kuribo in Wonderland - [Game Over]

[G[o]dz]

If Feito-sama were to put his burning fury for all things related to the Spiffeh wagon aside, SirCakez is not an awful candidate for a bullet. And probably would have been my first choice for a bullet had the Spiffeh wagon not happened as it did.

[G[o]dz]

For the record, these are the standings currently:

Spiffeh [9] - Skybird, Kagami, hiplop, Spiffeh, BROseidon, Albert B. Rampage, zakk, Kastuki, DrippingGoofball
Fate [7] - Fate, kuribo, KittyMo, implosion, SirCakez, BrianSkies, G[o]dz

Votes don't count for shit [5] - camn, Nachomamma8, Antihero('s replacement), SXTLHGaiden, Axelrod

[Fate]

I think Cakez could've easily justified a swing onto Spiffeh for a Nacho lynch but was against doing so.

[as scum]

What don't you like about his play besides?

[G[o]dz]

I actually don't like anything about his play. His reads seem insincere and what little reasoning he's given for those reads makes very little sense.

I did consider that he could have ended Nachomamma8's life very easily today. But you also have to consider the backlash the entire Nachomamma8 wagon is going to receive if it goes through and he flips town. And, really, even if hammering isn't necessarily a scummy thing to do (though I don't know how he would have justified it), the first place most people would look after a hammer is at the person hammering.

So, yeah, he could have ended Nachomamma8 if he's scum. I don't think it would have been a wise decision.

[G[o]dz]

When I say insincere, I mean things like calling people obviously town when they really aren't and using it as a crutch to call people who disagree scummy (the former isn't as much a crime as the latter), as well as the points at which he chooses to do these things feeling slightly off. Combined with the reasoning he's given feeling pretty empty (which is the reason I asked to see his top three town/scum reads), I don't think he's genuinely forming reads. Forced is a word I don't really like using, but a lot of his play does feel forced.

And the fact that he is seemingly dodging giving the reads I requested is not making me feel any better about him.

[G[o]dz]

I've actually been digging through SirCakez games to try and find patterns that look the same as what he's done here in his town games.

Short story short, I'm still searching. If anyone with previous experience with him can point me to a game where they think he's played like he's playing now as town, that'd be super duper!

[Fate]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66021

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66116

he's surprising to mislynch or at least wagon from experience.

I'm not saying I have a hard townread on him or anything, but I Just hesistating scumreading him given how sketchy he comes off

[G[o]dz]

I'm probably not going to read the full 400 posts of that game but I did read the first 100 and the entirety of the other one. I'm not really seeing the similarities I'm looking for (particularly in the way he forms reads).

If he's town, the way he's both formed reads and talked about his reads in this game isn't like anything I've found of his past town games.

[Kagami]

Fate, let's imagine the spiffeh wagon arose because scum was worried that you or katsuki or kuribo would kill a partner. Who is the partner who was in danger?

[Kagami]

Btw, fate, you're not going to be king.

Spiffeh probably isn't either unless he wants to compromise on targets, which he should probably be doing right now to make it awkward for any scum on his wagon to move if his new choice is scum.

[SirCakez]

dz post_id=7941512 time=1464053779 user_id=15399 post_num=1036]

Godz it's because of posts I've quoted earlier and then your continued posting has given me scum vibes

Which posts? And do go on.

I'll get to this and the top three town/scum after this.

Those are not opinions on how to take advantage of the setup, those are simply opinions. Any opinion that is opposed to a king specifying their target is anti-town. I don't recall discussion on kings presenting a set of options and the town choosing between them, but since that necessarily occurs before election, I don't see how that's better than simply picking a victim and then electing a king to execute it.

I'm open to having a puppet King since we can just use the king for a sanity test.

I can see why you think Gaiden would make a good

King

puppet, but surely you also understand that not everyone shares your opinion.

I am a good King because I am a Just King.

