Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[Imperium]

@Imperium

– Again you were my number 1 Town read going into Night 2 and the kill doesn’t change that. I need you to talk to me and give me your reads on Ocean and Kill. And with some whys would be great. I have some things I think I am seeing but want confirmation from an outside source.

Why are Imperium your number one townread? You found it suspicious that I voted Snarky but you didn't find Imperium's vote there suspect at all when a good part of their reasoning amounted to sheeping Radiant?

I also want to hear what things are that you seeing from me and Killthestory.

Can you decide what avenue you're going to push our snarky vote from? Either we sheeped RC, or we were trying to figure out his alignment, or we're sheeping RC.

And why the hell wasn't this an issue for you yesterday when we were voting snarky?????????????????????????

You misunderstood the intent of the question. I was accusing Magna of treating you and me inconsistently, not making a statement about your vote.

So then do you or do you not have a problem with our snarky vote? And if yes, how come this wasn't a problem yesterday???

[Imperium]

The 'for now' is key. It hints to how I will reevaluate my read on Virtue in case I'm wrong about Massive. But I happen to know Acryon does not PL as town and here he started out suggesting a PL on kain. And nobody has responded to that yet so I might need to put in more power in my statement.

VOTE: massive

I will get to in-depth reads later, most likely will not finish them this weekend because busy with mother's day as well (lots of prepping).

You know you get to elaborate on this acryon and not pling thing as town right?

[Imperium]

Wait ocean wind - did you or did you not argue that if we're halfway decent competent players then it would be odd for us to be scum partners with snarky due to the way the suspicion played our but you're arguing that we're scum with ranger for a very similar thing. Am I getting that right???

Are we competent or are we idiots. I'd like you to keep your story straight.

Also, if kts is town he's the one being buddied I think.

[OceanWind]

Um, are you okay? I feel like we're talking past each other but I'll go through your more recent posts and re-explain

[Imperium]

I'm good. Probably tired, but yeah re-explain or link to the posts where you already answered and I missed it.

[OceanWind]

Look at it from my perspective though - you and Magna both seem reasonably competent. You said you knew each other from before and were strongly townreading each other from D1 on. Neither of you have died for two nights and at least one player that died didn't leave any PR crumbs (Magna's words). Here we are D3, not having lynched a single mafioso, and Magna hasn't re-evaluated his read in the slightest - in fact he explicitly stated that the kill doesn't change anything. You also don't seem to have any concerns about Magna other than that he could be partnered with me.

I mean, if you've got some secret ways of reading each other, maybe it makes sense to you but to me from the outside looking in, I'm still struggling to see how you guys winded up with such strong, unwavering townreads while I've struggled to find even a single townread.

[Killthestory]

real motherfuckin g's
real motherfuckin g's

[Imperium]

Oh radiant cowbells was obviously vt; I have no clue why he died. Nacho thinks it's a ranger kill.

I think its pretty obvious I'm reevaluating everything at the moment. And I do think Magna is more likely to be town, why do you not???, but I'm also reevaluating everything right now. There's no we're saying we know each other from back then, you can easily meta 2012 all of us to see that I played in the majority of our games together, well mine at least.

As far as reading me goes, I'm an easy read, like seriously I'm a super easy read. Nacho's a whole other story. If I'm taking the lead in a hydra to the extent I have, we're town. I'm the one who pushed that CoM read; if that kind of push comes from me, I'm town. It really is that simple.

One of my biggest weaknesses is that if someone else has a strong read and believes in it, I listen. RC listened when I wanted him to; I listened when he wants me to. If I thought for one second Snarky was town and I'd found anything to identify that, I'd have spoken out, but I didn't.

I have concerns on almost everyone right now for a variety of reasons, and as i reread the game I'll get through them.

[OceanWind]

Post 1552 and Post 1555 was where I talk about my Magna suspicion.

Ranger calling the game cancer and regretting replacing into it was what shook my suspicion of her. Then Snarky came in and completely ignoring everything that was going on or explaining his Radiant read, made

yet

another random-ish statement about how Ranger was a bad wagon. That was the breaking point where I felt that it just made more sense to eliminate Snarky first and try to spend more time reading Ranger. There was no emotional response. 1478 was tongue-in-cheek. That wasn't the entirety of my reasoning. I thought why I suspected Snarky was pretty obvious given D1 and my posts about him throughout D2.

