Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[OceanWind]

@Masquerade -

my gut is telling me Ranger is scum so I'm going to look into that slot in a bit and elaborate on that later.

1. Have you looked into the slot yet? Please elaborate when you do get a chance.

If I had to name 3 suspects rn it would be Ranger, Massive (Acryon doesn't PL as town) and Virtue. Ranger and Massive I'm quite confident in rn, Virtue not so much but it's all still superficial.

No, but having played with him more than once, I don't think it would be absurd to say that his death early is almost as good, if not better, for town as a scum-death.

I hear your stance. I guess the original question remains - do you normally champion policy lynches Day 1? Or is this specific only to Kain?

Oh yeah no definitely not. I've never seen a player more disruptive to town progression than KT. I'm still not fully on board with the idea of policy lynches, but KT's existence is truly terrible for town and the game will be a lot more enjoyable/easier to process for all townies with him gone.

2. Did you read this bit Masquerade? If so, how does it affect your read on Acryon/massive? Do you think if he was vocally against policy-lynches, he would have forgotten about that as mafia and tried to do a policy-lynch?

Just read Bella/Virtue and I don;t believe they're scum with Massive and I'm pretty confident that slot is scum so Virtue can be town for now.

3. Mind elaborating on this?

The 'for now' is key. It hints to how I will reevaluate my read on Virtue in case I'm wrong about Massive. But I happen to know Acryon does not PL as town and here he started out suggesting a PL on kain. And nobody has responded to that yet so I might need to put in more power in my statement.

VOTE: massive

4. There was a wagon on your other suspect (Ranger). Is there a reason you choose to push the suspect with no wagon on him as opposed to the one with the wagon? It can't be for "pressure" since Acryon has replaced out and is no position to give you a response.

[Imperium]

OW - This is just another indication of you not actually reading what I've said, and that bothers me especially when you're touting yourself as a rational player. I read your paranoia as fake. I don't think that you're actually having that difficult of a time finding a town read. Trying to divide my hydra by insulting me and praising nacho is scummy. You feel like you're putting on a show in trying to figure out the game rather than actually figuring out the game. I've felt like that since early game with your interaction with Lowell and you making a show of doing iso's on like page four of the game. I've been in part watching you in case this is just your play style and in part because you remind me so damn much of a player that was permanently banned from this site for his harassment of me that I'm allowing for the possibility that that is coloring my read of you. (Just so you know, if I were scum you would be dead for this very reason. I feel like I've been quite diplomatic and straight forward with you, but you have a rather condescending tone that prevents an actual conversation from taking place.) My talking about the way that you are interacting with Nosferatu isn't preventing her from answering you. She was responding to you. Do you think it was productive? It didn't look productive from where I'm sitting. Maybe, just maybe if you changed your approach, you'd get better results.

But where you're not actually reading is where it's the most concerning. Take your recent wall about Lowell. I never called Lowell a "strong town read" so I don't know where you're getting that interpretation. Especially since I literally said my reasoning was not a smoking gun for him being town but there were posts I liked. I also pointed out things I didn't like, namely his strong town reads on snarky and alone. I talked about what I saw in meta reading him, said he was someone I liked, but that he was, like everyone else someone I was going to reevaluate upon my reread. (And now that diffusion of power is over, I can say that in that game he was a little more active but not really super active, he did put more effort in some of his reads, but he also had strong town reads for little to no reason and he said that he works from town reads mostly.)

Why would we town read you for suspecting ABR in that instance? Have you played with ABR? Do you enjoy playing with ABR? (I know the answer is no because you just said that you had followed a couple games of his.) Lowell looked happy to be playing with ABR and had expressed a connection with him in the early game. Therefore he has experience with him. When you enjoy playing with people and you are town you usually want them to be town which is why his post about being sad that ABR was probably scum rang true for me. That recognition of Damn someone I enjoy playing with and hates scum is probably scum was how I felt when I realized he was probably scum.

So, no I'm not going to town read you for scum reading ABR when what I liked about the post had nothing to do with the scum read in and of itself, but the expression of disappointment that he had drawn scum.

[Killthestory]

I'm gonna RNG a number. Whoever it lands on is gonna be lynched today

[massive]

1713 just removed any doubt I had that Imperium wasn't town.