Gaiden I'm interested - who would you execute if you had the option?

dz post_id=7942318 time=1464087463 user_id=15399 post_num=1072]Welp.

UNVOTE: Kastuku
VOTE: Fate

To be honest, I would be fine with almost anyone currently voting Spiffeh being dead today. Even though I know there have to be some town players somewhere in that mix. Any town read I might have had on Kamagi evaporated rather quickly. zakk is still probably town and I don't feel all that bad about Axelrod (who is still on the Spiffeh wagon in spirit), but everyone else cannot die sooner.

It'll be funny if it turns out that Nachomamma8 is scum, but with the composition of that wagon and his play in general, I don't really see that happening right now.

I do like this post from Godz though. Mirroring similar thoughts to mine and what looks like thought-out posting. Hmm.

[SXTLHGaiden]

Probably brian. i'm giving dgb a pass cause vla and i know how hard those are to come back from.
i might be interested in killing abr.

[SirCakez]

Ok so some of the posts I didn't like from Godz were

dz post_id=7934809 time=1463813526 user_id=15399 post_num=333]What? Your extremely non-committal "mkay spiffeh's scum" because he said he had two town reads? That was serious?

I find it ironic that you call my posts "shitposting" if that's the level of play I can expect from you.

dz post_id=7934813 time=1463813606 user_id=15399 post_num=334]

yeah ok now i just have a flat-out scumread on godz

Is this the part where I ask you to elaborate and you either (a) give an incredibly awful explanation and pretend it's not awful, or (b) pretend that you're not giving an explanation because I don't explain things either?

dz post_id=7934834 time=1463814181 user_id=15399 post_num=341]

i gave a read so that's like...

not true?

I also like that your defense to no scum hunting and no reads is "I gave

a read

so that's not true"

Like, literally, your whole rebuttal was "I gave a read" (a read which happened AFTER I mentioned my read on you, by the way, so the timeline of events is still in my favour).

dz post_id=7934841 time=1463814751 user_id=15399 post_num=343]"I have a could shots in mind" "Guess who" "It's zakk"

Yeah, I suppose if you squint, that could be interpreted as a scum read. My bad. You've given a read. Two if we count spiffeh. Now three if we count me. Zero town reads and zero explanations (wait, isn't it unhelpful to do that?) and, more to the point, zero scum hunting effort. If I'm being really, really, really generous, "does he always act like this?" is maybe scum hunting? Not really, though. So still, no.

You go off about how I'm not being helpful and shit. Where's your fucking explanations? You've been asked and refused to elaborate. Why are you "spamming" and "shitposting"?

Everything above is incredibly nitpicky and looks like scum who is fishing for a mislynch rather then someone who actually believe what they are saying. For example
"Like, literally, your whole rebuttal was "I gave a read" (a read which happened AFTER I mentioned my read on you, by the way, so the timeline of events is still in my favour)."
Using the "timeline of events" doesn't look like something town would bring up to push someone with.

dz post_id=7934602 time=1463806786 user_id=15399 post_num=266]I don't really have any sort of town read on Kastuki and think there's actually a greater-than-average chance that he could be a scum.

I will probably never vote Fate, even though he may very well be town, I just do not think he really seems like a very good player. Also, given his statement about cupcakes, I cannot see him as someone who has good judgment.

I would be fine with voting kuribo to be king since he could very well be town and I trust his judgment more than either of the running candidates (which, as of right now, looks worse than the presidential race in terms of possible choices).

This post was just bizarre. "I think there's a great chance Katsuki could be scum, Fate could be town, kuribo could be town". Like, where is any of this coming from? It looks like it was made up on the spot.

dz post_id=7934819 time=1463813735 user_id=15399 post_num=337]Kastuki, I have a single request:

If you become King, please strongly consider making Antihero dead. For me. Thanks. I don't care if you're a scum. Just do it and I'll vote you every day I'm alive.

And then I don't like this post because he's offering to voteslave himself in exchange for an Anti execution? That's not a townie offer and that's not a townie viewpoint on Anti, there's zero consideration of if he could flip town or not, just "execute him!".