What about Radiant's posts made you change your read? Also, I don't think you've called Radiant town. You just said, you were second-guessing your scumread.

So then do you or do you not have a problem with our snarky vote? And if yes, how come this wasn't a problem yesterday???

I don't think your suspicion of Snarky was completely unreasonable. He was hard to read. But I also felt that you were more confident in your read on Ranger than Snarky i.e. you used stronger wording and reacted more emotionally to Ranger. The lack of switching stuck out to me especially when Magna - the person you were so happy to be playing with and was clearly town in your mind - was the one that suggested a switch. From your perspective, I expected that you'd collaborate with your strong townread and lynch the player you suspected over sticking with difficult-to-read player like Snarky on the word of someone you weren't even certain was town (Radiant) just because he helped you with a wagon.

Wait ocean wind - did you or did you not argue that if we're halfway decent competent players then it would be odd for us to be scum partners with snarky due to the way the suspicion played our but you're arguing that we're scum with ranger for a very similar thing. Am I getting that right???

Are we competent or are we idiots. I'd like you to keep your story straight.

No, I think there are differences in your interactions with Snarky and Ranger.

1. With Snarky, you obviously and blatantly derailed his wagon to lynch ChurchOfMercy. With Ranger, you simply suspected him throughout but kept your vote on your other suspect.

2. Snarky was a pretty certain lynch if he were mafia. Ranger is a decent player who's vocal, active, and I think capable of talking her way out of suspicion a lot better than Snarky. Going out of your way to save Snarky would be stupid if you were mafia with him. Keeping your vote on Snarky and ignoring Magna's call to lynch Ranger, not so stupid if you were mafia with Ranger.

As far as reading me goes, I'm an easy read, like seriously I'm a super easy read. Nacho's a whole other story. If I'm taking the lead in a hydra to the extent I have, we're town. I'm the one who pushed that CoM read; if that kind of push comes from me, I'm town. It really is that simple.

Why isn't Nachomamma8 paying more attention to the game? He said he liked this playerlist so once he got over being drunk, he should have been back, right?

[OceanWind]

I'm amused that right after I express annoyance with people not answering questions, you respond to my questions by peppering me with twenty other questions while not answering the ones I actually asked. I'll put them in one place for convenience:

1. Why were you townreading MagnaOfIllusion (I'm talking about the D1-D2 read that you said you'd explain but didn't get around to doing)?
2. What of Radiant's posts made you uncertain about him when you suspected him overnight?

[Ollie]

@Ollie -

a few questions for you:

1. Your suspicion of Lowell was based on him not responding to you (among other things)

During this time, he didn't respond to a big post I mostly directed at him. 541 This is yet more evasion which he was doing earlier in the game, that kind of thing was why he fell into my scum leans.

Most of the game was doing this including Snarky and Severa. Why weren't they in your pool of suspects?

2. Did you go through RadiantCowbell's other games?

@SEVERA we should see some of your previous games, doesn't matter if they're on a different site.

What conclusions did you draw from them considering your request here? Are you normally the type of player that bothers reading through completed games? What do you generally look for and how in-depth do you read games you are not in? If Severa had linked offsite games for you, what would you have done?

I town read Severa for tone & he wasn't evading me. I only really pushed Severa for some games to verify that was consistent with his town game, & he ended up switching accounts so I got what I wanted & more. Then quite a few people knew him, & were town reading him so I paired that with my earlier town read. I'm not usually the type of player who looks through people's past games, but I thought the character RC was playing with Severa would be easy to read so made an exception. I lost interest in that when RC joined the game as himself & was bizarrely like a different person, so went off what others knew of him instead.

I looked into Snarky as possible scum as he actually was evading some of my questions, then found out he gets mislynched alot & people were dismissing his abilities yet still voting for him. These things made me think he was being targeted as an easy mislynch by some (Ranger one of them), & just being voted for out of frustration at being crap by others. Which put him in my null pile.

[Virtue]

VOTE: Nosferatu

Let's fight this out.

T: Imp, Ranger,Ocean, Magna, Ollie

why do you have Ranger and Ocean as town?

VOTE: Nosferatu

Let's fight this out.

T: Imp, Ranger,Ocean, Magna, Ollie

why do you have Ranger and Ocean as town?

wait whoa whoa whoa aren't you the one who said we've been buddied and need a hard reset? what did you mean by that? And why do you have the people who I was assuming you were claiming were buddying us and we needed to reset about us as town???