OceanWind -- I want you to townread me, so what can I do to help move you in that direction? I may not have the quantity of posts that other players might, but surely I can post something in terms of quality that can be helpful.

[Titus]

Oh now that Cyberpunk has ended, Titus one of the reasons I didn't like CoM early on was because he felt like he was doing the same thing he did to me in that game with throwing soft suspicion my way. Like in Cyberpunk when DGB called me town, he responded with something like I was a good player so she shouldn't town read me that soon. (It was where I first started suspecting your slot btw because it didn't feel right.) ABR said he hadn't read our posts yet and mentioned us being good players then had us as a gut scum read but didn't actually push us or interact with us about it. Since he had just drawn scum in Cyberpunk and recently been lynched, I thought his demeanor here reflected his resignation to drawing yet another scum role so soon.

Understand your perception. ABR was actually depressed though that I wouldn't win at all costs and that our scumteam was "soft", then he has a "soft" hydra partner. He decided that he was done with the site when I wouldn't let him personally attack our scumbuddies and said him wanting to drive you from the game was messed up as fuck. I get the perception on why that was true but I think this type of exact scenario is why others have warned me against rigid emotional categories for reading people that way. (Tbh, I like rigid rules easier to implement when I suck with body language.)

[Titus]

I didn't specify town reads. I just asked you to explain your reads. It doesn't seem like there's anything behind your townreads other than "they just seem like town" which doesn't make any sense to me because there has to be a reason why their posts made you feel that way.

I don't really buy into "tonal reads" but if you want to want to elaborate on your non-town reads, I'd like to hear them.

when I get a proper scum read I'll make sure to consult you.
UNVOTE:

So at this point you have no reads?

[OceanWind]

@Imperium - I wasn't trying to "divide" your hydra. I think you've been hyper-abrasive with me before I had even made a single post addressing you. Perhaps, your intent was sincere and you were trying to offer advice and help but that just goes to show that people have different playstyles and don't really appreciate "advice" on changing their playstyle to something else. I scumhunt by encouraging people to post large quantities of text, the more they post, the better I can read them. I'm not going to change my playstyle. I'm not going to ask you to change your playstyle either so you asking that wasn't reasonable and probably why I reacted by telling you I don't appreciate mafia advice. If I said "hey, I don't like how you are questioning this player, change your approach," would you be likely to actually change it or just tell me to screw off (or some variation)? I think the latter is more likely. Everyone that has a well-developed playstyle will react the same way. I'm not going to play like you and you won't play like me.

[OceanWind]

If you are re-reading everyone, then you have no solid townreads either (or do you? If so, who?) Why do you think it's so unreasonable that I don't have any? Do you think my most viable strategy as mafia is to interrogate everyone and complain about the lack of townreads rather than have strategic reads that benefit me? I would not be this frustrated as mafia in such an environment that favors them.

I didn't say you had Lowell as a strong townread. You are arguing just to argue on this one. You said you were re-reading everyone but

specifically

pointed out that Lowell was the one you like. My going through Lowell's ISO was partly a response to your asking me why I have no townreads while you apparently had him as a townread. In the process, I winded up thinking his slot is more likely mafia than not. If you are indeed town here, please stop just trying to refute everything I say and actually look into your Lowell read. I think I've made a lot of valid points (in fact, I think they were relatively strong compared to my other pushes). I get you are digging your heels in (as you say Nosferatu would have) but it's not about who was right. I don't really care about who is right. I just want to add another win on my record.

Lowell expressing disappointment is a good reason to townread him. But when that's the only thing of significance in a mostly-useless ISO, I think it's worth re-evaluating. I didn't see where you said you didn't like his strong townreads on SnarkySnowman and heuristically_alone. Quote them for me if you can. Onto your point that he expresses townreads out of nowhere when he's town, I don't think that outweighs how unreasonable his reads were (heuristically_alone as strong town).

It's a little hard to figure out what you are saying when you claim to be re-reading him, but say that that's the one read you like, then accuse me of having no townreads, and when I scrutinize yours, it's "I said I was re-evaluating Lowell, how dare you say I was strong-townreading him." I mean, really?

[OceanWind]

All this while, you have expertly dodged my question as to why you were townreading MagnaOfIllusion D1 and D2. I'm not asking for your current read on him (I'll wait until you do your re-read). What I'm asking was why you were townreading him before. I asked Nachomamma8 D1. He didn't respond and neither did you. It's not about your current read, it's about figuring out whether you two are mafia together and were faking your read or whether it was a real read. Why were you townreading him before?