[Kagami]

why were you voting for fate, cakez? Katsuki was likely going to lynch godz, iirc.

[SirCakez]

I just checked through Kats's ISO and I don't see a mention of a Godz execution?
Working on the top town/scum

[Kagami]

Maybe not likely, but seemed a likely possibility to me at the time. On review, I guess it's uncertain, but if I wanted godz to be lynched, I'd be campaigning for katsuki king or lobbying for anti-king over Fate.

[SirCakez]

My top three town are kuribo, Anti and Brian.

-Kuribo has had consistently strong scumhunting that differs strongly from what I saw of him as scum in Gumball, where he spent most of his time yelling rather then scumhunting. For example, I liked his Godz analysis in 379, the push on the lurkers in 439, and the worry of buddying the leaders in 707.
-I really liked how Anti reacted to being tunneled by Godz, for example his analysis of Godz's push in 329 and 342. And then his replace out felt like exasperated town and I really liked his self-reads analysis in 722.
-Brian is largely a meta read like I said earlier, his level of engagement and scumhunting is much better then what I saw of his scum game. For example, his discussion of King targets in 182 and 233, his analysis in 648 and 714, and his analysis of the Spiffeh wagon in 1056.

Top three scum are Godz, zakk and ABR
-Godz looks very scummy for his push on Anti and assorted other posting that I outlined in 1087.
-Zakk has loads of bizarre and scummy posts with next to no actual scumhunting, for example his desire to hammer Kats in 235, his expression of not caring in 238, a random unexplained Godz townread in 297, and his basically hand waving of game events in 962.
-I've seen ABR's town game in Saga Frontier and Song of Ice and Fire uPick and this is definitely not it. What little he's posted has been vague and unexplained. I know he's capable of more.

[Kagami]

New dream that won't come true because people value self-importance and superficial notions of how to play over victory: SirCakez-king lynches Godz.

[G[o]dz]

Everything above is incredibly nitpicky

What does this mean?

Using the "timeline of events" doesn't look like something town would bring up to push someone with

You don't think the order in which events happen is important, or you don't think it's something a town player would mention if they think there's an inconsistency based on the timeline?

Either way, you're wrong.

Like, where is any of this coming from?

... They were the three major candidates being discussed for the purposes of electing a king at the time.

And then I don't like this post because he's offering to voteslave himself in exchange for an Anti execution? That's not a townie offer and that's not a townie viewpoint on Anti, there's zero consideration of if he could flip town or not, just "execute him!"

Assuming I was completely serious in what I was saying, what does scum have to gain by doing that?

[G[o]dz]

Btw, fate, you're not going to be king.

I don't really see how you're going to stop it, though.

why were you voting for fate, cakez? Katsuki was likely going to lynch godz, iirc.

Kastuki was never going to shoot me. Other than the fact that I don't think he has the guts to do it even if he's scum, it would be inconsistent with how he's supposedly been reading me for the entire game, barring very recently where he seems to imply he thinks I'm doing things I'd do as scum.

[G[o]dz]

Zakk has loads of bizarre and scummy posts with next to no actual scumhunting, for example his desire to hammer Kats in 235, his expression of not caring in 238, a random unexplained Godz townread in 297, and his basically hand waving of game events in 962.

None of these things are "scummy" - at best, they're neutral.

I suppose you could argue "next to no scum hunting" is "scummy" but even then, not really (even apart from the fact he's been V/LA most of the game now).

[G[o]dz]

New dream that won't come true because people value self-importance and superficial notions of how to play over victory: SirCakez-king lynches Godz.

I wish you all the best in trying to get me killed. Frankly, I don't think you're a strong or influential enough player to get it done, but good luck nonetheless.

[Kagami]

Interesting...

[FakeGod]

Cephrir replaces Antihero.

Please welcome Cephrir.

[FakeGod]

bump