I didn't actually specify who was buddying you. Yet, I don't think it's Ranger by context. I think the people buddying you were the ones not objecting to your snowman case.

I feel the Ranger and Oceanwind are pretty solidly town. They just feel like a radical departure from their scumgames.

Ranger avoids read walls for the most part and reassessment in the face of bad logic. In her recent scum Micro, she refused to consider that her buddy was scum in a 6 player lylo situation despite that situation being very viable to a town Ranger. Here, she's reconsidering a Magna read when the meta does not match.

As for Ocean, his pushes seem rather genuine. Unless you're going for a selective pushing angle (which dictates Ocean Now), I cannot see that.

[Virtue]

Gods seriously if you're going to sign up as an alt, fucking play as an alt. Being all like oh "I know x player does y' is shit and you should not do that. If you're going to act with your knowledge, just freaking play as yourself.

This policy would ban alts entirely. No one can just shut off knowledge they have.

[Virtue]

Sub Virtue for Titus

My alt was exposed in another game. If you want me to sub out Tammy, I will.

[Killthestory]

G R E E T I N G S T R A V E L E R

[Nosferatu]

ayy titus

had literally no idea it was you

[Titus]

ayy titus

had literally no idea it was you

So the comments about VCA needing a scumslip were a coincidence?

[Nosferatu]

yeah. What good could VCA possibly be if you just have townflips lol

[Titus]

yeah. What good could VCA possibly be if you just have townflips lol

I get asked to do my VCA all the time with just townflips. You can but it's just pure theorycrafting. And cannot really clear anyone.

Still, saying there's no one here good at VCA and then using a line that's commonly thrown at me kinda made me think you had found my alt rather than being serious.

If you weren't alt provoking me, why make those comments about VCA when we don't have a scum flip?

[Nosferatu]

yeah. What good could VCA possibly be if you just have townflips lol

I get asked to do my VCA all the time with just townflips. You can but it's just pure theorycrafting. And cannot really clear anyone.

Still, saying there's no one here good at VCA and then using a line that's commonly thrown at me kinda made me think you had found my alt rather than being serious.

If you weren't alt provoking me, why make those comments about VCA when we don't have a scum flip?

I haven't done VCA in a while and the game hasn't been panning out as much as I would've liked it to, so VCA would've been a nice option for today.

[Titus]

But why make comments about something you have no intention of doing?

[Imperium]

Hi Titus! You don't have to sub out. Still sorry I haven't responded to your email. I'm super behind on life right now.

OW - I did answer your question, you just didn't like it. I'm not going to really talk about reads until I reread the game. I've already talked about Magna. This just hasn't felt like his scum game. Ranger was right about magna and him having that aha feeling. That fits in more like his town game. You can save your why and where question follow up. RC's frustration and the way he reacted to the suspicion on him read more town, along with his self meta. As did him complaining that we were posting in another game and not here (which incidentally is where we started suspecting his slot in that other game). It was frustrating for that as people were getting after us for quick hammering scum after asking the night before for the game to give them time to come back and claim. They fake claimed doctor and we quick hammered (we were the doc). I don't know if RC was keeping up with the game after he replaced out, but he knew we were town in that game. Therefore him getting antsy that we were posting in that game over a matter of hours and not here while annoying looked more like town impatience, especially if he was scum in that game and knew we were posting in a town game first.

I drank too much last night and now have a monster headache. I'm going to try to start rereading today.

Nacho hasn't been posting in this game because I'm selfish. He does like this playerlist, but we've both been really busy in real life and we got ourselves overloaded in games. We were hydraing in more than one game and Gumball was annoying me, so I asked if I could take this game to post in and he could take that game. We keep current in each of the games as we talk regularly, but it saves us time this way. I imagine he'll be back and posting when he's caught up with his other games or if I need him to do something in particular, but until that happens, you've got me. (Which to anyone even moderately familiar with either one of us should clear up any doubts about our alignment. I can't imagine a world where I ask to take the lead in a scum game when there's a town game I could have taken the lead in. Although that should also already be clear from the way I pushed CoM, so.)

[Nosferatu]

But why make comments about something you have no intention of doing?

no idea.

[Titus]

Tammy, when you read up please help me rope Nos or explain where I am wrong.

[Titus]

Wait, what email Tammy? I don't recall emails...did you mean a PM?