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE: Ranger

VOTE: Kill

At this stage I don’t think Ranger and Kill are scum together. And kill is pretty obv-scum at this stage. He dislikes scum roles. Again for those interested in reading here are some links –

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1175

Read his post-game comments about being “too lazy” to put in the effort to try and get a mislynch on a player who had fake-claimed a guilty on a Town player the day before. In our recently completed Micro game together he was part of a hydra and just flaked out under no pressure at all. He put no effort in working as a teammate in the QT. Scum Kill can't realistically fake scum-hunting.

Now look at his play this game and tell me hes' trying.

Why does Kill shoot RC overnight? Is RC that much harder to mislynch than Severa in that slot?

Absolutely. Kill-scum is scared to death of RC Town. Kill knows that he is never getting RC lynched. His flip-flop on the slot shortly after the ‘RC-is-Severa’ makes absolute sense from scum Kill. RC has a tendancy to OMGUS people who suspect him. Kill moving away rather abruptly from reading Radiant as scum is a pretty expected move if he’s scum.

The 'for now' is key. It hints to how I will reevaluate my read on Virtue in case I'm wrong about Massive. But I happen to know Acryon does not PL as town and here he started out suggesting a PL on kain. And nobody has responded to that yet so I might need to put in more power in my statement.

Links are needed to establish this is meaningful at all.

[OceanWind]

1713 just removed any doubt I had that Imperium wasn't town.

OceanWind -- I want you to townread me, so what can I do to help move you in that direction? I may not have the quantity of posts that other players might, but surely I can post something in terms of quality that can be helpful.

What of 1713 made you townread Imperium? I mean, I get why ate-ish posts get townread but I'm asking for more specifics.

You can get me to townread you by pushing who I want.

But serious answer - hammer out in-depth reads on everyone in the game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Tried way too hard to make things seem scummy yesterday.

This post in conjunction with 1701 1708 squarely put Nos as a viable scum suspect for me.

Because 1632 is so far and away from anything closely associated with being analytical.

I said I was reading snarky's games, why didn't you interact with me about that?

Can you point out where you said that? Because I don’t recall it at all.

Also – why didn’t you respond to my question about your Ocean and Kill reads?

Because 1552 is so scummy I can’t imagine it didn’t twig you. Snarky has been lynched but hasn’t even flipped yet. Yet Ocean swoops in and is ready to assess blame related to the Snarky mislynch. But who is the person he most suspects? Me – for properly reading and assessing Snarky as not likely scum. And I was more than clear about my reasoning for Snarky Town – the supposed meta read from Ranger I disagreed with and there was no scum motivation for Snarky to try and push on RC (who I was correctly reading Town) who would probably be one of the hardest mislynches to sell in the game.

Add in his soft defense of Killthestory (who, up until recently, was completely off the Ocean’s radar) and his constant need to push on people’s Townreads (asking again and again for reasoning). I see a recipie for scum who doesn’t want players getting comfortable with each other and spends far too much time worrying about breaking down Town reads (and perhaps Town blocks forming) and too little time actually pushing his scum suspects to be lynched.

[OceanWind]

his constant need to push on people’s Townreads (asking again and again for reasoning).

I see. So, it doesn't bother you in the slightest that Imperium has dodged providing reasons for townreading you for over three weeks now but instead it bothers you that I'm asking for reasoning. This is why you are mafia.

[OceanWind]

Why are you townreading Imperium, MagnaOfIllusion?

Both of you have been insisting that the other is town but neither can provide a single concrete reason why.

[MagnaofIllusion]

his constant need to push on people’s Townreads (asking again and again for reasoning).

I see. So, it doesn't bother you in the slightest that Imperium has dodged providing reasons for townreading you for over three weeks now but instead it bothers you that I'm asking for reasoning. This is why you are mafia.

Tammy and I have plenty of experience with each other on MS. For purposes of this discussion I'm excluding Nacho since he's been more or less MIA from the thread for reasons previously stated. I've seen her scum game up close and personal and likewise she has seen mine. Unlike Ranger who really doesn't know me from Adam.

You can say this is fluff all you want. I have a pretty good read on her play. She's engaged. She's pushing multiple lines of discussion which is pretty damn Pro-Town.

