

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I won't do anything tonight. The soonest I would hammer would be 12+ hours in case Postie wants to make a final claim or anyone else has anything better to say.

[heuristically_alone]

How fortuitous!

Recently read something on tells on mafia scum wiki that players that make posts like this right after a lynching are likely scum

VOTE: Aristophanes

[heuristically_alone]

(*You are town, right?*)

Yessir!
How exciting!!

I am so disappointed in you

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I am thinking I will either end my vote on either Aristo or Blue Yoshi today

[heuristically_alone]

I guess I've already shared my reads on N_M quite adamantly.

SnarkySnowman seems the most town in this game. He's been generally helpful in most points of the game and has always seemed like he's been involved, even if he does dumbs sometimes.

I like the style and helpfulness of Acryon's posts and how well they've been playing the game, but once their replacement comes in I'll probably have to reevaluate that.

H_A's posts aren't that great in general, especially the way he hopped on to the Postie wagon, so they still seem rather scummy in light of the Severa scumminess.

I'll share more in a bit

Sounds like last ditch attempt to appear town, and throwing scum read at me. I was definitely not sheeping.

UNVOTE:

intent to hammer yoshi, but I don't know the vote count.

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Been feeling less and less sure about Blue Yoshi at a gut level but his reads range from bad to counterfactual, he's pushing the 2 people who drove the scum lynch for "inability to progress the game"

You do realize that by starting to distance yourself, if Yoshi flips town, that marks you as a high scum target, right?

I am ready to hammer as long as no one else has qualms about it

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Severa, are you suggesting we go for one of the townier player?

If Severa ends up being scum, then scum probably win.

[heuristically_alone]

Severa, are you suggesting we go for one of the townier player?

If Severa ends up being scum, then scum probably win.

We could lynch sevra

If we get two myslynches in a row, then that might be a good time to lynch severa

[heuristically_alone]

Severa, are you suggesting we go for one of the townier player?

If Severa ends up being scum, then scum probably win.

We could lynch sevra

If we get two myslynches in a row, then that might be a good time to lynch severa

Wtf is this?

Chaining lynches?

VOTE: H_A

What's a training lynch and why is it bad?

[heuristically_alone]

Severa, are you suggesting we go for one of the townier player?

If Severa ends up being scum, then scum probably win.

We could lynch sevra

If we get two myslynches in a row, then that might be a good time to lynch severa

Wtf is this?

Chaining lynches?

VOTE: H_A

I see this from town as often as I see it from scum

'

Why did you state it like so instead of "I see this from scum as often as I see it from town?"

Also why was Bellaphant hard reading town on Titus's slot but Severa scum reading?

[heuristically_alone]

You're hilariously awkward when you try to interact with me when you're

scum

breathing

Fixed it for you. :-p

Are you claiming that you are always scum?

[heuristically_alone]

Wait I'm sorry I mixed two games up (and you aren't even playing in the other one).

Anyway, I think Severa, NM and Aristo are town.
Slight townread on Bella.

Would lynch everyone else. (HA, pista, Snarky or Titus.)
I find HA the most suspicious, but that mainly has to do with his day 1 play.

I've gotten lynched D1 in roughly 80% of my games. In fact, I believe this is the first time I've made it all the way to D3!

[heuristically_alone]

VOTE: Titus

I am fine with this

[heuristically_alone]

Like, there isn't much to say. I am an awkward person in general. RC ceding control was wierd and made no sense. I was confused. RC perceived that as awkward.

Tbh, I think RC is throwing me out as bait. I really don't get it but there are like five mislynches here. So I am just going to place RC on ignore unless he wants to talk about reads.

I like this Titus still.
Sorry Sev.

I don't like it in the sense that I don't care how awkward of a person you are. All I care about is what your posts say.

[heuristically_alone]

Like, there isn't much to say. I am an awkward person in general. RC ceding control was wierd and made no sense. I was confused. RC perceived that as awkward.

Tbh, I think RC is throwing me out as bait. I really don't get it but there are like five mislynches here. So I am just going to place RC on ignore unless he wants to talk about reads.

I have 5 mislynches indeed.

If you're not going to engage me, you're going to be the first of them regardless of your alignment.

For the record, the ONLY time Titus has tried to shut down communication between us was when I was deathtunneling her and refusing to even discuss outside stuff. This on the other hand is me trying to poke and prod her into helping me improve my read on her and she's trying to close communication.

I will genuinely be beyond shocked if this is town: while this isn't confscum like I said Postie was, it's a stronger scumread than BlueYoshi.

Hey, you didn't like it either. I feel better about a Titus lynch.

@Not_Mafia Baby, don't hurt me.