You on the other hand more interested in breaking Town reads than pursuing scum reads. I also note you avoid the entirety of the rest of my post on why you were scummy as hell at the end of Day 2 to focus on this one narrow item. Which is how scum plays - don't focus on the whole of the case but try to nitpick a part and say it invalidates the whole.

[OceanWind]

Because 1552 is so scummy I can’t imagine it didn’t twig you. Snarky has been lynched but hasn’t even flipped yet. Yet Ocean swoops in and is ready to assess blame related to the Snarky mislynch. But who is the person he most suspects? Me – for properly reading and assessing Snarky as not likely scum. And I was more than clear about my reasoning for Snarky Town – the supposed meta read from Ranger I disagreed with and there was no scum motivation for Snarky to try and push on RC (who I was correctly reading Town) who would probably be one of the hardest mislynches to sell in the game.

Add in his soft defense of Killthestory (who, up until recently, was completely off the Ocean’s radar) and his constant need to push on people’s Townreads (asking again and again for reasoning). I see a recipie for scum who doesn’t want players getting comfortable with each other and spends far too much time worrying about breaking down Town reads (and perhaps Town blocks forming) and too little time actually pushing his scum suspects to be lynched.

You act like mafia never have "townreads" on town players. If you genuinely wanted to push harder against Snarky, you would have spent time arguing against the mislynch, and tried to push people towards Ranger. But besides the one post you made, you never followed up. When Imperium ignored your call, and I switched back to SnarkySnowman, you didn't pursue it. You didn't have the drive and energy to sway the lynch. You were content keeping your vote on a different wagon and just... letting it happen. That's why I suspect you (among other reasons).

I've pushed RadiantCowbells's slot too as well as yours (who would arguably be a hard lynch). I've also pushed Ranger and Imperium who would probably be harder lynches than most of the rest of the inactive playerlist. But you have me as a suspect so why is Snarky town for pushing a "hard" mislynch?

I've explained my Killthestory read which you ignored. He seems engaged on almost a different level than he was in the game you two were a team. I hate that hammer though and I don't like that he hasn't followed up on his suspicion of Lowell's slot. That's just what my read is and if you want to call that "soft-defending," knock yourself out. If I had an abundance of townreads elsewhere, I'd be pushing hard on Killthestory.

Do you really think the way for mafia to break up a town block is to demand explanations for townreads? You break up town blocks by nightkilling the universal townreads, not by going after players like Xisiqomelir and RadiantCowbells, the latter who lost all credibility after the SnarkySnowman push. Why do find it unlikely that as town looking in from the outside, I just don't trust either you or Imperium being so tight together? Do you find it unreasonable to demand explanations when they weren't forthcoming?

[OceanWind]

You can say this is fluff all you want. I have a pretty good read on her play. She's engaged. She's pushing multiple lines of discussion which is pretty damn Pro-Town.

You on the other hand more interested in breaking Town reads than pursuing scum reads. I also note you avoid the entirety of the rest of my post on why you were scummy as hell at the end of Day 2 to focus on this one narrow item. Which is how scum plays - don't focus on the whole of the case but try to nitpick a part and say it invalidates the whole.

That's so vague I don't know what to tell you. I'm engaged and I'm pushing multiple lines of reasoning and multiple people. Imperium were not engaged. They only show up occasionally and their lines of enquiry for the most part revolve around whoever is suspecting them. D2, it was Ranger. D3, most of their focus has been me.

I have been pursuing scumreads. I've pushed Severa, SnarkySnowman, and Ranger. I've also pushed Imperium who I found suspect for several reasons. I've said all I could say about Ranger so I stopped. If she's town, her posting from now on may change my mind, but it seems like arguing with her isn't particularly making me more or less confident in that read. Imperium have not been pursuing their suspects. They have been arguing with me about playstyle stuff, discrediting everything I did as "looks fake" and have not voted anybody so far.'

That's why I find your assessment ludicrous.

[OceanWind]

But on the point of questioning townreads:

If you are town and you see people townreading others for poor or suspicious reasons, would you not question those reads? Why do you think it's unlikely for town to question them?

[MagnaofIllusion]

You act like mafia never have "townreads" on town players. If you genuinely wanted to push harder against Snarky, you would have spent time arguing against the mislynch, and tried to push people towards Ranger. But besides the one post you made, you never followed up. When Imperium ignored your call, and I switched back to SnarkySnowman, you didn't pursue it. You didn't have the drive and energy to sway the lynch. You were content keeping your vote on a different wagon and just... letting it happen. That's why I suspect you (among other reasons).

This is rich – I’m scum for not pushing hard enough against a Snarky lynch. But you , who self-admittedly jumped back on a wagon being primarily pushed by two of your so-called suspects (Radiant / Ranger), are clearly Town for it.

I've pushed RadiantCowbells's slot too as well as yours (who would arguably be a hard lynch). I've also pushed Ranger and Imperium who would probably be harder lynches than most of the rest of the inactive playerlist. But you have me as a suspect so why is Snarky town for pushing a "hard" mislynch?

See. You haven’t. Not at all. The only two of your suspect that have any modicum of pressure were Ranger (which I’ve pushed much harder than you) and Snarky (a mislynch).

I've explained my Killthestory read which you ignored. He seems engaged on almost a different level than he was in the game you two were a team. I hate that hammer though and I don't like that he hasn't followed up on his suspicion of Lowell's slot. That's just what my read is and if you want to call that "soft-defending," knock yourself out. If I had an abundance of townreads elsewhere, I'd be pushing hard on Killthestory.

One game meta is the reasoning for your read? Lol that’s terrible. I mean – scum looking for any straw to reach for a Town read on a partner terrible. He isn’t engaged in this game AT ALL. Yet you deride my read on Imprium’s engagement as bad. In fact here you list multiple reasons why Kill is scummy but basically hide behind why you aren’t pushing him is that “you don’t have enough Town reads”. You have never addressed the fact that he’s constantly moved away from Scum reads when tactically it benefits scum-Kill (RC read, CoM read). You are absolutely doing everything in your power to not push or scum-read the slot while having multiple stated reasons for doing so.

Do you really think the way for mafia to break up a town block is to demand explanations for townreads? You break up town blocks by nightkilling the universal townreads, not by going after players like Xisiqomelir and RadiantCowbells, the latter who lost all credibility after the SnarkySnowman push. Why do find it unlikely that as town looking in from the outside, I just don't trust either you or Imperium being so tight together? Do you find it unreasonable to demand explanations when they weren't forthcoming?

Funny you mention the kills as not being Universally Town read – which leads to the logical conclusion that they suspected the Mafia. Which is Kill (who is Xis’s only significant suspicion) and yourself (Radiant’s only read besides Snarky was assessing you were likely scum just before Nightfall).

I also find it suspect you are trying to peddle “Radiant had no credibility” when I know for a fact there are several players still in the game who would happily sheep him regardless of the Snarky flip.

I've said all I could say about Ranger so I stopped.

Hello scum motivated line. Because Town don’t stop pushing authentic scum-reads and then “stop” when you have “nothing more to say”.

[Killthestory]

lol

[Masquerade]

@Oceanwind (irt 1725)
1. Haven't gotten the chance yet, sadly. The hinting at a PR in her 1714 pinged me when I caught up with the latest posts, but that's the closest thing to something concrete I have rn.
2. I don't remember if I read that, I skimmed over a lot but I do remember I hesitated and looked into several other games. It's something I can;t yet really elaborate on until a specific game is over. I think I repeated several times there were ongoing reasons, so why are you pushing me to elaborate on this?
3. That's simply a pre-flip association. I do those, it's automatic, and it's not set in stone. I will reconsider once I see a flip, and we can only lynch one player a day so I don't really see a problem with that. Titus' first posts after replacing in with her main make me lean town on her individually.
4. I was more certain of my Acryon/Massive-read (well, more an opinion than a read I guess since I still have to properly look at them) than my Ranger-read. I said Ranger was based on gut, you apparently got the reason for my Massive-vote, I don't get where you're trying to go with this question?

And as I'm reading along I'm liking Magna a lot and Ocean not so much.

[Masquerade]

Also, I broke my glasses today so reading will be slower. But I can still read so finally do some isos tonight.

[OceanWind]

This is rich – I’m scum for not pushing hard enough against a Snarky lynch. But you, who self-admittedly jumped back on a wagon being primarily pushed by two of your so-called suspects (Radiant / Ranger), are clearly Town for it.

This is missing my point entirely. I had suspicion of Snarky. I also thought he was a better utility lynch than my other suspect Ranger. On Radiant, a) my suspicion of him declined after his meltdown, and b) even while I suspected Radiant, I strongly considered the possibility of bussing.

But you haven't addressed my actual point - you didn't have any determination to prevent the mislynch of Snarky. You were just posing for the cameras. You stated a townread, made a single call to lynch Ranger, and ignored my switchback and Imperium's lack of response which pretty much guaranteed that SnarkySnowman was getting lynched.

See. You haven’t. Not at all. The only two of your suspect that have any modicum of pressure were Ranger (which I’ve pushed much harder than you) and Snarky (a mislynch).

Snarky being a mislynch doesn't invalidate my point that I was pursuing him. I also kickstarted a wagon on Severa when I had him as a stronger suspect than Snarky. The fact that nobody agrees with me on the MagnaOfIllusion/Imperium suspicion and isn't pressuring them is a fault of my ability to corral a wagon, and of both of your abilities to look superficially town.

By your logic, you haven't gotten any pressure on Killthestory despite trying. Should I fault you for not being able to put pressure on him?

One game meta is the reasoning for your read? Lol that’s terrible. I mean – scum looking for any straw to reach for a Town read on a partner terrible. He isn’t engaged in this game AT ALL. Yet you deride my read on Imprium’s engagement as bad. In fact here you list multiple reasons why Kill is scummy but basically hide behind why you aren’t pushing him is that “you don’t have enough Town reads”. You have never addressed the fact that he’s constantly moved away from Scum reads when tactically it benefits scum-Kill (RC read, CoM read). You are absolutely doing everything in your power to not push or scum-read the slot while having multiple stated reasons for doing so.

I gave one reason for why Killthestory is scummy - the hammer. Why would I push Killthestory in particular when I'm also suspicious of you, Ranger, Imperium, Lowell, etc for a start? You could just as easily make the argument that I'm partnered with Lowell because I outline suspicion of him, yet don't vote him. Or Ranger because I hopped off her wagon at the last moment. I can't vote all my suspects at once.

Funny you mention the kills as not being Universally Town read – which leads to the logical conclusion that they suspected the Mafia. Which is Kill (who is Xis’s only significant suspicion) and yourself (Radiant’s only read besides Snarky was assessing you were likely scum just before Nightfall).

I also find it suspect you are trying to peddle “Radiant had no credibility” when I know for a fact there are several players still in the game who would happily sheep him regardless of the Snarky flip.

I could see the Xisiqomelir nightkill from you considering you played with him before and therefore, he's the most likely to eventually catch onto you despite townreading you. Letting him die while townreading you is probably a better play than leaving him alive to re-evaluate that read.

I could see the RadiantCowbells kill from both Ranger and Imperium since they seemed to admire Radiant the most. The last thing he said was that I could be mafia which makes it easier to frame me. If I'm not hunting for power roles when I'm mafia, I tend to kill people townreading me so as to not leave any tracks. Killing someone after they called you mafia with their last post is dumb.

Who are these players that would sheep RadiantCowbells? Imperium and Ranger? Do you think you have more or less credibility that Radiant? Why push you and kill him as opposed to kill you and push him? Do you think you are a stronger player than RadiantCowbells?

Hello scum motivated line. Because Town don’t stop pushing authentic scum-reads and then “stop” when you have “nothing more to say”.

I haven't stopped trying to figure out the game. I'm interested in seeing what Ranger would produce without being pushed, and what pushes she would make naturally if addressing questions didn't occupy the majority of the time she had for this game.

[OceanWind]

@Oceanwind (irt 1725)
1. Haven't gotten the chance yet, sadly. The hinting at a PR in her 1714 pinged me when I caught up with the latest posts, but that's the closest thing to something concrete I have rn.
2. I don't remember if I read that, I skimmed over a lot but I do remember I hesitated and looked into several other games. It's something I can;t yet really elaborate on until a specific game is over. I think I repeated several times there were ongoing reasons, so why are you pushing me to elaborate on this?
3. That's simply a pre-flip association. I do those, it's automatic, and it's not set in stone. I will reconsider once I see a flip, and we can only lynch one player a day so I don't really see a problem with that. Titus' first posts after replacing in with her main make me lean town on her individually.
4. I was more certain of my Acryon/Massive-read (well, more an opinion than a read I guess since I still have to properly look at them) than my Ranger-read. I said Ranger was based on gut, you apparently got the reason for my Massive-vote, I don't get where you're trying to go with this question?

And as I'm reading along I'm liking Magna a lot and Ocean not so much.

This is a load of junk by the way.

UNVOTE: Ranger
VOTE: Masquerade

1. Here, Masquerade is townreading Ranger's predecessor Jim, yet when Ranger (in his view) hints at a PR, that changes to a scumread as opposed to just assuming that the Jim/Ranger slot is a PR and town. More likely, he saw Ranger get heat and decided to change his read with crap-ass reasoning.

2. I asked Masquerade to comment on Acryon admitting in this thread that he doesn't like policy-lynches, yet is making an exception for KainTepes. This undermines Masquerade's point that Acryon is inconsistently pushing a policy-lynch when he doesn't as town. That has nothing to do with ongoing games. I took his claim at face value and didn't ask him to source it.

3. It's obvious that the pre-flip association is load of baloney because Masquerade can't explain it. He's confident massive is mafia because Acryon pursued a policy-lynch, and clears Virtue for no reason at all.

4. His liking MagnaOfIllusion and "not liking me" is a pile of nonsense he made up because I was questioning him and getting pressure from both Imperium, and MagnaOfIllusion.

[MagnaofIllusion]

But you haven't addressed my actual point - you didn't have any determination to prevent the mislynch of Snarky. You were just posing for the cameras. You stated a townread, made a single call to lynch Ranger, and ignored my switchback and Imperium's lack of response which pretty much guaranteed that SnarkySnowman was getting lynched.

Um, whut? I didn’t prevent his mislynch and thus I'm scum? Funny that’s the kind of thinking that comes from scum slots who actually know the alignment of the other players.

I did my best to prevent the mislynch by clearly stating my position and trying to the best of my ability to get my scum suspects (Ranger and Kill) lynched instead. Yet you are straining to suggest somehow I just passively let the lynch go through without speaking out about it.

And you keep dodging the salient point that your suspicion pre-flip doesn’t make any sense form a Town perspective. You are claiming to have Radiant and Ranger scum-reads yesterday. They push through a lynch on Snarky. Yet your reaction when Snarky claims to be Town? You don’t accuse either of your so-called scum reads out for pushing the mislynch. You instead attack someone who didn’t vote for Snarky and repeatedly said they were likely Town. Your progression of reads there isn’t logical. Thus scummy and fabricated.

Snarky being a mislynch doesn't invalidate my point that I was pursuing him. I also kickstarted a wagon on Severa when I had him as a stronger suspect than Snarky. The fact that nobody agrees with me on the MagnaOfIllusion/Imperium suspicion and isn't pressuring them is a fault of my ability to corral a wagon, and of both of your abilities to look superficially town.

Yet your claimed push on Snarky was completely coat-tailed on the pressure from Radiant and Ranger. And since you are acquiescing to not really pushing Ranger as I said that just leaves Severa / Radiant. It is telling that of your claimed suspects two have flipped Town, you are claiming to step-away from one (Ranger, despite leaving the vote on her) so they can “do stuff”, and the remainder are Imperium and myself neither of which you have actually voted for today. And I know for a fact your claimed read on me is incorrect. That leaves Imperium who I Town-read.

Do you think it is out of the question for a Town player to look at that series of claimed scum-reads and find it suspect?

I could see the Xisiqomelir nightkill from you considering you played with him before and therefore, he's the most likely to eventually catch onto you despite townreading you. Letting him die while townreading you is probably a better play than leaving him alive to re-evaluate that read.

I could see the RadiantCowbells kill from both Ranger and Imperium since they seemed to admire Radiant the most. The last thing he said was that I could be mafia which makes it easier to frame me. If I'm not hunting for power roles when I'm mafia, I tend to kill people townreading me so as to not leave any tracks. Killing someone after they called you mafia with their last post is dumb.

Oh it’s a frame job now. Lol.

Also this conflicts with your earlier stance that “Mafia Nightkill those Universally Town-Read” looks like you are pretty blatantly not answering from an honest opinion base but simply looking to make the argument that suits your needs at the moment.

But go ahead and link me to games where you actively have chosen to nightkill people who were Townreading you as opposed to players who were suspecting you. I’m eager to see those games.